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Last post 5 years ago by delta1. 48 replies replies.
And these are the Good Guys..??
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
A third man has been charged after two U.S. Marine Corps reservists were assaulted by an Antifa mob just blocks away from a “We the People” rally in Philadelphia more than two months ago.

Joseph Alcoff, a 37-year-old who is believed to be the Antifa leader in Washington, D.C., was charged earlier this month with aggravated assault, ethnic intimidation and conspiracy – all felonies – and other charges for his involvement in the November 2018 attack, Philly Mag reported.

He joins codefendants Thomas Massey and Tom Keenan, who were allegedly all part of a large group of left-wing Antifa activists who began beating Alejandro Godinez and Luis Torres after mistaking him them for participants in the “We the People” rally in Old City.

Alcoff had pleaded not guilty and is currently out on bail, the magazine reported.


The two men, who were not wearing their uniforms the day of the attack, said they were asked if they were “Proud Boys” – an allusion to one of the right-wing groups behind the Nov. 17 rally.

After that interaction, they were approached by approximately 10 other people – men and women, some masked and some unmasked – who began attacking the Marines: punching and kicking them, using mace and hurling slurs and other insults such as calling them “Nazis” and “white supremacists.”

Torres told Fox News in December that it was an “extreme irony” that he and Godinez were called “white supremacists” as they are both of Hispanic descent.

“We found it very ironic and confusing as well. I don’t know who would look at us and suppose white supremacist, neo-Nazi or anything like that,” he said.

Film at 11... Think
Mr. Jones Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,423
Somebody called me a deuce the other day...
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Just to confirm, these are they guys fighting the Illinois Nazis in Charlotte right..?? The ones everyone got pissed at Trump for not praising..?? Huh
ZRX1200 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
Hypocrisy and gaslighting, the modern left at work.......

Good little brown shirts.
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Apparently there was a miscommunication. The victims indicated to the mob that they were proud boys.

I wouldn't criticize any of you guys for punching nazis, KKK or proud boys.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Congrats... That makes you very much like a member of the kkk or Nazi party... They too like to take large groups of people and ok violence against them... We've come a long way haven't we...
victor809 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Well, significant difference Opel...
I see nothing wrong with violence against Nazis KKK etc. Because you have to choose to be in that group. And you choose to be in those groups for very specific reasons. The groups themselves advocate violence against people for reasons which the people have no choice about.


Also, remember, "wrong" and legal are two different words. I still think the antifa guys need to be charged with the crimes they committed (especially since they were too stupid to get the correct people). But I'm not gonna criticize someone for violence against Nazis. Especially if they're willing to accept the punishment.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Congrats... You're just like the Nazis and the kkk... they don't understand how ignorant they are either... But hey, maybe you're right... Maybe the only way to put an end to violence and stupidity is violence and stupidity...
victor809 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Now you just sound like a lib with your whole "violence is bad" concept.

Violence is acceptable when it comes to certain viewpoints as far as I'm concerned. Viewpoints like "I'm homeless" or "chanting Jews will not replace us is a great idea!" Are among those.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Violence is ok then because why? Because it solves a problem? It does not...

Unless you're talking about violence that completely exterminates an entire group of people down to the last member - you know, like the Nazis attempted - then violence begets violence begets violence begets violence begets violence etc...
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
....why would we be trying to solve a problem?
bgz Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Opel, you do realize you're trying to convince a known bum kicker that violence is bad right?
opelmanta1900 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
You can't claim to be against air pollution but in favor of burning trash... You take the product and the byproduct alike...

So when you say you're ok with violence against Nazis, knowing full well that the result will be emboldened violence from Nazis, then what you're really saying is you're ok with the violence on both sides, there's good people on both sides...

It's not my personal opinion nor one that I can bring myself to respect, but you have powerful company... Again, congrats...
victor809 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I don't think I've ever criticized Nazis for being violent...
I am critical of their belief structure which causes them to select a group of victims based on something which is not logical, and is based on a person's race.

I rarely am against violence simply because it's violence.
Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
victor809 wrote:
Apparently there was a miscommunication. The victims indicated to the mob that they were proud boys.

I wouldn't criticize any of you guys for punching nazis, KKK or proud boys.


From what I read weeks ago here locally in Philly, and an interview with one of the victims, you're not 100% correct. In the interview, the victim said that the ANTIFI cowards asked the Marines if "they where proud" (never said Proud Boys). The Marines replied "of course we're proud, we're Marines". But of course I know some of the left like to leave out some of the dialogue, in a vain attempt to "justify" criminal acts. Actual facts are such a bitch.

Either way, what does it matter if they had said they where Proud Boys? Does that give one the right to beat and hospitalize them? Why are some leftists so damn violent? A bunch of you stated on social media that you wanted to beat and/or kill the Covington teens for a smirk and daring to wear MEGA hats. From some of your posts here, it seemed that you where fine with that too.

Would you be OK with conservatives beating and hospitalizing ANTIFA members, simply because they identified as ANTIFA? How about beating and/or killing folk for simply wearing "F*CK TRUMP" atire in public? If you condone violence against one group, you have to be accepting of the same type of violence against the other. Anything less is pure hypocricy.

David
bgz Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I didn't know who the **** the proud boys were, just had to look it up.

The only thing I can see on their site for why ANTIFA would kick the hell out of them is that they're not leftists.

They're not racist, nor do they let racists and nazis in.

They're not alt-right (says so right in their text).

They do not discriminate based on race, religion or sexual orientation.

I'm not really getting what the hate is against them... they just seem to be conservative at their core.

One thing that got me though is members aren't allowed to jack off... lol, how are they supposed to enforce that?

I didn't look into it in great detail, just looked up who they were.
VaMtnMan Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2007
Posts: 3,743
So on the list of people that it is ok to just beat up on are:
1. Nazis
2. KKK
3. Proud Boys
4. White males wearing a MAGA baseball cap
5. Homeless people


Did I miss any group of people?
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hey now. I never said it was ok to beat up on MAGA hat wearing azzholes. Just ok to make assumptions about them.

The rest is accurate.

(Caveat... One always has to be willing to accept the consequences of one's actions)
victor809 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bgz... Whatever the proud boys website claims (yes I see their site) compare with the activities that they get in trouble for
victor809 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Their guys keep showing up at Nazi rallies.

So... Not white supremacists, but really comfortable marching next to them.
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DP... I saw that. Sounds to me like a miscommunication. That's not terribly unlikely with a mob. Again... The mob was apparently looking to go after white supremacists... They asked these Marines with they were associated with that group of white supremacists. The Marines didn't understand the question, and answered in the affirmative with additional information. Since the Marines didn't understand the mob, I doubt the mob understood the answer.

As I said above, those who committed the violence should be arrested and tried. But I'm hard pressed to say the mob is bad for wanting to be violent against white supremacists.

(Second caveat. I've always believed that if I find myself in a group of people all doing the same thing, I've probably made a bad decision. Mobs frequently end up doing something wrong, because no one is thinking any more)
Phil222 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
victor809 wrote:
if I find myself in a group of people all doing the same thing, I've probably made a bad decision.

Ha! Agreed. Cool
bgz Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Just curious, if white supremacists get in a fight with black supremacists, who do you root for?

Or do you just hope to see a good fight?
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'd do the same thing I do on a daily basis... Hope for a giant meteor strike.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
I hope to see a good fight which ends in a tie to the death. I have no tolerance for people with no tolerance.

Yes, the hypocrisy is strong with this one
ZRX1200 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
Good way to tell if you’re a racist is to change a few words.

Apparently there was a miscommunication. The victims indicated that they were of Mexican decent,

I wouldn’t criticize any of you guys for punching Mexicans, because I’m a racist hypocritical POS.
Mr. Jones Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,423
Back in the early 1980's...

The Israelis paid phenomenal money to find Nazi's in South America...and even more to....
Nevermind...Roseanne roseanna Dana...

American born " wanna Nazi's " lack the vicious Arian blood line that the true German born ones have ingrained...

and...
when real nazi's are on the run...
well...
you never... ever.... will witness a more cunning or cautious human ...
" in the wild "... They are truly cunning animals ....
at their finest....all five senses are at peak performance 24/7/365...
MACS Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,776
So... antifa acting like fascists again. Got it.
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So I had to look up "fascist" because I was confused by your statement Macs.

I'm still confused.

Fascist- a form of radical authoritarian ultranationalism (huh? The antifa are authoritarian ultranationalists?), characterized by dictatorial power (uh... The antifa don't have any power, especially not dictatorial), forcible suppression of the opposition (ok, I think they try to do that) and strong regimentation of society (hah!) and of the economy (uh huh) which came to prominence in the early 20th century.

Of all the characteristics which apparently fascists are supposed to have, you can match maybe one with antifa. There is probably a lot better word to describe the antifa than "fascist". I know you want to use this one because it makes you feel warm and fuzzy to think you're pointing out hypocrisy.... But accuracy first please.
delta1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Fox (con) News has a different definition...American thugs (political POV irrelevant) who like to confront "white supremacist" American thugs in public...

they are labelled "leftists/libs" because cons believe only libs are anti fascists/anti-Nazis/anti-white supremacists...this is borne out by how con media provides positive media coverage of white supremacist public events...

in con media, Nazis = good guys; and opposition = antifa = bad guys
bgz Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Obviously they are not a government, but you don't really hear about individuals in antifa, you here about the mobs.

They will violently attack anyone who doesn't agree with them.

They stick with the message of their organization (and will violently attack anyone who disagrees with them).

They seem to not put any value to their supporters other than to support their group ideologies.

They show up in large packs in masks to hide their individuality and put the focus on the group instead of the individual. (almost like a bundle of sticks).

As an organization, they seem to be pretty fascist at their core to me.
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Meh.
I'm not saying they're great.
But I bet there's a lot better words to use to describe them. (Thugs isn't inaccurate... Violent mob... )
victor809 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Fascist really misses way too many points to be accurate.
dstieger Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
bgz wrote:

They will violently attack anyone who doesn't agree with them.

They stick with the message of their organization (and will violently attack anyone who disagrees with them).

They seem to not put any value to their supporters other than to support their group ideologies.

Interesting. I dismissed them as not having an organization, a mission or message, beyond..."We oppose anything and everything, especially if it is government sanctioned." I thought they just protest for the sake of protesting
victor809 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think they have a loose organization. Like the wall St protesters a few years ago. Probably some of the same people.

I dunno. Maybe I should follow some of their Twitter accounts and see how organized they are.

At least the spelling would probably be better than the trumpenfeurher account.
bgz Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I just looked up the leader of Antifa... apparently he's a communist and wants to eliminate the idea of personal property. I doubt if he's the top top guy... but it's all I could find.

Not quite fascism... but with a man with ideologies like that... it doesn't take much to get from communist to fascist... there are differences, not much of one to an outsider looking in, but there are differences.

From an organizational standpoint, it still looks like fascism to me.

Oh, the dude's name is Joseph Alcoff if you didn't already know.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Louisa May's nephew!!??
delta1 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
I heard he is Amy's second cousin, on her daddy's side...
DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
I heard he was one of the good guys.. Mellow
bgz Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I didn't know commies can be good guys.
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
if not for the commies, we woulda lost WWII
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Delta sure loves him some Russians... Mellow
bgz Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
^Yep...

Here I thought the lefties hated the Russians.
delta1 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
just the white ones...Wink
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
OhMyGod
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
Lefties can hate or love them.

Righties are only allowed to hate them but not their politics.
victor809 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Such a weak little victim....
delta1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
DrafterX wrote:
OhMyGod


for some strange reason, Drafter, I just don't like the feel of cream in my mouth...
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