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House Ways and Means Chairman Subpoenas Trump Tax Returns
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teedubbya Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 7:16 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We will find out. I don't think the executive branch can unilaterally ignore the other two branches nor should anyone from either party support or root for that. the fact law enforcement and detention fall under the realm of the executive branch doesn't mean they are above the law. To many police forces believe this.

Congress will get what they want is my prediction.
teedubbya Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 7:17 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Not just limited to taxes but the blanket stonewalling.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 10:29 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
I don't think the executive branch can unilaterally ignore the other two branches nor should anyone from either party support or root for that.


I agree with this.

Doesn't make the subpoena any more legitimate. It's just the latest punchline to the same old f*cking joke, to be honest. And if it shows nothing there WILL be another punchline propped up as the most urgent thing needed to thwart Trump.
But regardless, the executive branch should NOT have the authority to ignore the laws as written.
And that should never change.
teedubbya Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 10:56 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
nothing new about the punchline as you refer to it from either party. Politics certainly happen. And sometimes it accidentally serves a purpose. Other times not.

Whats new is the executive branch defining it as such and determining what the other branch can and cant do based on what is convenient or not convenient with to them. If that becomes the norm the executive in power can do whatever they want and there is no fear of checks or balances. Next time it may not be the person you want or support. I think the clock may run out but the courts will kill much of the nonsense. Hopefully future presidents will not do this crap.

And to be clear the true TDS is thinking everything you do is ok (thus uninvestigateable) and discounting all opposition as a mental illness or a punchline and ignoreable. Using that logic to paraphrase a great scholar the powers of the president are very substantial and will not be questioned.
gummy jones Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 10:58 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
seems like a good use of resources
teedubbya Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 11:00 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
gummy jones wrote:
seems like a good use of resources



Would you support the President from either party declaring Congress' use of resources as not being good thus ignore able based on their assessment?
gummy jones Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 11:04 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
teedubbya wrote:
Would you support the President from either party declaring Congress' use of resources as not being good thus ignore able based on their assessment?



i just said it seems like a good use

very pressing

havent read through the thread

didnt render my support or lackthereof
teedubbya Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
to be honest I'm not sure it is a good use. I think he should release his tax forms, but I don't think what congress is doing will even do that let alone "should". I just don't think the executive branch has the luxury of defining what Congress should and shouldn't do. I think they will lose.

And until the law is changed he can choose to not release them. His prerogative. The same is true with school transcripts or the made up live birth/ birth certificate blah blah blah Politics happen.

But I am not inclined to cede more power to the Presidency regardless of occupant.
gummy jones Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 11:15 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
teedubbya wrote:


But I am not inclined to cede more power to the Presidency regardless of occupant.


agreed
dstieger Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 11:21 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
teedubbya wrote:
. The same is true with school transcripts or the made up live birth/ birth certificate blah blah blah Politics happen.


It was a stupid exercise, but there was a backing argument with some Constitutional validity


Not so with the tax returns
teedubbya Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 11:27 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
dstieger wrote:
It was a stupid exercise, but there was a backing argument with some Constitutional validity


Not so with the tax returns



Not really. He didn't need to prove it publicly any more that the tax forms need to be public. In both instances there are internal audits in place. He was born here. It was validated before taking office. Nothing more needed to happen. And even when the birth certificate was made public some idiots argued it was a forgery or that they were experts and it was the short form etc. Our current prez was one of them.

I'm not saying either instance is right. Both are wrong. But the presidents is not all powerful and never should be regardless of party


I think I get what you are saying though. What could possibly be in the tax forms that would disqualify him constitutionally. You are right there.
Abrignac Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 12:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
Not saying that Trump should ignore Congress. Just pointing out the reality of the situation. That said, I think subpoenaing a sitting President’s tax return absent any high degree of reasonable suspicion it a very slippery slope. At the moment it’s a fishing expedition. Do we really want to go down that rabbit hole? I predict in the near future the need for a super majority on any legislative action. The Senate used to be a legislative blow off valve for radical legislation. Before long consensus legislation will be a dinosaur.
teedubbya Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I agree with most of what you say abrig. The senate is no longer the deliberative body. They are not doing their job and have become as bad as the house. I blame mconnel and reid (dont care about spelling). ol mitch reminds me of granny from the beverly hillbillies. They don't even pretend to want to do the right thing anymore. I don't really blame Trump. He's just taking advantage of what they are handing to him.

Winning and power is more important than country. The same is true for some in here (maybe not the power part lol) We have been heading down this path for awhile (the supreme court shenanigans has been disgraceful). It's about time someone take it seriously.

As for the returns themselves, I don't think its a great idea but it isn't up to the Prez to decide that. You can certainly let your congressman know your view. More importantly to me is all the other stonewalling and ignoring subpoenas. I hope it costs some cabinate members dearly.
delta1 Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
so there is nothing suspicious about:

US intel discovered and informed Trump that the Russians wanted to defeat Hillary and elect Trump, and were taking active measures to do so as soon as Trump was nominated...

Trump campaign minions cozied up to and attempted to, but not quite, conspired with the Russians to influence the 2016 election....

Trump and his minions continued to lie about these contacts, until they were shown to be liars...

Russia wanted to alleviate the US imposed sanctions that were hurting their economy (keeping the oligarchs from getting richer)

Members of Trump's campaign had ties to Russian oligarchs who wanted sanctions lifted...

that Trump was trying for decades to get a Trump resort project built in Russia, which was in the approval process...and continued to hide his activities related to this project ...which continued during his campaign...

Trump made public pro-Russia statements throughout his campaign and continued to be a Putin/Russian ally when he became POTUS

no probable cause for over-sight, no probable cause to look into compromise, no probable cause to question if corrupt intent exists...Trump has proven he is only concerned for the well-being of America, not for his own personal interests...

not even close to Whitewater...



wow
frankj1 Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I find it worth a peek...
Abrignac Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,273
delta1 wrote:
so there is nothing suspicious about:

US intel discovered and informed Trump that the Russians wanted to defeat Hillary and elect Trump, and were taking active measures to do so as soon as Trump was nominated...

Trump campaign minions cozied up to and attempted to, but not quite, conspired with the Russians to influence the 2016 election....

Trump and his minions continued to lie about these contacts, until they were shown to be liars...

Russia wanted to alleviate the US imposed sanctions that were hurting their economy (keeping the oligarchs from getting richer)

Members of Trump's campaign had ties to Russian oligarchs who wanted sanctions lifted...

that Trump was trying for decades to get a Trump resort project built in Russia, which was in the approval process...and continued to hide his activities related to this project ...which continued during his campaign...

Trump made public pro-Russia statements throughout his campaign and continued to be a Putin/Russian ally when he became POTUS

no probable cause for over-sight, no probable cause to look into compromise, no probable cause to question if corrupt intent exists...Trump has proven he is only concerned for the well-being of America, not for his own personal interests...

not even close to Whitewater...



wow


Two words, Clinton Foundation.
teedubbya Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 8:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Two more. So what. Two more that’s lame.

Investigate the foundation. Investigate trump. The chips will fall.
frankj1 Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, May 16 2019, 8:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
section 6103 tax code.
any citizen.
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