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“The economy stupid!” - Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead
Abrignac Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
James Carville: I've never 'seen the Democratic Party suffer a case of political amnesia this bad'

BY JAMES CARVILLE FEB 9, 2020 - 6:00 AM

Political parties do not exist for factions to gain power over them and lose elections, so long as the faction maintains its grip. Here’s some news: Parties exist to win elections. Without power, we’ve got nothing. In 2016, Sen. Bernie Sanders told the House Democratic caucus: “The goal is not to win elections.” Maybe the stakes involved with Donald Trump weren’t crystal clear then but, by God, they should be now. Winning this election is all that matters — and the way to do it is not running some rat race to the farthest reaches of left-wing zombie land.

Never in my life have I seen the Democratic Party suffer a case of political amnesia this bad. Not two years ago, our party stormed the House. And how’d we do it? By running a diverse coalition of candidates — young, black, brown, women, gay, straight — on one basic principle: While the president gets things done only for himself, we are going to get real things done for you. While the president targets your protections for preexisting conditions, we are going to lower the cost of prescription drugs; while he marches to the orders of the NRA, we are going to protect your child’s life. We care about climate, infrastructure, and broadband. It goes on.

Our margins with suburban women shot into the stratosphere. We elected Democratic governors in Michigan and Wisconsin. But not two years later, Democratic candidates for president started ripping that playbook apart with a bunch of chest-beating: Who can spend the most trillions on health care, or who was most brazenly outspoken on letting criminals vote from jail? In what universe are those policies going to give us the numbers we need to defeat Donald Trump?

There is only one moral imperative right now, for the very fate of American democracy: defeating Donald Trump. That's all that matters. And I am scared to death we are about to blow it.
In the last several days, Trump’s approval rating has shot to its highest point ever and Democratic enthusiasm is diving down. If the Iowa caucus results showed anything, it’s that this crackpot theory — running on electorally risky policies like abolishing private health insurance — is not going to magically turn out large new constituencies. In the first voting state, we didn’t get record turnout. Sirens should be screaming.

Our party is desperately praying for a candidate to bring the rest of the country along with us. Politics is about power, and winning elections is simple addition. To take power across the country, we must bring along as many as possible from all corners: suburban women, Obama/Trump voters, people of color, you name it.

We win these voters by being relevant. We win by running on real issues we know we can deliver. We win by contrasting ourselves with the highly unpopular policies of Trump’s administration. That’s how we dominated in 2018. We don’t win running on mile-high fantasies that are likely to lose swing states, and even more likely to never pass through Congress.
If we lose those swing states, we also don't win back the Senate and we have four more years of Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. Do you know what the Supreme Court will look like in 2024 if we have that? So we’ve got a choice to make: Do we want to be an ideological cult that alienates large swathes of America, or does our party want to have a majoritarian dominance?

If we don’t win this election, no policy on the progressive spectrum — no matter how big or small — has a shot of becoming real. How about that for a purity test?

It is plainly clear to me that Donald Trump is the most dangerous president in modern American history. He is odious. He has broken the law. He is racist. And I believe the Senate should have removed him from office and he should be shackled in a prison cell. But this is exactly what has made Trump the weakest president in modern American history. No incumbent president with approval below 50% has ever won reelection — and Trump’s has never been above that. He’s underwater in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania; he’s nearly underwater in Texas.

Trump is down, and when you’ve got somebody down in politics, you take your heel and you crush them into the dirt. The way our party does that is by nominating a candidate for president — and candidates up and down the ballot — who build on the 2018 playbook, and run on relevant, realistic policies that impact the lives of everyday Americans. And if you don’t want to hear it from me, just listen to Gretchen Whitmer’s State of the Union rebuttal from Tuesday — I’d say she knows a thing or two about winning Michigan in the age of Trump.

Now, I am going to vote for and support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is. Our country’s future is strapped on a respirator. NATO is checked-in to the ICU. White supremacists have been allowed to crawl out from under their rocks and show their faces in the sun again. Our lifelong government leaders have been demoralized by Trump ten times over.
With democracy bedridden, on life support, we cannot afford to lose this election. The Democratic Party is the only thing separating our country from the abyss. We better get this right.

James Carville is a political consultant from New Orleans.
delta1 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
he's just fooling around...either that, or the Russians have hacked him...


but the last three paragraphs kinda sound like him...
Abrignac Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
Looks like 4 more years. If the Dems can’t muster support, they’ll lose the house and maybe a handful of Senate seats. As a result, we’ll see a swing in favor of a Constitutionalist jurists which IMHO is a good thing.

It’s really sad though. My father’s family were Democrats. I remember cooking pots of jambalaya at the local Democrat headquarters on election days. When I was in middle and high school my good friend’s mother was the state Democratic Party chairwoman. My grandfather served in our state legislature. He also helped form two Local unions here. My Dad was a ward boss. This is certainly not their party. But, if Castro or Chavez were still alive they would no doubt be basking in glory.
Abrignac Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
he's just fooling around...either that, or the Russians have hacked him...


but the last three paragraphs kinda sound like him...


While waiting for a flight back to New Orleans, he walked by as I was holding my daughter who was maybe 5-6 at the time. He mentioned that she was very beautiful and certainly took after her mother. He sat with us and chatted about 20-30 minutes before he boarded with the other first class passengers.

From what I recall about him he was on point in his editorial.
delta1 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Abrignac wrote:
Looks like 4 more years. If the Dems can’t muster support, they’ll lose the house and maybe a handful of Senate seats. As a result, we’ll see a swing in favor of a Constitutionalist jurists which IMHO is a good thing.

It’s really sad though. My father’s family were Democrats. I remember cooking pots of jambalaya at the local Democrat headquarters on election days. When I was in middle and high school my good friend’s mother was the state Democratic Party chairwoman. My grandfather served in our state legislature. He also helped form two Local unions here. My Dad was a ward boss. This is certainly not their party. But, if Castro or Chavez were still alive they would no doubt be basking in glory.



That was during the time that Southern Dems actually had power and influence...they started leaving the party and joining the GOP after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964...most Southern Dems switched to the GOP by the early 90's...now the South is mostly solid Red ...but the pendulum seems to be shifting with black and Latino population growth in some states of the South...

too early to say there'll be four more years...I think Carville was in shock at how inept his party looked during the Iowa Caucus...he was never a fan of DNC Chair Tom Perez, who is taking major heat for the disorganization...

I think we should wait until a Dem nominee is selected before we annoint Trump again...


Carville is pretty smart, even tho he sounds like a con...
Abrignac Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
That was during the time that Southern Dems actually had power and influence...they started leaving the party and joining the GOP after the passage of the Civil Rights Act in 1964...most Southern Dems switched to the GOP by the early 90's...now the South is mostly solid Red ...but the pendulum seems to be shifting with black and Latino population growth in some states of the South...

too early to say there'll be four more years...I think Carville was in shock at how inept his party looked during the Iowa Caucus...he was never a fan of DNC Chair Tom Perez, who is taking major heat for the disorganization...

I think we should wait until a Dem nominee is selected before we annoint Trump again...


Carville is pretty smart, even tho he sounds like a con...


It never ceases to amaze me how you play the race card at every opportunity, whether real or perceived. You just can’t seem to admit that it’s not all about racism.

As far as southern Democrats leaving the party because they’re racist, I’d suggest you become more enlightened rather that believing everything spewed by the left. Just because many left the Democratic Party after passage of the Civl Rights, it’s really dumb to say that is the reason they left. Many southern Democrats became Republicans with the election of Ronald Reagan. I don’t recall him leading a racist charge but, I’m sure liberals can make a strong case for such to justify that position.

My father died in on March 23, 2003. My grandfather died 1978. Both were diehard Democrats the day before they died as they were at least 40 years ago. Many more people they associated with when they were politically died having still been Democrats.

While on the subject of racism ponder the reason for the left leaning cities with still segregated neighborhoods. You won’t find a Chinatown, Harlem or East Boston in the south.
delta1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
I'm not saying your daddy or his daddy were racists... but history and numbers show that Dems in the South started switching soon after passage of the Civil Rights Act...even Lyndon B. Johnson, who was the mastermind of the passage of the CRA understood this...

https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south


what do you believe was the reason for the switch?




racists will never see themselves in that way...
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,582
“I’ll have those n*****s voting democrat for 100 years”
delta1 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
we DO know LBJ liked to walk around naked...and that he used the N word...

and blacks vote Dems by more than 8-1 margin over the GOP historically...Trump actually bagged a higher percentage (8%) of blacks than McCain and Romney, but less than the 12% black vote the GOP usually garner...
Abrignac Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
I'm not saying your daddy or his daddy were racists... but history and numbers show that Dems in the South started switching soon after passage of the Civil Rights Act...even Lyndon B. Johnson, who was the mastermind of the passage of the CRA understood this...

https://www.history.com/news/how-the-party-of-lincoln-won-over-the-once-democratic-south


what do you believe was the reason for the switch?




racists will never see themselves in that way...


Perhaps you should look at other political changes taking place around the same time. Statistical data can be made to confirm most anything, true or not.
Abrignac Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
By relying on statistics one simply regurgitates what the author of the study wants them to believe.
Abrignac Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
It it were me, I’d look deeper into laws being passed. People of the south have historically been opposed to government intrusion. Yet, many of those intrusions have absolutely ZERO to do with racism and more about economics. Unfortunately, that doesn’t fit the racist narrative n
Abrignac Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
Empirical data and an open mind is your friend.
delta1 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
OK, show me some source material for that position...
Gene363 Online
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,799
Abrignac wrote:
James Carville: I've never 'seen the Democratic Party suffer a case of political amnesia this bad'

BY JAMES CARVILLE FEB 9, 2020 - 6:00 AM

...If we don’t win this election, no policy on the progressive spectrum — no matter how big or small — has a shot of becoming real. How about that for a purity test?...

James Carville is a political consultant from New Orleans.


Most reassuring, Carville is a snake, but a smart one.
Abrignac Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
OK, show me some source material for that position...


I’m not going to do your homework. But, in subsequent post I gave you a trail to follow.
Mr. Jones Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,419
James carvelle ways always a LONG BAG OF HOT AIR ..TALKED LIKE A SPEED FREAK ON A 9 DAY JAG WITH A VERY BAD SOUTHERN DRAWL...

HE STILL IS...

HE lost Me in paragraph three...
delta1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
OK...another source said the exodus started earlier...to oppose the effort to desegregate...they were energized in opposition to Brown v Board of Education...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats



another source said the Dixiecrats started in Alabama in 1948 to maintain segregation...

http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477
Krazeehorse Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
I hate it when Carville is right. We will see how much influence he actually has. It would seem the left side of the party ran Pelosi over and I would say she has more juice than he does now.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
If James Carville and Van Jones are uttering what they're saying on tv about the DNC chances...all I have to say is here's you shovel. Keep digging!Herfing
delta1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Abrignac wrote:
It it were me, I’d look deeper into laws being passed. People of the south have historically been opposed to government intrusion. Yet, many of those intrusions have absolutely ZERO to do with racism and more about economics. Unfortunately, that doesn’t fit the racist narrative n



seems a lot of the laws had to do with segregation...
delta1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If James Carville and Van Jones are uttering what they're saying on tv about the DNC chances...all I have to say is here's you shovel. Keep digging!Herfing



could also be interpreted as keep sounding the alarm...wake the voters up...


this is like a pregnancy...we'll know what it is in nine months...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,394
delta1 wrote:
could also be interpreted as keep sounding the alarm...wake the voters up...


this is like a pregnancy...we'll know what it is in nine months...



That ship sailed back in 2016.

People have results to show now that they are in step with what's going on despite your best effort to play an ostrich.

Also, the tide is turning.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/can-trump-earn-black-support-11579133622

His polling numbers are better than they were in January!
Abrignac Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
OK...another source said the exodus started earlier...to oppose the effort to desegregate...they were energized in opposition to Brown v Board of Education...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats



another source said the Dixiecrats started in Alabama in 1948 to maintain segregation...

http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/article/h-1477


Wikipedia, an open platform is now considered a historical source?

You must have missed the paragraph in your second quote where it stated that some of the Dixicrats returned to the Democratic Party and some became independents. So this serves no purpose since it quantifies nothing.

Again, quit trying to prove your position and follow the facts. You stated one was the other, but you’ve proved nothing except that you’re willing to blindly follow your own preconceived thoughts on racism.
delta1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
true, his recent approval number is the highest since he entered the Oval Office...


if he ever gets above 50%...
Whistlebritches Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Being intellectually honest here............The dems have pandered to minorities offering everything but the kitchen sink since the 60's for a vote but have done little to improve their lives.If anything I would say liberals are the very reason many minorities get left behind.Under liberal mind think many families and their young impressionable children are taught early on that they cannot make it on their own...…..so they must lean on big gubmint to sustain throughout life.I read this "if we keep them poor and dependent we can always count on their vote".This is an opinion I share with many conservatives.

These are facts about the dem party that are undeniable.Opposing voter ID screams support for voter fraud.States have made it easier than ever to get a valid photo ID but dems sit in opposition of this.The only logical reason is they want illegals and the dead to keep supporting their evil ideas.

Opposing the wall between the US and Mexico...….Can you come up with any reason at all to oppose this other than democrats attempting to build their government subsidized voter base,security be damned.Growing up in ranch country one of the first things learned...."Good fences make good neighbors"

I won't even go into abortion on demand...….too much of a hot topic but I think must understand why the dems support it.


What has popped up recently that scares me is this demand by the left wing nuts to remove the video of Pelosi tearing up Trumps SOTU speech claiming it's fake news because it was edited.Really???So the pure as the driven snow left doesn't care for the edit job on factual events.As a conservative all I can say is tough schit,beaten at your own game because you elected a **** ing vodka soaked clown to preside over congress.In the article below you will see that FB and Twitter sided against the left claiming there is nothing dishonest in the video,it is all factual......HOLY SCHIT!!!Never thought I would see that.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/09/nancy-pelosi-trump-state-of-the-union-video-twitter-facebook

Lastly I'll get back on topic...…...The economy under Trump is growing at an unprecedented rate.That IMNSHO is the best reason I can think of to vote against your party.All arguments here accepted but let it be known,you are going to look like a fool.

All that being said...…..I love all you guys,even the misguided few that disagree with me politically.I also apologize in advance...…..I do not express myself well in type.
Abrignac Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
delta1 wrote:
seems a lot of the laws had to do with segregation...


There were many laws that had nothing to do with racism. But, you’ve proven that’s the only talking points which interest you.
delta1 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
Abrignac wrote:
Wikipedia, an open platform is now considered a historical source?

You must have missed the paragraph in your second quote where it stated that some of the Dixicrats returned to the Democratic Party and some became independents. So this serves no purpose since it quantifies nothing.

Again, quit trying to prove your position and follow the facts. You stated one was the other, but you’ve proved nothing except that you’re willing to blindly follow your own preconceived thoughts on racism.


you're picking out tangents from the general over-all discussion, parts that differ from the articles' conclusion, to try to disprove the larger factual basis presented...
delta1 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
this is like deja vu, Ant...I remember our back and forth a couple of years ago....

about the effort to pass voter restriction laws in a lot of states where the GOP wanted to maintain their advantage...despite several articles where the authors of those bills said their intent was to support votes among the poor and minorities and videos showing the same thing, you would not agree...you accepted their argument that they were combating voter fraud, even though the proponents of those measures did not present evidence of fraud..
Abrignac Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,263
While on the subject, it seems you think anyone who is conservative or who supports Trumps economic agenda is racist. That means you think I’m racist. If you polled everyone who knows me, past or present white, black, brown or yellow; I doubt any of them who say I’m racist. Yet, you choose to lump us all together since we have different viewpoints. Well, I served this country in the military. I did so to protect your right to make whatever inflammatory comment you desire. Given the choice to do it again, I’d gladly serve to protect anyone’s right to believe anything they want even if I disagree.
delta1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,778
no Ant...I do not believe you are a racist...not the least...after we met at MACS' house, we became friends immediately...we have had many opportunities to speak in person, and I have never thought that about you...and I hope our exchanges of ideas here in the politics forum does not change your opinion of our friendship, or of me...I do appreciate your service to our country, and all that makes you who you are...

when I am posting about issues of race, I'm speaking in generalities, which I know is a lazy and sometimes offensive way of expressing ideas...but trying to clarify and make continuous efforts to avoid broad brushing whole swaths of people would make posting some ideas tedious and time consuming...every conservative is not the same, just as every lib isn't the same...there are some libs who are not respectable and are racists, while there are many cons I admire...everybody here seems to use the short-cut: all libs...all cons...

I know many conservatives who support Trump...family members: wife, couple brothers-in law, daughter, son-in-law...friends including you, MACS and Opel....none of them are racists...

I know it grates on many people in this forum, cons and libs, when I mention racism...I believe it still exists in America...just not as openly as when racism was authorized by law...there are still people alive who lived during days when it was legal to discriminate on the basis of race: some were discriminators while others were discriminated against...some Americans and CBidders believe racism has been eradicated...

the rise of white nationalism and its racist philosophy should be a concern for every citizen...it was a primary mission of a federal, state and local law enforcement task force that I served with in the 90's to combat that domestic terrorist threat...then 9/11 happened and diverted attention to Islamic terrorism...given the recent rise in violence by white nationalists, they are now back in focus among law enforcement agencies, led by the feds...

I also believe that every American has the right to speak and to believe...even if I disagree. But as a society, we have an obligation to protect the whole against the offensive and dangerous extremists who push hatred of some, others who are different...
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