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Last post 4 years ago by fishinguitarman. 16 replies replies.
Negative interest rates.....
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victor809 Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Sep 3 2019, 10:57 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So this is interesting to me.

Don't get me wrong... I still think tiny-hands-the-tweeting-mussolini is a moron.

But I'm curious why he's hung up on a negative interest rate. He's now tweeted angrily about it twice.

Sep 3, 2019 08:45:24 AM
Germany, and so many other countries, have negative interest rates, “they get paid for loaning money,” and our Federal Reserve fails to act! Remember, these are also our weak currency competitors! [Twitter for iPhone]

Aug 22, 2019 07:53:13 AM
Germany sells 30 year bonds offering negative yields. Germany competes with the USA. Our Federal Reserve does not allow us to do what we must do. They put us at a disadvantage against our competition. Strong Dollar, No Inflation! They move like quicksand. Fight or go home! [Twitter for iPhone]

So.... let's take a look at what the moron is suggesting....

He appears to be correct in at least identifying that the federal reserve sets interest rates...
But he does not seem to understand how interest rates work... ("they get paid for loaning money" is the exact opposite of what happens when your interest rate is negative)

If my memory serves, I don't think this is the first time he has shown a complete misunderstanding of the time value of money.... if you set your interest rates negative, that is a clear sign that you expect future dollars to be worth less than current dollars. This would be a sign of upcoming bad news.
ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Sep 3 2019, 11:33 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
*sympathy post*

He’s still a better POTUS than you.
fishinguitarman Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Sep 4 2019, 6:18 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
But...but...he knows more than ANYBODY! And listen closely because he will tell you what to think!
victor809 Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Welp Wharton really needs to think about revoking trumpies degree, because he's back on the interest rates.

Just today he tweeeted:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
The Federal Reserve should get our interest rates down to ZERO, or less, and we should then start to refinance our debt. INTEREST COST COULD BE BROUGHT WAY DOWN, while at the same time substantially lengthening the term. We have the great currency, power, and balance sheet.....
....The USA should always be paying the the lowest rate. No Inflation! It is only the naïveté of Jay Powell and the Federal Reserve that doesn’t allow us to do what other countries are already doing. A once in a lifetime opportunity that we are missing because of “Boneheads.”"

Now a basic business school class would describe the time value of money. Money today is worth more than money tomorrow. This is why lending works... this is how treasury bills work.
If our interest rates were 0, or less than zero, then that means a future dollar will be worth more than a present dollar. The thought is that this may work with economies which have deflationary currency... but we do not have that. With basic inflation intact, as well as the idea that future risk makes a current dollar always more valuable than a future dollar, then why would anyone pay money to allow someone else to hold it for you.
dstieger Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:18 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
How is his position dumb....even a little bit?

Rather brilliant, I'd argue.


If your family's empire of businesses carries in excess of a billion dollars of debt.....wouldn't you want lower (or negative) interest rates?
victor809 Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2019, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:
How is his position dumb....even a little bit?

Rather brilliant, I'd argue.


If your family's empire of businesses carries in excess of a billion dollars of debt.....wouldn't you want lower (or negative) interest rates?


heheh... fair point. brilliant for him. dumb for the country.
victor809 Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
He's still at it.


Sept 12:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
European Central Bank, acting quickly, Cuts Rates 10 Basis Points. They are trying, and succeeding, in depreciating the Euro against the VERY strong Dollar, hurting U.S. exports.... And the Fed sits, and sits, and sits. They get paid to borrow money, while we are paying interest!

Sept 16:
Producer prices in China shrank most in 3 years due to China’s big devaluation of their currency, coupled with monetary stimulus. Federal Reserve not watching? Will Fed ever get into the game? Dollar strongest EVER! Really bad for exports. No Inflation...Highest Interest Rates...
...The United States, because of the Federal Reserve, is paying a MUCH higher Interest Rate than other competing countries. They can’t believe how lucky they are that Jay Powell & the Fed don’t have a clue. And now, on top of it all, the Oil hit. Big Interest Rate Drop, Stimulus!

Sept 22:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
“Go across the world and you’ll see either very low interest rates, or negative rates. The President wants to be competitive with these other countries on this, but I don’t think he’ll fire Jay Powell (even if I should!).” We should always be paying less interest than others!

(I have no idea who the moron is quoting or claiming he's quoting in the above tweet)
fishinguitarman Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Give it up Vicki nobody wants to post on your little propaganda thread
delta1 Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 6:18 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,784
in Europe, and Japan among others, where this idea was implemented to stimulate growth, it hasn't worked out...

that would be the rates that banks and federal reserves charge each other, not what consumer borrowers could expect, correct?


and the average saver would be paying banks to hold their cash in savings and money market accounts? no thanks...
frankj1 Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
and so much for letting the fed act independently.
constant pressuring!
tailgater Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
and so much for letting the fed act independently.
constant pressuring!


This.


(but don't tell anybody)
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
This.


(but don't tell anybody)



and I didn't just mean Trump.


(but don't tell anybody)
tailgater Offline
#13 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:52 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Yet you still won't tailgate with me and Rick.
frankj1 Offline
#14 Posted: Mon, Sep 23 2019, 8:54 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
it was a beach day!
Let me get past the first week or so of October and I should be good to go.
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Sep 24 2019, 12:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
delta1 wrote:
in Europe, and Japan among others, where this idea was implemented to stimulate growth, it hasn't worked out...

that would be the rates that banks and federal reserves charge each other, not what consumer borrowers could expect, correct?


and the average saver would be paying banks to hold their cash in savings and money market accounts? no thanks...


It's not shown any real impact on economies where it's been tried. And yes... it would essentially be paying banks to hold your money.
fishinguitarman Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Sep 25 2019, 7:30 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Well that would help...





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