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tailgater Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
here are some facts about late term abortions, defined as post viability, or after 20 - 24 weeks, generally...

Eight states allow them, but only with medical reasons including gestational physical anomalies and mother's health...

only two states, Colorado and New Mexico allow abortions up to 32 weeks; Washington DC allows them up to 36 weeks...done on "case by case basis"


https://www.christianpost.com/news/7-states-already-allow-abortion-up-to-birth-not-just-new-york.html


"Despite abortion up to the time of birth being legal in several states and the nation’s capital, there are only five clinics nationwide that perform late-term abortions. Two are in states that allow abortion up to birth and three are in states that prohibit late-term abortion but allow exemptions (California, Maryland and Ohio)".


If there's even just ONE clinic that performs abortions up to birth, then abortions up to birth are a thing.

It's just too bad that the clinics don't demand the women to complete a survey so we can satisfy JadeRose's need to know.

frankj1 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
tailgater wrote:
So when you're provided with statistics that don't prove your point, you decide to add an imaginary caveat?

If illegal abortions in those backwards states are so common, why the fuss about the new Alabama law?


I was politely showing you that the statistics you provided for me did not prove your point!
They did prove mine.

I'll ignore the moving goal posts. No field goal attempt tried, I picked up the touchdown.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I was politely showing you that the statistics you provided for me did not prove your point!
They did prove mine.



Huh?

You claimed that abortion rates would be higher if "access" to birth control were limited.
Yet the abortion rates in a state with better access to birth control is three times that of a state with seemingly poor access.

Here's another page from a different site.
https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/states/
Figures are similar to what I posted, and the numbers your claim about "access to birth control".


Doesn't mean we should limit access.
Just that we shouldn't use incorrect assumptions to support that agenda.

tailgater Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Moving the goal post?

Frank, you said (and I quote) "pretty sure greater access to birth control lowers the abortion rates".
The statistics show otherwise.

Moving the goal post?
It's like you don't read what you type, then blame me when you don't understand.
That's a typical liberal reaction. Don't become a typical liberal.

frankj1 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
you missed the word "legal" on your link and interpreted the states with more legal abortions as proving that better access for women meant way more abortions.

the goal posts moved when asked why the fuss if Alabama has lots of illegal abortions...seriously? You know what's been the danger of that going back before either of us were, um, conceived.

However, my real concern is no one recognizing the only way to lower or eliminate abortions. The solution is prevention, and I did provide a link showing that many millions of women do not have the access that we take for granted and you thought was available everywhere.

prevention. should be the norm.
frankj1 Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
from the site I cited...

-Of the 66 million women of reproductive age living in the US, more than 20 million are in need of publicly funded contraception. Among that 20 million, 19.5 million currently live in contraceptive deserts—that is, they lack reasonable access in their county to a health center that offers the full range of contraceptive methods.

In reality, we know that there are women across the US who may not currently be eligible for publicly funded contraception that rely on these same health centers. Whether for convenience, privacy reasons, or instances of reproductive coercion, women who have insurance may still seek contraception at health centers that primarily serve low income women. Thus, it is feasible that 19.5 million only accounts for a portion of women of reproductive age who reside in contraceptive deserts.-


these people are not pushing abortions. Their tag line under the name says: "the campaign to prevent unplanned pregnancy".
Nope, I never heard of them prior to my one minute of research.
teedubbya Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I used to enjoy debating with tail because I do value differing opinion when presented logically. That’s how I learn and my mind can be changed on things. There was a time when tail was one of the folks I could count on for this. I’m still open for that but it’s been severely lacking for awhile. I’m not sure what happened.

When the debate starts with things like don’t be such a main stream media driven troll, or mistating someone’s view in order to argue with that, or is continually moving off point and declaring victory, or claiming lack of comprehension is a liberal thing etc., there really isn’t anything of substance to learn from or even respect.... which is a tough one for me because I want to respect differing opinions and embrace the fence post. Throwing out prefab drivel into the subject of the day doesn’t really do much and certainly doesn’t “win”. It’s actually quite weak for such a strong posture. It may make for cool T-shirt’s or hats though.

Something has changed here. Maybe it’s me but there has been an evolution that is less than flattering. Maybe that’s just life.

It’s my opinion, I could be wrong, and I have no issue if Tail lashes back at me. I’ve been thinking it for awhile and chose to put it out there. I deserve what I get and can take it. I just miss what was once intelligent debate.

I’d still smoke one with ya tail, and enjoy it. I think this medium can bring out the worst in folks without them even realizing it.
DrafterX Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Mellow
dstieger Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
teedubbya wrote:
I used to enjoy debating with tail because I do value differing opinion when presented logically. That’s how I learn and my mind can be changed on things. There was a time when tail was one of the folks I could count on for this. I’m still open for that but it’s been severely lacking for awhile. I’m not sure what happened.

Not sure, but suggest a theory that 'Victor happened'....but, then again, I've made similar statements about Victor.....so maybe it's something else poisoning the water
Speyside Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
TW, you are seeing, witnessing the Trump effect. The best you can do is pity the people afflicted by TE, who in their right mind would want to be that way? Perhaps even pray for their cure.
teedubbya Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't think it's victor or Trump. I believe in personal responsibility. You can't blame someone else for how you act. That's the whole absurdity of the TDS theory (whether you apply it to the followers or detractors).

In fairness to tail it may just be me. Perhaps life events have caused me to be less patient and less willing to peal back the nonsense and find the kernel of truth. Maybe I have become delicate like a petunia. A fragile flower. A snowflake. A mind numbed robot with TDS.

I used to enjoy listening to folks like Rush because I found him funny and loved how he tweaked people. I can't listen to him now because it's hard to distinguish him from the mainstream and folks I respect parrot some of the nonsense as if it is real or normal. He and hanity and the like were once fringe but are now establishment. It is surreal.

It probably is me and I may owe tail an apology. Maybe it's always been this way and I'm just different. *shrug* I won't delete it though out of fairness.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Meh... Maybe this place was once home to purely serious political discussion, I don't know... From what I've seen, its a mix of trolling and devils advocating with a pinch of serious thought sprinkled in from time to time...

I still change my mind slightly and witness my thinking evolve as a result of discussions here... But attempting to go point by point with someone in serious political dialogue - this isn't a good format for that...
teedubbya Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It never was. But I did take some folks opinions more seriously than I do today.

As I said. That’s on me. Maybe they were just as absurd back when.
frankj1 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
I used to enjoy debating with tail because I do value differing opinion when presented logically. That’s how I learn and my mind can be changed on things. There was a time when tail was one of the folks I could count on for this. I’m still open for that but it’s been severely lacking for awhile. I’m not sure what happened.

When the debate starts with things like don’t be such a main stream media driven troll, or mistating someone’s view in order to argue with that, or is continually moving off point and declaring victory, or claiming lack of comprehension is a liberal thing etc., there really isn’t anything of substance to learn from or even respect.... which is a tough one for me because I want to respect differing opinions and embrace the fence post. Throwing out prefab drivel into the subject of the day doesn’t really do much and certainly doesn’t “win”. It’s actually quite weak for such a strong posture. It may make for cool T-shirt’s or hats though.

Something has changed here. Maybe it’s me but there has been an evolution that is less than flattering. Maybe that’s just life.

It’s my opinion, I could be wrong, and I have no issue if Tail lashes back at me. I’ve been thinking it for awhile and chose to put it out there. I deserve what I get and can take it. I just miss what was once intelligent debate.

I’d still smoke one with ya tail, and enjoy it. I think this medium can bring out the worst in folks without them even realizing it.

Joe and I still enjoy it, and he purposely throws the "main stream..." stuff at me for a laugh. He always tells me I'm not like the others! HA!

The misstating opponents positions just makes him tougher to tackle.

The only thing I'd wish to change is his assuming what's in others' thoughts and then going after that. It forces going way around the mountain just to establish positions and may not be worth the energy spent.

Believe me, he is always smiling as he types.
teedubbya Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
^ understood and I wasn't just referring to this thread or you. I know it's good natured between you two.

I just stopped taking anything he said seriously after one of his responses to Jade. Assuming anyone that disagrees with you is a mainstream media blah blah blah, or TDS is a really lazy way of not having to back up or actually have original thoughts (perhaps frustrating because it has landed big league in real politics). At that point in my mind there is nothing to consider. I'm disappointed because I think Tail is smart and I can learn some things from him.

Meh. I ll throw out both an apology and an apology accepted since we no longer have to give consideration to whom we are speaking. LOL And as a result I win.
frankj1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
you can't declare victory. I already did that and Joe threw a protest flag...it is now under review.
Waiting to hear from Control Central.
teedubbya Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
by the way.... in terms of the evolution of this forum do you notice we don't call folks faaaaaaaaaaags or gayyyyyy much anymore? wierd. because tail is still gay.

It was common in here but sort of disappeared.
teedubbya Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
frankj1 wrote:
you can't declare victory. I already did that and Joe threw a protest flag...it is now under review.
Waiting to hear from Control Central.



protest all you you want you delicate little flower but I won and it's over. You do get a participant ribbon though.
frankj1 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I'm tellin'!
teedubbya Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
fine. no ribbon for you.
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,580
Big wheels keep on turning
Carry me home to see your skin
Singing songs about your south-land
I miss 'ole' 'bummy once again and I think it's a sin
Well I heard Mister Frank sing about her
Well I heard ole Frank put her down
Well, I hope Frank washed his member
A southern man don't need him around anyhow
Sweet home Inyobutt
Where the taint are so blue
Sweet home Inyobutt
Lord, I'm coming home to you
In Rudolph they love the Tripod, boo-hoo-hoo
Now we all did what we could doo doo
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you, tell the truth
Sweet home Inyobutt
Where the taints are so blue
Sweet home Inyobutt
Lord, I'm coming home to you, here I come
*ohhhhhhhh*
Now Muscle Shorts gives him the Swampers
And they've been known to make him drip for a day or two (yes they do)
Lord they get me off so much
They pick me up when I'm feeling blue, now how bout you?
Sweet home Inyobutt
Where the taints are so blue
Sweet home Inyobutt
Lord, I'm coming home to you
Sweet home Inyobutt , oh sweet home
Where the taints are so blue and the Tripods true
Sweet home Inyobutt
Lord, I'm coming home to you
teedubbya Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
you miss ol bammy? I never thought you liked him.
frankj1 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Randolph, not Rudolph
Speyside Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
LMAO!!! Z, that is hilarious.
RMAN4443 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
frankj1 wrote:
Randolph, not Rudolph

artistic interpretation?....he was on a roll...Applause
frankj1 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
RMAN4443 wrote:
artistic interpretation?....he was on a roll...Applause

that's why there's butter on his pants.


Bob & Ray
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
Ink pen leaked in my shirt pocket today... Sad
delta1 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
Russia and Trump happened...
JadeRose Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
It always goes back to butt stuff with Z.
RMAN4443 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
DrafterX wrote:
Ink pen leaked in my shirt pocket today... Sad

Is there some other kind of pen out there I don't know about. ..Think
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
RMAN4443 wrote:
Is there some other kind of pen out there I don't know about. ..Think

pig pen
teedubbya Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The most underrated member of the dead.
frankj1 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
teedubbya wrote:
The most underrated dead member of the Dead.

more better...
delta1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
tailgater wrote:
If there's even just ONE clinic that performs abortions up to birth, then abortions up to birth are a thing.

It's just too bad that the clinics don't demand the women to complete a survey so we can satisfy JadeRose's need to know.



I am also opposed to late term abortions, especially in cases where the fetus would be healthy and survive outside the womb. But in almost all cases where post-viability abortions occur, there are exigent circumstances, such as fetal abnormality or mother health issues, where I believe it is a legitimate call for the woman and her doctor, and her loved ones to make. I don't believe it is a decision for me, for the state, or for a small minority of activists to dictate, one-way or the other.

I've not reviewed why some abortion doctors who performed late term abortions were charged, found guilty and imprisoned...did they perform near birth abortions where the fetus was viable...I do understand that the procedure is very complicated and takes 3-4 days to perform.
delta1 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
bull pen
tailgater Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
I used to enjoy debating with tail because I do value differing opinion when presented logically. That’s how I learn and my mind can be changed on things. There was a time when tail was one of the folks I could count on for this. I’m still open for that but it’s been severely lacking for awhile. I’m not sure what happened.

When the debate starts with things like don’t be such a main stream media driven troll, or mistating someone’s view in order to argue with that, or is continually moving off point and declaring victory, or claiming lack of comprehension is a liberal thing etc., there really isn’t anything of substance to learn from or even respect.... which is a tough one for me because I want to respect differing opinions and embrace the fence post. Throwing out prefab drivel into the subject of the day doesn’t really do much and certainly doesn’t “win”. It’s actually quite weak for such a strong posture. It may make for cool T-shirt’s or hats though.

Something has changed here. Maybe it’s me but there has been an evolution that is less than flattering. Maybe that’s just life.

It’s my opinion, I could be wrong, and I have no issue if Tail lashes back at me. I’ve been thinking it for awhile and chose to put it out there. I deserve what I get and can take it. I just miss what was once intelligent debate.

I’d still smoke one with ya tail, and enjoy it. I think this medium can bring out the worst in folks without them even realizing it.


I'd be interested to know which views I've "misstated" in this thread.

As for the over use of calling the anti-trump crowd a victim of the MSM? Guilty.
But that's on purpose.
And it's mostly true.

Mass hysteria might explain some of the "Collusion-I-mean-Obstruction" chants. But mostly it's MSM and the same social media platform that they claim stole the election.

100 million people don't all turn left at the same place at the same time.
They KNEW it was Collusion between Trump and Russia. The knew it so much that they formed an investigation. They claimed they'd believe the report. And when the report exonerated him for the collusion, they said it was never about Russia.
If you're not laughing at this by now then you're not paying attention.

People get bent out of shape because I call them liberals. but in the meantime, liberals call conservative racist. Not for what they do or even what they say. But for how they vote.
Then I'm the one being chastised for name calling.
Which is fine. I just don't understand the hypocrisy. It's like saying "I hate it when people f*cking use foul language".

TW, you don't have to apologize for posting what you did.
If (when?) I go off track I WANT you to call me out.
If I swing back it just means it's an interesting discussion, or we're bored, or we've been drinking. Or that you're simply wrong and I want to show you how to be right.
I'm a giver.

But I'll back off a bit with the liberal bashing if it's going to result in less banter.
That's the opposite effect I was aiming for.
Although I can't say I'm surprised, considering how sensitive the liberals are...





teedubbya Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don't care if you bash liberals. They have always been a little kooky to me and I can't defend most of their thoughts. I just was trying (maybe not well) to describe when I start taking folks thoughts less seriously. In fairness maybe that is the intent at times. It's not as if I am always serious or even most times.

Meh.


By the way did anyone else think of Frank when reading this headline

California man impaled by tripod on California freeway
tailgater Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Seriously?

Herfing

DrafterX Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
He prefers Shirley... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
dude was a veteran, too...perp who threw the tripod wasn't Frank...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BIzGnuOz3Y
borndead1 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,215
As long as we live under a representative system of government, abortion will never be 100% legal or 100% illegal. Never. It will NEVER happen. To fight for either of those scenarios is futile. The hardcore pros and antis need to get that through their thick skulls. So realistically, the only way forward is compromise. A few states passed 20 week limits. I think that's a fair compromise.

P.S. 90% of the people on both sides who rant and rave about Roe v. Wade have never even read the majority opinion of that court decision. It's actually a pretty 'moderate' decision, as liberal vs. conservative arguments go.
izonfire Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
I’m actually in favor of post-natal abortion for a good portion of society, but perhaps I’m interrupting...
victor809 Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I've never understood how anyone who believes in an omniscient and omnipotent god can be against abortions.

If you believe in predetermination, which you have to if you believe in an omniscient and omnipotent god... Then infants are not any more innocent than the adults they will become, you just don't know which is which yet... And if an omniscient and omnipotent god wants that kid aborted, then maybe they're planning ahead.
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
But it's an unforgivable sin to commit suicide.. do you think it was God's plan to send the suicide peoples to hell from the beginning..?? Huh
victor809 Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yes.

If he's truly omnipotent and omniscient then it was.
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
That doesn't sound very nice of him.. Mellow
dstieger Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Or her?

No fury like....and all that?
tailgater Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Can one be omniscient if they don't know what that word means?

teedubbya Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
we all have free Will although Drafter does take donations
DrafterX Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I could sure use a couple cupcakes about now.. Mellow
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