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THE PRESIDENT’S TAXES: LONG-CONCEALED RECORDS SHOW TRUMP’S CHRONIC LOSSES AND YEARS OF TAX AVOIDANCE
tonygraz Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 14,628
I heard that Putin found that guy for him..
opelmanta1900 Online
#52 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 12,908
Americans really are terrible at fairytales... Russian friendships this and low tax bills that...

Now the Germans, they can spin a yarn! Children being eaten by witches, vengeful Christmas demons...

You want your kids to live right, you raise em on German fairytales...
Smooth light Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
TZ with the russian crap again!💩

3/4of imaginations to justify your spin, leave out the 1/4of the facts, that reveals the truth.

It's national coffee ☕ day, and some tequila in it.
🌮🌮 finish with flan.
Smooth light Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
TZ with the russian crap again!💩

3/4of imaginations to justify your spin, leave out the 1/4of the facts, that reveals the truth.

It's national coffee ☕ day, and some tequila in it.
🌮🌮 finish with flan.
Brewha Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,560
ZRX1200 wrote:
What’s the debt vs assets? I love partial truth arguments.....


Also, the half white guy had direct ties to convicted terrorists and you didn’t seem to care.


I take it you do not know his debt vs assets, but are asking me?


Come on Z - just type "but Hillary". Less letters.
Smooth light Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
Double post, to much tequila in coffee ☕.
Sooooooooo ssssssooooorrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyy!
frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 36,512
flan? haven't had any in a few years.
Great stuff when made by a pro.
tonygraz Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 14,628
We had it on occasion when I was young and later in life in my travels to Cancun.
rfenst Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
opelmanta1900 wrote:
He's got a good tax guy... that's all i got from the nyt fairytale...

The tax/business angle was more interesting to me than the anti-Trump stuff.
delta1 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,776
who was subpoena'ed by the SDNY a couple years ago, investigating Michael Cohen...and was granted immunity...Cohen found guilty, and implicated Trump ...

Cohen testified before Congress that Trump falsified financial records to obtain loans and to avoid taxes...

Trump will prolly pardon himself from federal prosecution before he leaves office...

but he will remain exposed for state tax law violations...I'm guessing his tax attorney will be involved in that as well...




kinda ironic that Trump attacked Obama for his paltry tax payment in 2012... the amount works out to about $162,000 paid by Obama in federal taxes...that same year Trump paid ZERO taxes!!!

Trump's tweet from 2012:

"@BarackObama
who wants to raise all our taxes, only pays 20.5% on $790k salary. http://1.usa.gov/HFZJKH Do as I say not as I do."
fiddler898 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,547
While we’re admiring the way Trump scams the system, let’s have a few huzzahs for the grifters, the welfare queens and illegals who do the same.
delta1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,776
this kinda explains how we have reached this point...the wealth gap between few haves and a huge number of have nots

there are enough Americans who accept, approve and excuse that the wealthiest among us, the entitled elite, cheat and scam the system by writing self serving laws and engage in unscrupulous accounting maneuvers not available to most of us, to avoid paying taxes ...

and yet are willing to silently pay their fair share as long as their fellow average Americans are doing likewise...
HockeyDad Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 39,414
delta1 wrote:
this kinda explains how we have reached this point...the wealth gap between few haves and a huge number of have nots

there are enough Americans who accept, approve and excuse that the wealthiest among us, the entitled elite, cheat and scam the system by writing self serving laws and engage in unscrupulous accounting maneuvers not available to most of us, to avoid paying taxes ...

and yet are willing to silently pay their fair share as long as their fellow average Americans are doing likewise...



You just described socialism and the Democrats perfectly. California is the perfect example.
fiddler898 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,547
HockeyDad wrote:
You just described socialism and the Democrats perfectly. California is the perfect example.

Or the Trump inner circle...


https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/20/politics/trump-bannon-law-associates/index.html
Mr. Jones Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 13,026
I don't pay no $750

I paY

z
E
R
O
frankj1 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 36,512
Mr. Jones wrote:
I don't pay no $750

I paY

z
E
R
O

you want me and Drafter should pay for you?
CelticBomber Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 5,794
frankj1 wrote:
you want me and Drafter should pay for you?



"Drafter and Frank may have moved slow, but it was only because Drafter and Frank didn't have to move for anybody."
delta1 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,776
HockeyDad wrote:
You just described socialism and the Democrats perfectly. California is the perfect example.


disagree...

I expect, as do most Americans, at least until Trump came along, that everybody pays their fair share of taxes
Smooth light Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
Mr jones,but did you get payed for paying zero? No morals, take the benefits but not paying your fair share of taxes, unethical!

There's a lot of us tired carrying you're azz.

RayR Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 717
delta1 wrote:
disagree...

I expect, as do most Americans, at least until Trump came along, that everybody pays their fair share of taxes


47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income taxes. I say that is progress, when it gets to 100% that'll be a day to celebrate. For you "fair share" Obamaites, there is no such thing as a “fair share” of redistributionist taxation, “fair share” are just weasel words like "social justice". Who determines what “fair share” is and what is your fair share of your humungous and unaccountable government and its spending addictions? In reality your fair share doesn't cover crap, so if you really believe in the fair share theory you owe a lot more fair share to pay for your out of control government and its legal plunder. Stop being so cheap to your masta's, pay more than they demand, get your check book out and pay up. There are a lot of voracious tax eaters that are in need of your fair share.
Smooth light Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
If you want a bigger piece of pie, make the pie bigger,then we all get more in our slice.🍕.

rfenst Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
Terms like "fair share" and "social justice" are 100% subjective and vague.
delta1 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,776
OK, I will be more precise...each American expects that every citizen will pay what they are legally obligated to pay, given their income, current tax rate schedules, and permissible credits and deductions...tax avoidance is legally permissible if done without fraud, but the majority of Americans generally frown on those who are high income earners and pay no taxes...
Smooth light Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
Your a fool! we worked hard, long, and honestly for it, not to give it away with no say.
Share the wealth,hell,get your own!
Don't expect something for nothing. If we give you some, you wouldn't appreciate it anyway.

Anyone for a bigger size 🍕?
BuckyB93 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 9,257
I just do the HR Block or TurboTax or whatever software. Fill in the W-2, 1099's and stuff that for a 1040 return. I don't have a business, no crazy investments or anything funky. Standard deductions that any other average Joe shmow would have. I don't make enough money or smart enough to where I have to figure out how to hide it.

The only thing I try to do is not have them withhold so much that I get a big return (makes zero sense to give the government a free loan of my money) or owe so much that I have to write a big check at tax time. Just try to break even come April 15th every year.

And no, I do not save my receipts from my purchases in New Hampshire. If Mass wants my tax money for the stuff that I buy over the border, then they can lower the tax rate here. Until then they can go pound sand.
rfenst Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
Trump’s tax deductions are open to interpretation

Associated Press
NEW YORK — The massive losses Donald Trump has claimed on his tax returns were reportedly due at least in part to the huge deductions he took against the income his businesses made before and after he became president.
A key question is whether those deductions reported by The New York Times were excessive and possibly illegal; they enabled Trump to avoid millions of dollars in taxes.

Trump reportedly wrote off millions of dollars for taxes and other expenses on real estate properties he used personally but claimed were businesses or owned as an investment. He also deducted millions of dollars in unexplained consultants’ fees, including fees paid to his daughter Ivanka. Other notable deductions included $70,000 for hairstyling and expenses for Trump’s private aircraft. It would be up to the IRS, which is auditing some of Trump’s returns, to decide whether the deductions are legitimate.

According to the IRS, businesses may deduct expenses if they’re ordinary and necessary. The agency defines an ordinary expense as one that’s common and accepted in a company’s trade or type of business. Expenses are considered necessary if they’re helpful and appropriate in a trade or business.

Consider dinner expenses. It wouldn’t be unusual for a financial adviser to spend $25,000 or more a year to take wealthy clients out. But the IRS would frown on a small retailer or printing company owner trying to deduct a similar amount. The standards of ordinary and necessary are open to interpretation — and also abuse.
“Some activities and transactions are perfectly legal. Then it goes on to aggressive but OK and then it starts to get shady, followed by malfeasance, tax fraud and criminal tax fraud,” says Steven Rosenthal, a fellow at the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, a think tank.

According to The Times, Trump has treated some of his residences as businesses, in the process deducting millions of dollars. An estate north of New York City used by the Trump family for years is classified as an investment property, allowing Trump to deduct $2.2 million in property taxes since 2014, the Times says. Trump has also taken hundreds of thousands of dollars in deductions for supplies and services at his home and private club in Florida.

“The question is, did they take only those amounts that were attributable to the business or did they take the entire amount?” says Andrew Finkle, a partner with Philadelphia accounting firm Marcum LLP. “You can’t use the entirety of the club as a deduction if the club is used for personal use as well.”

The IRS requires owners to calculate how much time personal property — which can include vehicles as well as real property — was actually used for business, and to prorate a deduction accordingly.

If Trump indeed stayed at the estate, he could not legally claim the full $2.2 million in taxes. Moreover, under the tax legislation Trump signed into law in 2017, he would have been limited to $10,000 a year in property tax deductions for 2018.

Similarly, Trump has claimed his aircraft as a business expense even as he used it to fly between his homes and properties and during his 2016 campaign, the Times says. An examination of aircraft records should show the flights’ origins and destinations, and whether there were business associates among the passengers, or only Trump and friends and family. If the latter, the deduction could be improper.

“There are specific guidelines that say you have to maintain a flight log and show the allocation of business versus personal,” says Gary Duboff, a partner in the accounting firm MBAF in New York.

The Times also reported that Trump deducted more than $70,000 for hair styling while he was appearing on “The Apprentice.” Trump can argue that having a hit TV show required him to hire a high-priced stylist to look his best, but the IRS might consider that lavish and therefore non-deductible. Perhaps more questionable are deductions of $95,000 for hair and makeup styling for Ivanka Trump.

The Times also reported that Trump allocated $26 million — roughly a fifth of his income — for consulting fees on projects for which he earned millions of dollars. One example the Times gave was $1.1 million paid on a $5 million hotel deal he had in Azerbaijan. The records obtained by the Times did not explain these fees, but his daughter Ivanka, a Trump Organization executive, appeared to have received nearly $750,000 in such fees.

It would be illegal under IRS law for Ivanka Trump to do work as an employee while being paid as a consultant because that would enable Donald Trump to evade employment taxes on her consulting work while also giving him a deduction.

It also could be a gift in disguise, Duboff says.

“You’ve just given $750,000 before taxes to a family member without having to pay a gift tax,” he says.
delta1 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 23,776
Fat Shady...look at him walking around grabbing her you know whats...

(paraphrasing Eminem)
rfenst Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
The Swamp That Trump Built
A businessman-president transplanted favor-seeking in Washington to his family’s hotels and resorts — and earned millions as a gatekeeper to his own administration.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/10/10/us/trump-properties-swamp.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
MACS Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 69,557
What sane person doesn't take every tax credit or tax advantage possible when doing their taxes??

I will say it again, don't like it? Change the fkn tax code.

A flat tax with zero deductions would be the fairest possible solution. Everyone pays the same exact rate. Wealthy pay more since they make more.
RayR Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 717
MACS wrote:
What sane person doesn't take every tax credit or tax advantage possible when doing their taxes??

I will say it again, don't like it? Change the fkn tax code.

A flat tax with zero deductions would be the fairest possible solution. Everyone pays the same exact rate. Wealthy pay more since they make more.


Good luck with that. There are people a lot more powerful than you and me that laugh at the very idea of a flat tax.
The only fair possible solution is repeal the 16th Amendment and abolish the IRS. Problem solved. No more drama and hysteria about who is or who isn't paying their arbitrary "fair share". We need emancipation from the centralized national state oligarchy.

This is how the tax system works for the powerful elites
Keiser Report | Losing Big to Make it Big
https://youtu.be/EcGrYe2d7oQ



Whistlebritches Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 19,874
MACS wrote:
What sane person doesn't take every tax credit or tax advantage possible when doing their taxes??

I will say it again, don't like it? Change the fkn tax code.

A flat tax with zero deductions would be the fairest possible solution. Everyone pays the same exact rate. Wealthy pay more since they make more.



Been preaching this for years..........**** ing bureaucrats do not want an easy tax code,somebody has to provide for all those useless IRS agents.
Dg west deptford Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 1,115
^Mac's flat tax is the best solution (imho) wasn't that ted cruz platform in 2016?
Post card tax filing - done. Why do lefty socialists not accept that? Could never understand the resistance to the sound logic.
Ray ray will doubtless explain logic and progressivism don't mix
rfenst Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
MACS wrote:
What sane person doesn't take every tax credit or tax advantage possible when doing their taxes??

I will say it again, don't like it? Change the fkn tax code.

A flat tax with zero deductions would be the fairest possible solution. Everyone pays the same exact rate. Wealthy pay more since they make more. What sane person doesn't take every tax credit or tax advantage possible when doing their taxes??

I will say it again, don't like it? Change the fkn tax code.



Flat income tax vs. graduated tax vs. federal sales tax only, etc., etc. For each and every type of tax here are good and bad arguments for each side. You know, the regressive vs. progressive stuff. But, there is no such thing as fair because "fair" is a purely subjective concept.

FWIW, I'm sure we all take every single tax write-off and deduction possible. No one should begrudge Trump for that.

However, there are allegation(s) that he valued assets as low as possible for tax purposes and then inflated those very same asset values for loan applications (for loans he defaulted on). That's either tax and/ or banking fraud.

Just read some of that article and you will see the allegations that many, many dollars of unreported income in the tens of millions of dollars have been hidden by switching money from one corp to other corps over and over, so many times that the money can't be traced without looking at every one of his 500 or so corps and comparing that to his personal taxes. That is called money laundering.

In one instance, there is $21 million of income that has just disappeared off the books. There is also the money to pay off Stormy Daniels came from a Trump-family, tax-free charity Trump had, but which was closed down due to abuse.

Look, no one is going to convince anyone to change their mind about Trump (or Biden) being good guys or bad guys. There is a plethora of information and articles about all this stuff. I just enjoy reading both sides of it, writing about it, and discussing it here...
YMMV
.
frankj1 Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 36,512
defending him when no one knows the real facts is blind devotion.
calling him guilty at this point is also wishful thinking by opponents.

This is not remotely close to a simple case of allowed deductions we all most certainly take, as we should, vs accidentally using not allowed deductions.

Let's all wait a bit.
RayR Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 717
Dg west deptford wrote:
^Mac's flat tax is the best solution (imho) wasn't that ted cruz platform in 2016?
Post card tax filing - done. Why do lefty socialists not accept that? Could never understand the resistance to the sound logic.
Ray ray will doubtless explain logic and progressivism don't mix


The "progressive income tax" is a pillar of the Communist Manifesto, in case you've never read it, it's the second plank:
"2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax".

It's fundamental to the socialist policies of promoting class warfare and coercive wealth redistribution. That's why they accept it as indispensable and at least it seems logical to them.

Now explain to me the conservative logic that there needs to be a income tax at all. If property rights is a conservative principle, why are many conservatives so eager to support such an obvious violation of property rights in any form?

Frank Chodorov nailed it. From his 1954 book, The Income Tax: Root of All Evil, which I referred to before and I'm sure nobody will have time to read even though its free in ebook formats. https://mises.org/library/income-tax-root-all-evil

Quote:
Income and inheritance taxes imply the denial of private property, and in that are different in principle from all other taxes.
The government says to the citizen: "Your earnings are not exclusively your own; we have a claim on them, and our claim precedes yours; we will allow you to keep some of it, because we recognize your need, not your right; but whatever we grant you for yourself is for us to decide."




Brewha Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,560
RayR wrote:
The "progressive income tax" is a pillar of the Communist Manifesto, in case you've never read it, it's the second plank:
"2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax".

It's fundamental to the socialist policies of promoting class warfare and coercive wealth redistribution. That's why they accept it as indispensable and at least it seems logical to them.

Now explain to me the conservative logic that there needs to be a income tax at all. If property rights is a conservative principle, why are many conservatives so eager to support such an obvious violation of property rights in any form?

Frank Chodorov nailed it. From his 1954 book, The Income Tax: Root of All Evil, which I referred to before and I'm sure nobody will have time to read even though its free in ebook formats. https://mises.org/library/income-tax-root-all-evil






So how would you pay for our “most expensive in the world” military?


Hay, maybe only corporations should pay tax......
rfenst Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
Brewha wrote:
... Hay, maybe only corporations should pay tax......

Well, they ARE "persons" under the 14th amendment. They, get the benefits of America. Why shouldn't they have the same burdens of being American? After all, every person deserves “equal protection of the laws."
Gene363 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 25,587
rfenst wrote:
Well, they ARE "persons" under the 14th amendment. They, get the benefits of America. Why shouldn't they have the same burdens of being American? After all, every person deserves “equal protection of the laws."


Because they are just going to pass on the tax to their customers by raising prices, pressure their suppliers to take less and maybe make do something like get a sweetheart deal on shipping with the USPS and let the taxpayers pay for the discount. It's pretty easy if you own enough politicians in the parliament of whores, Congress.
rfenst Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
Gene363 wrote:
Because they are just going to pass on the tax to their customers by raising prices, pressure their suppliers to take less and maybe make do something like get a sweetheart deal on shipping with the USPS and let the taxpayers pay for the discount. It's pretty easy if you own enough politicians in the parliament of whores, Congress.

Privately owned business have to pay taxes- either by the business on its own or by the owner who get "pass through" income taxes. Why should corps get a break?
Gene363 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 25,587
rfenst wrote:
Privately owned business have to pay taxes- either by the business on its own or by the owner who get "pass through" income taxes. Why should corps get a break?


Corporate welfare $cheerfully$ provided by the parliament of whores.

IMO, they shouldn't get a break, but in general, taxes on corporations will be reflected in their prices, not in their stock or dividends.
Brewha Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 9,560
rfenst wrote:
Well, they ARE "persons" under the 14th amendment. They, get the benefits of America. Why shouldn't they have the same burdens of being American? After all, every person deserves “equal protection of the laws."

While we still work to keep the illusion of democracy alive in this republic, big money still owns the show.

What floors me is how many people line up to support negative taxes for the owners and their companies.
RayR Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 717
Brewha wrote:
So how would you pay for our “most expensive in the world” military?


Hay, maybe only corporations should pay tax......


Do you mean how would the military industrial complex survive without 900 or so U.S. military installations around the world to maintain the hegemony of the U.S. as the policeman of the world, and the Santa Claus of all who desire to benefit from the largess of largest welfare-warfare state of all time? What would all the corporatist welfare queens do without all that wealth redistribution? What would the politicians do without the lobbyists filling there campaign war chests? What would all those governments of the world do without the U.S. happily socializing the cost of their defence?
And that's just what's called national security and defence spending. What about domestic spending?

And you think the real problem is the gubmnet doesn't tax enough?

Joe's gotta plan and Donald's gotta plan and neither plan looks too good.
https://fee.org/articles/national-debt-will-explode-under-biden-or-trump-new-report-shows/


ChileSerranoRanger Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2020
Posts: 1
Gene363 wrote:
Meh, avoiding taxes is the American way.

Nice, good to know so I can imitate mr cheetoman and avoid taxes. After all, its the american way.Boo hoo!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 49,051
ChileSerranoRanger wrote:
Nice, good to know so I can imitate mr cheetoman and avoid taxes. After all, its the american way.Boo hoo!



If you're feeling guilty send the IRS an extra 20% of what you pay. It's like a carbon tax for crybabies.
rfenst Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 32,374
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If you're feeling guilty send the IRS an extra 20% of what you pay. It's like a carbon tax for crybabies.

Better yet, return your social security checks to Treasury every month and then reject your Medicare benefits
Gene363 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 25,587
rfenst wrote:
Better yet, return your social security checks to Treasury every month and then reject your Medicare benefits


If I was refunded all the money I've paid into SS and Medicare with a reasonable amount of interest, I would gladly give them up. I started saying the former when I was 15.
RayR Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 717
Gene363 wrote:
If I was refunded all the money I've paid into SS and Medicare with a reasonable amount of interest, I would gladly give them up. I started saying the former when I was 15.


Oh don't be fooiish, don't you know that the gubment knows better what to do with your money than a silly prole like you?
You need to be sent to a progressive re-education camp, how did they let you slip threw their greasy fingers since you were 15?
Smooth light Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 1,272
Corp. pay your taxes, but you'll "NEVER GET TO VOTE" , only con us to get more control/power.

Gene363 Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 25,587
RayR wrote:
Oh don't be fooiish, don't you know that the gubment knows better what to do with your money than a silly prole like you?
You need to be sent to a progressive re-education camp, how did they let you slip threw their greasy fingers since you were 15?


True...

They avoid places where people actually work.
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