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Should K-12 Be Required To Go Back to School Full Time This Fall?
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
President Trump is mandating the opening of public schools.
Teachers and parents are very concerned that it will be too soon.
What do you think?
Speyside Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Good question Robert. I wish we knew the correct answer.
rfenst Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
How about waiting for a rapid covid-19 test that gives results right away? Kids might not get sick from covid, but they can easily be "silent carriers". Some teachers are at high risk. I am for a modified reopening with parents having the option to home school. We need to have a better handle on covid before full return should be implemented. Threats to withhold federal funds are inappropriate under the circumstances when reopening will be far more expensive than local schools have budgeted for. I think this is a decision to be made state by state and school board by school board.
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
Speyside wrote:
Good question Robert. I wish we knew the correct answer.

There is none.
CarsonTheCat Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2020
Posts: 522
I think it's extremely risky and downright negligent to use scare tactics to try and open up the schools for in-person learning in the fall. My wife is a middle school teacher in one of the hardest hit areas of Providence, with a very high infection rate. She is also at high risk due to a couple underlying health conditions.

Yes, everyone wants to see kids go back to school. Yes, kids are at a lower risk when it comes to the virus. But the issue is that they can be carriers, and spread the virus all over the school, infect teachers and other staff, and then students and teachers alike bring it home to their families.

And with the new studies coming out about how this virus aerosolizes, especially indoors and can travel through ventilation systems, it's even scarier to put all these people in one building. There's no way that K-8 students will keep their masks on. High school students, maybe.

A LOT more work needs to be done before they start piling people into a building. It's shown that distance learning DOES work, certainly not in a long term setting, but at least long enough to have fool-proof safety plans in place to avoid an even worse outbreak. With the fall and winter coming up, I believe we will see a high resurgence mixed with cold and flu season.
CelticBomber Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
No good answer? Really? How about.... umm... HELL NO!
Speyside Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Not no fast CB. Catching and spreading COVID 19 is a bad answer. Being set back educationally is a bad answer. I have no dog in the fight but thinking about this can certainly cause a spiral.
izonfire Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
What better way to spread a deadly disease.

Kids already live online.
It’s no too much to expect them to learn online...
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
izonfire wrote:
What better way to spread a deadly disease.

Kids already live online.
It’s no too much to expect them to learn online...

Thankfully, my kids are adults so I don't have a dog in this particular fight.
But closely related, all of one of my kid's college courses for this fall will be online only. Not ideal, except he can live at home and save money rather than spending on rent and such. He'll be able to get a much higher paying job for the year here in Orlando as opposed to Tallahassee. Too bad that his education will suffer.
bgz Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Our district is doing virtual for the time being.

I don't believe there's a defined date where everyone goes back.
CelticBomber Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
Speyside wrote:
Not no fast CB. Catching and spreading COVID 19 is a bad answer. Being set back educationally is a bad answer. I have no dog in the fight but thinking about this can certainly cause a spiral.


Who said anything about being set back? Between the choices of teleconferencing, video chat, home schooling or catch a potentially deadly disease I don't think it's a hard decision to make. I don't think there's a decision there at all. Just look at the infection rate. No where else in the world is this bad!
Speyside Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
True, do poor communities have the options you just listed?
Speyside Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I think any community that can do what you stated will.
izonfire Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
Speyside wrote:
True, do poor communities have the options you just listed?

Oh, there you go again.
You and your “All Lives Matter”

So offensive...
HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
Eliminate the Department of Education.
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,096
HockeyDad wrote:
Eliminate the Department of Education.

Nah, just Betsy Devos.
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
Get rid of the department, get rid of Betsy, get rid of an agency that does nothing but use the threat of money to force behavior.
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
We need to send the children back to school as soon as possible.
Those parents who can't get to work because they can't leave their kids at the state 13 year daycare plan need to get back out there and boot-strap us some new economy. That's not gonna happen when little johnny is sitting at home all day playing with his joystick.

tailgater Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
A lot of things in motion with this one.

Kids need to go back to school.
Online can teach book stuff, but as homeschooling has taught us kids need the social interaction as much, if not more, than the book stuff.
Maybe a university style hybrid style would allow for lower crowds: johnny in school M and W, Billy in school Tue and Thurs, with Friday as a floater to be used as seen fit.

But as far as the feds flexing their authority, it's 100% necessary.
There are few school administrators with the intestinal fortitude to make this decision. Nobody wants to be the final "yes" when there is an obvious potential for sickness and death. A superintendent or a school committee aren't qualified to make decisions for the greater good. Hell, in our area they close school at the mere mention of snow. You think they'll send sally to school when the C-19 lurks in the shadows?

And then the bigger picture that nobody wants to address.
Teachers.
If courses go 100% online then it would be realistic to let some of the staff go. Lay them off. Because student teacher ratio becomes less of a concern when everything is electronic.
The unions won't allow this, mind you. But if you want kids back in the building just bring it up at the next meeting.
And while we're at it, may as well fire all the coaches now. Or eliminate the extra stipend they get for coaching. Or any other extracurricular activity that pads the weekly paycheck. And fire the janitors, since there's nothing to clean. And the lunch ladies, warts and all.

Or, let the lowest risk population against this virus go on doing what they should be doing.

Turn off the TV and cancel the newspaper. Read the statistics that show the under 20 crowd are more likely to die from pneumonia than from covid.
Stop the fear mongering.
Stop the bleeding heart approach that we can't peek outside until there is a vaccine.

One life is too many. When it's your own family you won't care about the numbers. But that's why we need to move to forward. because Me and You and nobody else is supposed to be forced to make these decisions.
We should be thanking the feds for doing it for us.


Mr. Jones Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,357
What about the TEACHERS JOBS??

JUST TRY AND FORLOUGH THE TEACHERS UNION...
THAT DOG DON'T H.U.N.T.
CelticBomber Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
A lot of things in motion with this one.

Kids need to go back to school.
Online can teach book stuff, but as homeschooling has taught us kids need the social interaction as much, if not more, than the book stuff.
Maybe a university style hybrid style would allow for lower crowds: johnny in school M and W, Billy in school Tue and Thurs, with Friday as a floater to be used as seen fit.

But as far as the feds flexing their authority, it's 100% necessary.
There are few school administrators with the intestinal fortitude to make this decision. Nobody wants to be the final "yes" when there is an obvious potential for sickness and death. A superintendent or a school committee aren't qualified to make decisions for the greater good. Hell, in our area they close school at the mere mention of snow. You think they'll send sally to school when the C-19 lurks in the shadows?

And then the bigger picture that nobody wants to address.
Teachers.
If courses go 100% online then it would be realistic to let some of the staff go. Lay them off. Because student teacher ratio becomes less of a concern when everything is electronic.
The unions won't allow this, mind you. But if you want kids back in the building just bring it up at the next meeting.
And while we're at it, may as well fire all the coaches now. Or eliminate the extra stipend they get for coaching. Or any other extracurricular activity that pads the weekly paycheck. And fire the janitors, since there's nothing to clean. And the lunch ladies, warts and all.

Or, let the lowest risk population against this virus go on doing what they should be doing.

Turn off the TV and cancel the newspaper. Read the statistics that show the under 20 crowd are more likely to die from pneumonia than from covid.
Stop the fear mongering.
Stop the bleeding heart approach that we can't peek outside until there is a vaccine.

One life is too many. When it's your own family you won't care about the numbers. But that's why we need to move to forward. because Me and You and nobody else is supposed to be forced to make these decisions.
We should be thanking the feds for doing it for us.




So, blood and money to try and get back to the way things were or blood and money to change. It's not as simple as a light switch I know. But, before we do anything, we should decide which choice suits our new reality. Acting like nothing has changed has never gotten anyone very far. The broad strokes we paint now will decide the details down the road.
CarsonTheCat Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2020
Posts: 522
My wife, according to the CDC, is a high risk teacher, so she will do whatever she needs to to not step foot in that building. They have to make reasonable accommodations for at risk people, even if that means students are back in the building, but she is home doing distance teaching. That job, and the students, are not worth her health or her life. I'm not going to possibly lose the love of my life because people want to get kids back into school before the safety of ALL can be assured.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
My kids will not be going back... if the district finds a way to do distance learning we'll do that... otherwise it'll be a home schooling deal of some sort...
ZRX1200 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,473
How is he “mandating it” refenster?

As far as I know the only action he even discussed taking was withoulding EXTRA school funding to deal with COVID for schools that plan to open FROM schools who DON’T Plan to open.
izonfire Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
Is one year of online schooling worth the thousands of lives saved?
Maybe I'll ask again after your loved one dies from it...
CarsonTheCat Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2020
Posts: 522
izonfire wrote:
Is one year of online schooling worth the thousands of lives saved?
Maybe I'll ask again after your loved one dies from it...


ThumpUp My thoughts exactly Izon!

My wife's school, especially, has shown that the students actually did BETTER on distance learning! About 50% MORE of the students were participating and submitting assignments on time via distance learning as opposed to in-person learning.

It's working, and our cases are going down here because people are doing the right thing. Why fix it if it ain't completely broken? Continue with something that is working and is safe for all involved....
opelmanta1900 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Online learning is the future... there's no need to regress... schools should be converted to gathering places for social events - sports, clubs, etc... there's literally zero reason to resume our archaic and outdated methodologies...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
victor809 wrote:
We need to send the children back to school as soon as possible.
Those parents who can't get to work because they can't leave their kids at the state 13 year daycare plan need to get back out there and boot-strap us some new economy. That's not gonna happen when little johnny is sitting at home all day playing with his joystick.


I'll admit it, I have no idea if you're serious or not... i couldn't have presented a better sarcastic argument but I'm not convinced you mean it that way...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I'll admit it, I have no idea if you're serious or not... i couldn't have presented a better sarcastic argument but I'm not convinced you mean it that way...

+1
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
izonfire wrote:
Is one year of online schooling worth the thousands of lives saved?
Maybe I'll ask again after your loved one dies from it...


I already lost Speyside.
HockeyDad Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
The controversy over reopening schools is overblown. We already know the solution. Open the schools and everyone wears a mask. Problem solved and nobody gets ‘Rona.
HockeyDad Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
...and make everyone take STEM classes.
CelticBomber Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
HockeyDad wrote:
The controversy over reopening schools is overblown. We already know the solution. Open the schools and everyone wears a mask. Problem solved and nobody gets ‘Rona.



Not sure if serious?
delta1 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
he's not...

HD's like the rest of us...blindfolded and sticking a hand up an elephant's butt and trying to guess what we touched...
HockeyDad Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
Well that’s vivid imagery
victor809 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Meh... I'm not sure if I'm sarcastic either.
The issue is much more complex than your average cbidiot is going to delve into... So why bother? Twitler came out strongly "pro opening" and "anti CDC guidelines to reduce risk".

Keeping schools closed indefinitely is not a viable plan... Those people who cannot work because of lack of daycare options cannot go without jobs indefinitely. I watch the construction workers in our neighborhood have been bringing their kids to the job site since the schools closed.

Anyway. There's no real good solution, but partisans are going to tell you what they think is the best solution. But the reality is this is a situation where what is best will be very specific to each family.

And the irony of some here saying the administration at the federal level is "qualified" to make these decisions... When the president is currently contradicting the federal agencies and experts...

But of course, we know that
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,143
HockeyDad wrote:
The controversy over reopening schools is overblown. We already know the solution. Open the schools and everyone wears a mask. Problem solved and nobody gets ‘Rona.

What, no hydroxychloroquine?

Mcdanielsamuel Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 04-28-2020
Posts: 611
I have no problem teaching my kids at home. It is my responsibility as a parent. It would be harder to do than sending them to school. The social aspect needs to be explored though. Lots of folks are struggling with the social isolation of this virus. Most pandemics, society gets to rally together; now we rally apart.
frankj1 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
opelmanta1900 wrote:
+1

does this violate a forum rule?

CelticBomber Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
frankj1 wrote:
does this violate a forum rule?




Is it time to get the tar and feathers ready? Pray Pray Pray Pray
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
one basic rule that's been firmly established from the start of the pandemic: Don't listen to what Trump says.


he's gotten it wrong every time he opens his mouth...and enough people do what he says...so here we are
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
I say open Trump University and make DeVoss audit every course there
HockeyDad Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,063
So it looks like we’re all good with opening the schools as long as everyone wears a mask.
delta1 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,753
here are the CDC guidelines for re-opening schools safely...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/schools.html

Trump has dismissed them and wants schools fully re-opened, so CDC is re-working the guidelines...
izonfire Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
CelticBomber wrote:
Is it time to get the tar and feathers ready? [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<

I'm sure you've already got the feathers ready...
opelmanta1900 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
frankj1 wrote:
does this violate a forum rule?


I'm too proud to admit to an accidental double post... had to get creative...
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I'm too proud to admit to an accidental double post... had to get creative...

I'm buying it
frankj1 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
opelmanta1900 wrote:
I'm too proud to admit to an accidental double post... had to get creative...

I'm buying it.











izonfire Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
I’m returning it.
izonfire Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,642
Again...
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