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Last post 4 years ago by tonygraz. 18 replies replies.
Hey military and ex military folks
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teedubbya Offline
#1 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 12:47 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Curious your opinion on Capt. Brett Crozier. I have mixed emotions but am curious for your thoughts.
fishinguitarman Offline
#2 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 12:56 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
You don’t care... why pretend?
teedubbya Offline
#3 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Um. Ok.

Others?
engletl Offline
#4 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 1:55 PM EST
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
If the media accounts are true and he put the letter out in a blast to more than was needed AND skipped his chain of command...well, being removed from command is the s.o.p.

However, if that rear admiral was the "problem" that he felt warranted said actions, he should have at least minimized the # of recipients.

Either way he should have anticipated backlash. Hopefully his crew has his back of the rear admiral was the issue.

I will add that I am still trying to read through all the he said/they said and develop what a timeline of all the actions supposedly transpired.
teedubbya Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 3:50 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
engletl wrote:
If the media accounts are true and he put the letter out in a blast to more than was needed AND skipped his chain of command...well, being removed from command is the s.o.p.

However, if that rear admiral was the "problem" that he felt warranted said actions, he should have at least minimized the # of recipients.

Either way he should have anticipated backlash. Hopefully his crew has his back of the rear admiral was the issue.

I will add that I am still trying to read through all the he said/they said and develop what a timeline of all the actions supposedly transpired.



Thank you sir. Similar here. I have to follow a chain of command or expect ramifications. Sometimes it is worth suffering the consequences others not.

I don’t know enough on this one. It just startles me to see the gap between senior leadership and/or the admin and the sailors who were praising him.
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 4:23 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
It is never a great idea to announce to the entire world that our operational aircraft carrier in the Pacific is actually disabled.
tonygraz Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 6:30 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,243
The military doesn't like leaders that care about their people. They can't take the truth all the way up the ladder.
ArmandL Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 8:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-04-2020
Posts: 1
I respect what he did for his men. It showed integrity. DUTY FIRST!
izonfire Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Apr 6 2020, 10:24 PM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
ArmandL wrote:
I respect what he did for his men. It showed integrity. DUTY FIRST!

But would you sacrifice you arm and leg for him?
USNGunner Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Apr 7 2020, 7:45 AM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
engletl nailed it.

When I read that letter and saw who he had sent it too, I knew it was over. He had to have known that as well. One does not jump the chain of command. Especially at that level. I also don't know what he expected to gain, They're sitting in Guam, and there are EXTREMELY limited options for support available there. One does not just turn off the key on a carrier and go ashore.

It smells like a stunt to me. He lost.
delta1 Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Apr 7 2020, 5:49 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
not in the eyes of his men...they respect him because he stuck his neck out for them...it was just a matter of time if they followed the procedures from above, before many more became infected and some became severely ill, or worse...

his complaint expedited the process and got many of them out of harms way...


the acting Sect'y of the Navy who fired the Captain was himself fired...
MACS Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Apr 7 2020, 6:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,770
If you're the captain of an aircraft carrier, you didn't get there because you're an idiot. He was obviously well qualified or he never would have attained the rank of captain and command of a carrier.

I will give my opinion based on assumptions. I assume he brought the problem to the attention of his boss, and his bosses boss first. I will further assume he did not get the answer from either of them that he thought he and his crew deserved and then he did what he did for the good of his crew and at the detriment of his own career. KNOWINGLY.

If that's the case... he has my utmost respect for tanking his own career for the safety of his crew.

We have 10 carriers. Losing one in a time of peace isn't that big a deal. I have to assume (again) his response would have been different if we were at war. Whether our enemies know it or they don't... the carrier is down and will be for a bit.
delta1 Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Apr 7 2020, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
I spoke out of line...I'm not military or former military...but have experience with chain of command through career in law enforcement, working with many former military...

my thoughts match MACS's
MACS Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Apr 7 2020, 9:52 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,770
Seeing clips of his crew shouting as he was leaving... "Cap-tain Cro-zier... clap-clap, clap-clap-clap".

His crew fully supports him... which makes me believe my assumptions were accurate. When his admiral boss then went to speak with the crew, he got no support... and now the acting Secretary of the Navy has resigned. That pretty much cements my assumptions.
Mandobro Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Apr 9 2020, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 04-10-2013
Posts: 714
Combat readiness is classified information. Crew health is part of combat readiness and, therefore, classified information. It's my opinion he knew what he was doing and knew he would be relieved.
Whistlebritches Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2020, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Like Mando and Macs said....... it would appear he fell on his sword.I have much respect for his actions but his methods leave room for improvement.Maybe there was no other way........I won't Monday Morning Quarterback this,he knew his career was over before he ever hit send.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Apr 10 2020, 6:40 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,412
Whistlebritches wrote:
Like Mando and Macs said....... it would appear he fell on his sword.I have much respect for his actions but his methods leave room for improvement.Maybe there was no other way........I won't Monday Morning Quarterback this,he knew his career was over before he ever hit send.


+1

When you jump over the chain of command...even if you're 100% right, you're 100% wrong for doing it.
tonygraz Offline
#18 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,243
Looks like he did the right thing for his crew as the covid cases add up.
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