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victor808 Offline
#51 Posted: Sat, Jun 17 2006, 12:45 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
This guy is simply trying to transfer existing unknowns into religion. There is nothing particularly exciting about his attempts. I read his article on "Unraveling DNA's Design", which simply was a high school overview of DNA. In essence, he said "it's amazing that it works so efficiently, therefore god must have done it".

This idea that anything we can't explain must be supernatural is completely at odds with how we should conduct ourselves. We should instead be saying "how does DNA manage to compact itself?" and discover the answer. Rather than saying "at infinitely small distances, matter no longer acts in a manner we normally can measure... so god must exist", we should say "what is wrong about our current views on physics that allows this anomoly and how can we alter them so that we have a better grasp on the universe".

Just because we don't have the answer to something, does not mean that god exists. By forcing a "catch-all" answer into any question of natural laws, all you end up with is bad answers. It is this sort of thinking that caused people to believe the world was on the back of a turtle, or that the earth was flat.
dapperdan Offline
#52 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 7:21 AM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
Humanism, the "new" old religion. It is just mans way of denying that God does exists. It is being taught in our colleges across this country and around the world. It is really nothing new between God and man. Man in his pride and arrogance claming we don't need you or your ways. I guess it does come down to a step of faith into who you are going to believe.Not that there is any thing wrong with understanding how this world works and to use it to our benefit. I just think we as a human race need to acknowledge who made it happen.

Humanism,
Education is thus a most powerful ally of humanism. What can the theistic Sunday schools, meeting for an hour once a week, and teaching only a fraction of the children, do to stem the tide of a five-day program of humanistic teaching?
-1933, Charles Francis Potter, Humanism, A New Religion

Jesus own words,
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no-one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

The Bible was nothing more to me than just a book of words until at age 29 when I asked Him into my life and it became clear as to what the truth is. It is that first step of faith that leads to a greater understanding of His presence in this world and in every true believers heart.Flawed like 8track said, yes, but striving for that greater prize(in His power) that nothing in this world can offer or compare too.




Humanism,
There is no God and no soul. Hence there are no needs for the props of traditional religion. With dogma and creed excluded, the immutable truth is also dead and buried. There is no room for fixed, natural law or permanent moral absolutes.



God's word,
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

I have never looked at my relationship with Jesus as a religion. Humanism is a religion but Christianity practiced as a relationship is just that a relationship with the one and only living God. Christianity practiced as a religion is just the same as any other religion.Just mans way of controlling or appeasing his god. We all worship something, believe it or not it was what we were created for. But I guess that is what this post is about. Or what 8 first thought he would name it,"8track(the Christian) & The Atheist" LOL

From the mouth of Peter the fisherman,he sometimes had trouble with this one himself.LOL

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,



If either one of you make it out to Southern California we will have too hook up for some cold beers and fine cigars.I'm sure MACS and the rest of us out here would enjoy meeting you both.Was it 8track that traded MACS for the shirt? I will have to find it and top it so we can look at MACS saggy butt, LOL .I was at his house with echo4alpha when he got it.

BTW, I like the picture, something about the blur adds to it.

dandapper at adelphia dot net

Dan








victor808 Offline
#53 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 7:43 AM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
DD -

You have a problem, you are stuck in the idea of a religion. "Humanism" as you define it, is not what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about putting my faith in anything, whether it be a god or science. This is because science does not ask for faith. If something still has holes in it, it is not considered a truth. The Big Bang theory of universe creation is still just that, a theory. What was before that? We don't know, but I'm sure people are trying to find ways to figure it out.

If your god came down and said 'Hi", I'd believe he existed. Still wouldn't be too interested in following him (I have issues with his methods), but I'd believe he exists at that time. But if you want to follow someone with an ego problem, feel free.

What I'm saying is that I ask for proof in something before I believe it. If I told you to give me 500 cigars and you'd be repayed after death "trust me". Would you? If I had a long book everyone said I wrote through men 2000 years ago, would you? A book is no better than the author, yet you seem to think that a 2000 year old book should dictate your belief system.
pabloescabar Offline
#54 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 8:05 AM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
looks like 808 is going to be a tuff nut ta crack
dapperdan Offline
#55 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
O K, I'm back, worked out , mowed the lawn, on the Sabbath? every day is the Sabbath. I rest in His grace ,Ok, I will stop preaching, LOL.

Pablo, I know why is he being so difficult ? I thought for sure I would come back after all that and Vic would say, "Dan , what must I do to be saved" LOL


Vic, problem , problem you think I have a problem ? In my best Robert Denero voice ,I know it was "you think I'm funny" to Ray Lolita. Name that Movie. LOL

All kidding aside Vic I totally know where you are coming from. I very much believed the same way 19 years ago. I was pretty much a atheist but thought along the lines of George Lucas in that god was just a force we could tap into. Jesus was just a guy that tapped into it and had some cool things to say. I thought the god of Christianity was a very arrogant god to think he was the only one and that man(as the bible stated) was above all other living matter.I tried many different religions for a time and came to the conclusion they were all a bunch of bunk! My life was going just fine for the next ten years. I owned my own house worked and played hard. Life was O K ,I was done searching. Then I met this girl, she was real. Not like the other chicks I was going out with.She got me to go to church with her. It took me about 6 months of going to this church that this ex drug dealer was the pastor and just read from the bible and taught. It was a analytical decision for me. I got to the point I just had to say to myself that it was the truth. I went because the girl I was dating was a Christian, now my wife. I was tricked, LOL. I also do not believe in coincidences. I have never met 8track and I don't think I have ever even talked to him via this board but I know from what he said he is a true believer." I'm a flawed Christine ", that is something some one who knows Jesus would say.Humbled before his God. I know you guys talked about our God because what he said, I'm still a Christian and you are still a atheist. It seems like the conversation is some what continuing here. There are a lot of guys on this site that are true believers Pablo, 8track , myself to name the ones who posted on this thread and many more. They can speak up themselves if they catch this thread. But I do know a little more about where your coming from in that you are not some college kid brain washed by his professors, LOL. But nor am I when it comes to my faith. I respect the fact that you do not buy into either view but into the one that is your own,so to speak. You never know, maybe there is a God and He has a plan for you. I may never look at the # 8 in the same way, LOL.And yes there is faith involved but it is not blind. When you see real things happening in your life you trust more and more. It is not easy at times and those who preach give your life to Jesus and every thing will be fine are leading people astray.It is a personal relationship and NOT a religion, at least for me. I get hyped up after working out so I guess that is why I'm a little long winded LOL . Take care,

Dan
pabloescabar Offline
#56 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 12:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
keep up the good work Dan, I think you got him right where you want him.
dapperdan Offline
#57 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 12:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
Ya know Pablo maybe this is not about Vic. That is the cool thing about this site is that it is not a private conversation. There are people who never post and just lurk and maybe it was something that they were ready to hear. God works in mysterious ways.

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

If you have never seen the movie the passion of the Christ check it out.Even if your not a believer. He did come to earth and say hi, died a horrific death in my place and rose from the dead. He will be back! It is well done by Mel Gibson. Brave hart another great movie of his. Both awesome films.
8trackdisco Offline
#58 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 3:59 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,074
I think this thread wins in the category of "most posts on a fuzzy picture".

Dan,
I like reading you. There is a certain casualness in your posts. I generally don't like discussing religion much. Your approach is "Tucker-Lite". Too much fire and brimstone makes me walk away from the flame. That's what turns me off to Tucker.

I could have been Victor 20 years ago. I never called my self an atheist, but I basically was. Got real close to life's edge and even dangled a foot over the edge. Gave up on family, friends and a good woman. Basically gave up, period.

For some reason, that I still to this day can't figure out why, and I'm not sure I could really explain it to a "real Christian", Jesus decided to befriend me.

I'm not a Born Again. I rarely go to church- much to the chagrin of some family members. But I became Jesus's friend.

Now you don't have to be friends with all my friends. I can deal with people not liking some of my friends. But I do have a limited tolerance for people that continue to attack my friends.

When I met with Victor, I took a liking to him. In one great ironic twist of fate, me- the near atheist of the mid 1980's was surrounded by two atheists (Victor and the bartender) and a friend of mine that is rapidly losing faith.

The discussion went to religion, it got bantered about a bit and it was dropped. About thirty minutes later Victor brought it up again. I asked if we could drop the subject because nobody was going to change anybody elses mind, and I am not a preacher. Victor smiled, made one more comment, then dropped it.

As a matter of fact, if someone would have tried to pump me full of Jesus 20 years ago, I would have either left, or attempt to knock the Bible thumper on his ass (keyword there is "attempt").

Jesus is my friend. Jesus is not Victor's friend. That's fine. When I asked Victor to leave Jesus alone, he did. Good all the way around.

Hey, maybe its better that Victor and the atheists (sounds like a Madison rock band) don't believe. That just gives me Jesus more time to work on me.

Victor. I hope you and Jesus find each other. But if you don't, I'll still smoke a cigar with you. Just don't be to rough on my friend in my presence. :)

Endith the sermon
(The above is Copyrighted by Echo4Alpha 2006, all rights reserved).
pabloescabar Offline
#59 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 5:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
Jesus is a friend of mine
erkwgz Offline
#60 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 7:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
8,
Sorry pal but according to all the preachers and the good book itself(As I have interpreted them and it) if you have not taken Jesus Christ to be your own personal Lord and Savior(Born Again)you aint got the keys to the kingdom. According to most theologians it will not natter how good a friend Jesus is if you have not taken that step of being born again your friendship will be for nada.
dapperdan Offline
#61 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 9:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
Pablo and I are on the phone now, so what does your handle mean. erkwgz ?????
Wyteyes Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 9:36 PM EST
Joined: 01-03-2005
Posts: 2,413
Hey Pab and Dan... All is quite here in Sacto so I thought I would see what's shaken. Amen to erkwgz.
John
dapperdan Offline
#63 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 10:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847

Now is that a God thing ! Pablo and I were just talking about our bro wyteyes and his wife Millie , it's true ! We were just saying how much we luv ya. Heaven will surely be the ultimate meeting place.
pabloescabar Offline
#64 Posted: Sun, Jun 18 2006, 11:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
hey whiteyez, God be your guide & peace be with you...

yo Erik, what'cha talk'n bout my man ?

is Mr. Disco sit'n on the fence
8trackdisco Offline
#65 Posted: Mon, Jun 19 2006, 3:42 AM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,074
Fence sitting? Nope.

Perhaps my definition of Born Again and yours are different. To me, the Born Again types wake up one morning and walk around quoting the Bible most of the day.

I have accepted Jesus as my Savior, so perhaps I am Born Again without realizing it. Man, this stuff gets complicated.
erkwgz Offline
#66 Posted: Mon, Jun 19 2006, 4:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
8,

You must realize that I come from a pretty much Southern Baptist point of view. So, I could be a little fu@%ed up in my interpretation. lol

dapperdan Offline
#67 Posted: Mon, Jun 19 2006, 4:42 AM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
8 You forgot the 1000 yard stare. My old man (ex motorcycle cop) used to say to me"you got the 1000 yard stare,you looking for the second coming of Christ ? "I was not saved back then just strung out, LOL. Funny the older he gets I think he is getting the 1000 yard stare. He was a atheist for many years. The closer to death the more he thinks of his maker. LOL


Not complicated at all ,we(myself mainly) make it that way, just keep walking with Him.
dapperdan Offline
#68 Posted: Mon, Jun 19 2006, 4:43 AM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
all the way home !
victor808 Offline
#69 Posted: Mon, Jun 19 2006, 6:37 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
You know... this afternoon I was in an internet cafe typing a response to this thread. It was a fabulous response. Unfortunately the cafe's wireless sucked and I couldn't get it to post. You guys can thank your god. I'm too lazy to retype it. Consider yourselves appropriately told. :)
erkwgz Offline
#70 Posted: Mon, Jun 19 2006, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-07-2004
Posts: 10,840
Don't waste your reply on this backsliden Sothern Baptist.
pabloescabar Offline
#71 Posted: Tue, Jun 20 2006, 9:48 AM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
I'll drink ta that
8trackdisco Offline
#72 Posted: Tue, Jun 20 2006, 1:31 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,074
'..You know... this afternoon I was in an internet cafe typing a response to this thread. It was a fabulous response. Unfortunately the cafe's wireless sucked and I couldn't get it to post. You guys can thank your god. I'm too lazy to retype it...'
------------------------------------------------------

Well, He does move in mysterious ways.

:)
dapperdan Offline
#73 Posted: Tue, Jun 20 2006, 7:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
8, LMAO !

Vic,pull it back out of that brain of yours if it was so awesome and post it. That is if you have the photographic memory. Find it, hit replay. we would love to read it and respond.
Dan
victor808 Offline
#74 Posted: Tue, Jun 20 2006, 8:28 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Oh goodness no. The moment is passed. I barely have a memory, let alone any of photographic quality. And half the time I don't even know what I'm typing. I think you'd be disappointed to learn that half the time you are communicating simply with well trained fingers.

And, to be honest, if there is a god I do like the idea of him/her/it trying to thwart me. Makes me feel special in that "Lex Luther" sort of way. It certainly has more street cred than having Drathaar trying to thwart me. Although, I think he still suspects I don't exist.
dapperdan Offline
#75 Posted: Tue, Jun 20 2006, 8:57 PM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
Cool, just think about what was said here and remember He is there just for you.
dapperdan Offline
#76 Posted: Tue, Jun 20 2006, 9:25 PM EST
Joined: 08-18-2004
Posts: 2,847
Thy shining grace can cheer
This dungeon where I dwell.
Tis paradise when thou art here,
If Thou depart, "tis hell"
A. W. Pink
pabloescabar Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 1:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
ooops...
victor808 Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Man pablo... why'd ya have to go and resurrect this blurry picture? I feel like big foot or a UFO or something. (If you look closely at this blurry photographic evidence, you can see that Victor DOES in fact exist!)
pabloescabar Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 9:20 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
thats what I was wonder'n
victor808 Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 9:34 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Man... I hate being on the board late at night... never know what kinda crazy people are lurking here.
jjohnson28 Offline
#81 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 9:39 PM EST
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
No kidding. LOL
victor808 Offline
#82 Posted: Mon, Sep 25 2006, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Man... I really should go. But that would mean I'd have to finish up my work....
pabloescabar Offline
#83 Posted: Tue, Sep 26 2006, 12:51 AM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
work??? and ta think I thought you had a silver spoon stuck in yo mouth
victor808 Offline
#84 Posted: Tue, Sep 26 2006, 9:53 AM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Naah... I think it was tupperware.
jackconrad Offline
#85 Posted: Fri, Feb 8 2008, 8:20 PM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
FINALLY CLARITY !
donutboy2000 Offline
#86 Posted: Sat, Feb 9 2008, 12:41 PM EST
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
victor=anewday
JHC Offline
#87 Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2008, 8:30 AM EST
Joined: 12-27-2005
Posts: 19,283
There he is.
victor808 Offline
#88 Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2008, 9:34 AM EST
Joined: 04-20-2005
Posts: 7,038
Well now. Why did this get dragged up?
cbc812 Offline
#89 Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2008, 9:38 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
Because anybody here that doesn't steep themselves in the most mindless political propaganda is obviously adroomi. Who is obviously you. And me. I'm you and you are me. Does that clarify?
jackconrad Offline
#90 Posted: Sun, Jan 3 2010, 5:22 AM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
The Love continues
jackconrad Offline
#91 Posted: Sat, May 12 2012, 11:16 AM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Had to leave doubts by blurring the pick. Kinda Like the do with Bigfoot only it's with Big Fool instead!
victor809 Offline
#92 Posted: Sat, May 12 2012, 7:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
JAck.. you're the one with a **** on your head. :)
Damn this was a long time ago.... a great time back then. :)
bloody spaniard Offline
#93 Posted: Sun, May 13 2012, 3:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I was a garrulous sot back in the day...Gonz

I can feel the love in this photo.Mellow
victor809 Offline
#94 Posted: Mon, May 14 2012, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
There are less blurry photos of me and I think 8track from the wild rose herf in the day...
victor809 Offline
#95 Posted: Thu, Aug 15 2019, 9:46 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
hah.... found it
izonfire Offline
#96 Posted: Thu, Aug 15 2019, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
Masturbation in progress...

Drool
fishinguitarman Offline
#97 Posted: Wed, Aug 28 2019, 10:04 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Arrrgh! Thanks for that creepy visual
fishinguitarman Offline
#98 Posted: Wed, Aug 28 2019, 10:10 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
The 2 biggest idiots that ever posted herešŸ¤®
Adrama and












809,428
Buckwheat Offline
#99 Posted: Wed, Aug 28 2019, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
MACS wrote:
*Note to self, take plenty of pictures in Vegas with your new camera. 8track's is unreliable*


I forgot who smashed the camera in Vegas. Was it JJ? Beer
victor809 Offline
#100 Posted: Wed, Aug 28 2019, 10:39 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Buckwheat wrote:
I forgot who smashed the camera in Vegas. Was it JJ? Beer


Yeah... that was jjohnson or something.
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