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When did Assimilation become a four letter word?
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dstieger Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 10:21 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
“I also happen to believe that the Hispanics should work harder at assimilation. That’s one of the things I’ve been saying for a long time. You know, they ought not to be just codified in their communities but make sure that all their kids are learning to speak English, and that they feel comfortable in the communities. And that’s going to take outreach on both sides, frankly.”
-Tom Browkaw 1/27/19

Poor guy is getting blasted. Unfortunately, he's already bending over backwards to apologize and walk back. Wish he could have stood behind it before breaking


I've always felt that someone can have a 'compassionate' immigration position and still desire increased assimilation.....
dstieger wrote:
4/30/2018: ...... I am generally optimistic, but I don't see an honest, respectful, national conversation on immigration happening in my lifetime. I do think we missed a big opportunity when we took a pass on pressing for English as a single, national language - required in all official dealings, documents, etc. I don't think that's racist. I think that its important for communication, and yes - even assimilation. I think its ok to expect immigrants to conform to some (most?) things American, including language. In which Spanish speaking country would you be fully accepted if you refused to speak Spanish and expected accommodations be made so you wouldn't have to bother?
rfenst Online
#2 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 10:40 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
[quote=dstieger]In which Spanish speaking country would you be fully accepted if you refused to speak Spanish and expected accommodations be made so you wouldn't have to bother?/quote]

We differ from most countries because we are truly a "melting pot" and most immigrants likely live in communities populated by those who have the same cultural ties and speak the same language. Besides, there is a First Amendment issue here...
dstieger Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 10:57 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Constitutional questions might have been moot had we gotten the English Language Amendment 40 years ago. But aside from that, even designation of English as official by legislation might pass muster for official and legal business. Even that alone might go a long ways towards integrating or assimilation. I could be way off, but I think it would have been good for the country
Mr. Jones Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
Poor Mr. Brokaw....the guy makes a MEEK AND MILD statement...which is 100% TRUE...and he gets lambasted by A-HOLES LEFTISTS with their panties all in a bunch...

If I was Brokaw...I'd tell everyone of the complainers...

"besame el culo, perra's !!! "

If I was a public figure I would stop ALL INTERVIEWS AND NO SOCIAL MEDIA AT ALL...

F*K EVERBODY AND THEN SOME...
dstieger Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 11:21 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Mr. Jones wrote:
...

"besame el culo, perra's !!! "
...

How about once more...in English...for us privileged racists, please?
Mr. Jones Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 11:35 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
For stieny :

"Kiss my Ass...bitches" ^^^^
Mr. Jones Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
^^^^Sorta' ??? Goes with what I told the coward FBI-SSG AGENTS after my run in with "ROSIE" THE HIT WOMAN AT THE LEESPORT FARMERS & FLEA MARKET IN 2016?

PARAPHRASED:

"IF YOU FEATURE ME SPORTIN' A PUTTER ...I DON'T NEED A CANE....
&
I DON'T GOLF....B.I.T.C.H.E.S."

i.e. my putter is MY C.C.W. PERMIT
dstieger Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
C/P from updated CNN article on this...

Some journalists on social media quickly criticized Brokaw's comments. Aura Bogado, an investigative immigration reporter at Reveal, said Brokaw was "arguing classic white supremacist talking points in a deeply racist rant on national television."
Julio Ricardo Varela, the founder of LatinoRebels.com, said the broadcast was difficult to watch.
"It really was a punch in the gut to a lot of people," he said. "It was not only factually incorrect, it was also xenophobia in action."
victor809 Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 12:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Meh... There are fine people on both sides I'm sure.

I doubt this is what pissed off most people, but what always bothers me most about these statements is that they're usually predicated on treating a minority as a single monolithic group "all Hispanics are like X"... It's usually wrong...

What evidence does he have that Hispanics are teaching their kids English at a rate different from other immigrant groups?

And then to paint the entire "Hispanic immigrant" group with a broad paintbrush as not assimilating...

But i suspect other people are mad about it from other angles.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Not so sure about the fine people, but plenty of candy asses to go around...

On one hand, we got plenty of white kids that can't properly use the language, we don't need brown kids who can't use it either...

But on the other hand, those illiterate white kids are uppity af... Maybe we bring in some illiterate brown kids to replace them and Kentucky will change its attitude...
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 1:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
rfenst wrote:
[quote=dstieger]In which Spanish speaking country would you be fully accepted if you refused to speak Spanish and expected accommodations be made so you wouldn't have to bother?/quote]

We differ from most countries because we are truly a "melting pot" and most immigrants likely live in communities populated by those who have the same cultural ties and speak the same language. Besides, there is a First Amendment issue here...


Just wondering why the left embraces the first amendment except when it does fit their narrative.
delta1 Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 1:50 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Hispanic kids who are born in the US have no problems assimilating...most US public schools have ESL programs in their curriculum...so unless Hispanics are keeping their kids from going to school, this is not a real issue...

it's frustrating sometimes when I go into a business establishment staffed mostly with Spanish speakers, Korean speakers, Chinese, Japanese...name it...even tho they try, their English is so accented as to be unintelligible...but this is SoCal, so you live with it...

why get all upset and demand that we have instant change when the natural process will fix it over time...
dstieger Offline
#13 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 1:57 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I believe that is probably true. However, my interpretation if assimilation goes well beyond speaking English. At any rate, children born here aren't exactly immigrants.
dstieger Offline
#14 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 1:58 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I get what you are saying, though delta. Brokaw didn't say immigrants....I did. Its true that most all immigrants increased assimilation in subsequent generations
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
This has been going on for centuries.
There are places in SF where Chinese is the main language... Hell, the Drs office I went to was primarily for Chinese. I don't think I've ever found myself caring...

I doubt he's as bad as all the groups are making him out to be... But why would he single out the Hispanics for this? I can see why they're miffed.

Someone pulled up a quote from early in us history, someone was writing the same thing about those terrible Germans in Philadelphia.

Small enclaves of people speaking another language has not damaged our country's ability to run smoothly yet. It won't in the foreseeable future.
dstieger Offline
#16 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:

Small enclaves of people speaking another language has not damaged our country's ability to run smoothly yet. It won't in the foreseeable future.

Possible that my perspective is part of the problem, but I don't think it is small enclaves...as it may have been in generations past. There are a lot of communities where I now have difficulty finding someone conversationally fluent in English
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Dude.
That wasn't a "doctor's" office.
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:27 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Is it still a first amendment right if we can't understand wtf they're saying?

Asking for a friend.
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:39 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185

Brokenjaw is lucky that the day began with the SJW's on his side. He'll weather this storm, especially with ample backtracking. He might even throw in an anti-Trump thingy here and there to remind them who he is.

In the meantime, we stand as a nation too afraid to speak a plain truth even when bold facts prove it to be correct.
Forget SoCa. We KNOW that's mexico north.
We've got neighborhoods in every major city where English is a distant second.
used to be it didn't matter.
My best friends mother knew very little English. Dutch Indonesian.
But she never once expect everyone else to cater to her. She had family that spoke English and she eventually learned enough words to get by.
Schools are already burdened in most areas that need ESL courses. To demand MORE from the public while choosing to do LESS individually or as a community is unforgivable.

I don't mind when it's difficult to understand someone. Whether from Dan Quail's Latin America, or from Asia, or from Alabama.
But I do mind when they make their inability to communicate MY problem.
And if I weren't such a submissive wallflower, I'd let them know.
victor809 Offline
#20 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dstieg...
I gotta call bs on that.

Maybe you're a different person than I am...but I have never been in a part of town randomly looking for someone who I can have a conversation with....

But I guess my point is, you can still transact business. I've walked into stores and purchased items without saying a word. In fact that's how I buy things in both Chinatown and at CVS down the street.
dstieger Offline
#21 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:47 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:

Maybe you're a different person than I am...

I sure as **** hope so
victor809 Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yeah yeah yeah... Now go run off to random neighborhoods and ask strangers to talk to you about their day.... :)
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
Well, by all rights you white dudes shoulda learned Comanche before moving to Oklahoma... But ya didn't.. Not talking
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hahahaha.... Thank you for perspective drafter....
dstieger Offline
#25 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Jeez, Victor, you one crotchety, argumentative jack wagon. You lived in DC and SF in recent years...are you going to suggest that you didn't periodically find yourself in areas where you had difficulty communicating in English?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:55 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Drafter - LOL
dstieger Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889

Great point, X. Teach us a little....I'm game
opelmanta1900 Offline
#28 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:57 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
dstieger wrote:
Jeez, Victor, you one crotchety, argumentative jack wagon. You lived in DC and SF in recent years...are you going to suggest that you didn't periodically find yourself in areas where you had difficulty communicating in English?

Victor speaks the universal language of sidewalk masturbation...
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I am argumentative... And I said already that I spent plenty of time in locations/businesses where most people didn't speak English or where it wasn't their primary language.

I just said I dont have a conversation with people, either in those places, or in a suburb in MO... Thats why I don't see it as a problem.

victor809 Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Opel!
Sidewalk masturbating is NOT a universal language!

Haven't you ever heard??? "Different strokes for different folks"
dstieger Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
victor809 wrote:


I just said I dont have a conversation with people, either in those places, or in a suburb in MO...


Then again....if they foresaw that result....maybe they were just faking
Abrignac Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,264
Another reason I’m happy I don’t live in a large city. Here most everyone who speaks English will say hello or some other casual greeting when passing someone. Men will open doors for women, families or other men regardless of race. People will go out of their way to help strangers, etc...
rfenst Online
#33 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:13 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,261
Abrignac wrote:
Another reason I’m happy I don’t live in a large city. Here most everyone who speaks English will say hello or some other casual greeting when passing someone. Men will open doors for women, families or other men regardless of race. People will go out of their way to help strangers, etc...


Orlando is still pretty much like that.
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Missed my point... But amusing joke.
victor809 Offline
#35 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Not sure anyone needs to be able to speak English well to give casual greetings, open doors or help strangers.

Also have never seen someone not open or open a door based on race....

On the other hand, it was that crap that I hated about living in Wisconsin. People being polite and making small talk when they actually dislike each other is just wasting both people's time.
RMAN4443 Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 4:00 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Being polite and cordial is a waste of time?Not talking I don't know how you do it, but it really doesn't take all that much time in my worldThink
tailgater Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


... People being polite and making small talk when they actually dislike each other is just wasting both people's time.


So how is that weather out in SF?
victor809 Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 4:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bite me.
DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 4:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
Laugh
victor809 Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 5:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
See all the time wasted? Could have just gone about our respective business....
victor809 Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 5:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Can we get onto the more important topic... Which is dstiegs terrible counting? 4 letters???
RMAN4443 Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Maybe I'll get ramen....

Morning Shana!



victor809 wrote:
Poorly ram...

We're in a backup position on a house, waiting to hear if their lending falls through.

Then theres another one which was technically off the market, but the woman had liked it when it was listed 6mo ago, so we had the realtor hunt down the guy listing it and set up a video conference call so he could show us the inside. We may actually buy that one without ever setting foot in it if we don't get the other.


Careful victor...people might mistake you of being polite and exchanging small talk, even though you dislike them and are wasting your time and theirs.....nah, who would think that???Think
delta1 Offline
#43 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
those who fail to assimilate will be left behind...

I don't know of any member of a minority race or group who were born here who identify solely with their parent's or ancestor's home country...I have always believed I am an American, not a Chinese (I've never set foot in China, tho I would like to visit one day), even though many people have treated me as different from "real Americans" and told me to go back where I came from...

that is a bigger problem than first generation non-English speakers making it hard on English speakers...
victor809 Offline
#44 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 5:59 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Rman... No one dislikes ram.

No one.
RMAN4443 Offline
#45 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 6:12 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
victor809 wrote:
Rman... No one dislikes ram.

No one.

That's why I said people might think that,... and then nah, who would think that???

I've been told there's a lot to be said for reading comprehension...I can't quite place where I heard that stated...Think


Speyside Offline
#46 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 9:05 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Freedom of speech is less free than it used to be. To many people get their panties in a wad if anyone says something that doesn't fit their belief system.

In this instance Browkaw is speaking in a common sense. Yet he is getting major blowback.

WTF, an opinion may be contrary to certain groups, but this is America, we fought and fight for our freedoms, the groups that want to limit our freedoms are un American. They need a history lesson. Trotskyists and Leninists aren't what America is about.

I might not like your opinion, but I will fight 24/7 for the right you have to express your opinion. In all honesty I strongly disagree with laws about hate crimes. I think they create double jeopardy and are unconstitutional. But limiting freedom of speech is truely a hateful crime.
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 9:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,538
Thanks Obama.. Mad
delta1 Offline
#48 Posted: Mon, Jan 28 2019, 10:35 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
butthead
tailgater Offline
#49 Posted: Tue, Jan 29 2019, 8:58 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:


... (I've never set foot in China, tho I would like to visit one day), .


That wasn't you arm-in-arm with Adroomi?
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