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Last post 3 years ago by delta1. 23 replies replies.
Interesting read on similarities of woke crap and Trump
teedubbya Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I know some will dismiss this offhand. Others won’t get it. But it is an interesting read to consider when forming your own opinion. At least to me. Not flattering to either camp thus everyone will hate it lol. One side must be good and right. The other must be 100% wrong and bad. They can’t both be wrong and bad can they?


Trump and many of his ‘woke’ critics are more alike than they realize
George F. Will
Jan. 15, 2021 at 11:48 a.m. CST

An autopsy of Donald Trump’s presidency can proceed from an early example of his memorable utterances. On his 13th day in office, Feb. 1, 2017, the first day of Black History Month, he said: “Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is getting recognized more and more, I notice.”

His word salad was interesting not because it revealed pristine ignorance concerning the African American leader, who died in 1895. Neither was it notable because of his ignorance about his ignorance. Rather, his statement about Douglass revealed, beyond Trump’s notorious laziness — forethought? preparation? unthinkable — his nonchalance about his ignorance.

This gave him an immunity to embarrassment, an immunity that was the crucial ingredient of his political magnetism for scores of millions of Americans mesmerized by the strange but undeniable charisma of Trump’s serene obliviousness regarding reality. Clad in his armor of insouciant indifference about information, he displayed a jaunty disdain for facts that struck his supporters, not wrongly, as a rare kind of strength. It also made him more akin to many of his cultured despisers than he or they recognize.

He began his political career spouting birtherism and concluded it — he will not be back; like vaudeville, he is yesterday’s entertainment — raving about an election-rigging conspiracy so vast that it involved legions in many states, and so cunning that it left no evidence of itself. As Trump skittered across the surface of public life, many of his critics were too busy savoring their superiority to him to recognize their mental kinship with him. They consciously, and he by cultural osmosis, are participants in the postmodern rejection of reason. He and they are collaborators in the rising rejection of the Enlightenment that produced classical liberalism and this republic.

Postmodernists say, with Nietzsche, that there are no facts, only interpretations — alternative “narratives” about reality. As Andrew Sullivan writes at Substack, to be “woke” is to be awake to this: All claims of disinterestedness, objectivity and universality are bogus. So, reasoning is specious, and attempts at persuasion are pointless. Hence, society is an arena of willfulness where all disagreements are power struggles among identity groups. The concept of the individual disappears as identity becomes fluid, deriving from group membership. Silence is violence; what is spoken is mandatory and must accord with the mentality of the listeners. Welcome to campus.

In a world thus understood, life is a comprehensively zero-sum struggle. Postmodernism rejects, as Adam Garfinkle writes, the Enlightenment belief in a positive-sum social order in which human beings, who are both competitive and cooperative creatures, can prosper without making others poorer. Hence, the Enlightenment belief in, and Trump’s disbelief in, free trade. Postmodernism is the ill-named revival of a premodern mentality: The social order as constant conflict, unleavened by trust and constrained only by the authoritarianism of the dominant group.

In “The Darkening Mind,” written for American Purpose, Garfinkle says that “the farther we look left or right, we see the erosion of the” Enlightenment aspiration of institutionalizing positive-sum relationships. This aspiration, which gives dignity to modern politics, undergirds the case for capitalism — a spontaneous, consensual order of freely cooperating individuals.

In zero-sum thinking, Garfinkle says, “the consent of the governed” is “an empty piety” because legitimacy attaches to whichever group imposes dominance. And as American culture and politics increasingly reveal, “in the zero-sum mentality, no neutral space can exist in what is by definition a totally conflictual environment.”

Postmodernism’s politics is, as Garfinkle says, an agglomeration of reheated Marxism (only conflict is real, and it is ubiquitous) and crypto-theology, including secularized original sin (of the nation: see the New York Times’s 1619 Project) and Christian martyrology recycled in competitive claims of group victimhood. Increasingly, mass-market entertainment features cartoonish characters with teenage vocabularies because, as Garfinkle says, “plots need to be simple”: For minds steeped in zero-sum nonthinking, simple-minded us-vs.-them stories “work better than positive-sum, more nuanced portrayals of human relationships.” And, Garfinkle plausibly argues, “the cacophony of zero-sum shouting between right and left extremes,” amplified by “clickbait-oriented commercial media,” spreads zero-sum thinking nationwide.

As Trump’s four-year snarl ends, recognize that the least intellectual president had a mentality — such is the seepage of intellectual fashions into empty receptacles — akin to that which has closed the academic mind. To people whose social theories and politics are infused with postmodernism, Trump has been like God — not because of his perfect goodness and infinite mercy, but because he is the explanation of everything. Actually, postmodernists are part of the explanation of him.
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,128
Frederick Douglass could have been a starting pitcher if he developed a curve ball to go with his 93 mph fastball.
teedubbya Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That’s Michael Douglas.... or maybe Kirk?

I really liked this piece. It’s how I think but helped me better understand why and how.

That and I’m a geek.
DrafterX Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,547
Pelosi called the 'Code Talkers' 'Code Takers' at a Gold Medal ceremony in DC a few years ago..... Mellow
RayR Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
So, the first thing... is George Will just mad that Trump referred to Frederick Douglass in the present tense?

Second thing, I always thought the least intellectual presidents were Dubbya and that empty suit Obama. Now that Biden is here, he might outdo them all as a empty receptacle.
RayR Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
DrafterX wrote:
Pelosi called the 'Code Talkers' 'Code Takers' at a Gold Medal ceremony in DC a few years ago..... Mellow


Probably brain freeze from too much ice cream. Reptilians are like that.
delta1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
we are mistaken if we all view politics as a zero-sum game...

we can and should demand of our leaders, for the betterment of all, to recognize specific opportunities to marshal win-wins...
fiddler898 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
RayR wrote:
So, the first thing... is George Will just mad that Trump referred to Frederick Douglass in the present tense?

Second thing, I always thought the least intellectual presidents were Dubbya and that empty suit Obama. Now that Biden is here, he might outdo them all as a empty receptacle.


And who is a better arbiter of lesser intellectualism than yourself? The great unwashed salute you!
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Fiddler I hadn’t read that because I don’t know who that is but since you quoted it

It sort of proves the point.

We need to break out of the spell and look as hard at our own side as the other. I’d suggest harder since it is how we identify.

That’s why I don’t understand condoning unbelievable bs from someone you identify with and hold out as a reflection of you. Weird. But there is a sense to it. Understanding that is true might help you break out of a very unproductive individual and sociological pattern.

Folks are willing to look stupid to support stupidity because to not accept it means somehow you are on the other side. And that has been weaponized and manipulated. Now your guy is intentionally doing this to you and you don’t care.
RayR Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
Did I insult one of your heroes too? Which one or is it all of them?
Speyside Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
TW, good read which I agree with. Thank you for sharing it.
tonygraz Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,243
DrafterX wrote:
Pelosi called the 'Code Talkers' 'Code Takers' at a Gold Medal ceremony in DC a few years ago..... Mellow


You're just mad cause she never let you see them.
delta1 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
I remember when George Will was a pillar of conservative thought, considered by some to be the most powerful journalist in America...widely respected by GOP business people and leaders...a solid con...

libs feared and respected him

then the shift to the right and Will, faithful to his principles, stayed in place and looked too moderate...when he didn't support Trump, he was mostly cast aside...he's still a conservative and a libertarian...proving politics has become a culture of personality over principle

funny, but he gets more face time on CNN than on Fox...
RayR Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
George Will may on occasion show some half hearted sympathies for libertarian principles, but that doesn't make him a libertarian. Nope, he's an interesting but confused character who can find himself agreeing with the left, the neocons or conservatives also. .All he does is take on the role of the know-it-all intellectual to justify his shifting positions.
In 2016 he changed his party affiliation from Republican to “unaffiliated” when it became apparent that Trump was the presumptive GOP nominee, and encouraged conservatives to not support Trump even if it led to the election of Hilldog. .
Mr. Jones Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
What a pontificater of hot air and the webStErs diCKtionary.
Mr. Jones Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
I am awake...

Not woke.

They ( the crybaby's that woke people are trying to help )
can get in line ..

Way waaaayyyyyyy behind me...
I am F.I.R.S.T. IN LINE...

My FBI-SSG gangstalking persecution was real, incessant, organized AND DEVIOUS from 2012-2018 with 9+ muderous attempts on my life and $1++million in cash stolen from me by them ....

I ain't complaining about my slave ancestors from 1700 &1800's CENTURIES AGO and why I can't get a college education or a mortgage..

A CONGRESSIONAL hearing into the FBI AND THEIR SSG DIVISION IS SORELY NEEDED...

CHEW ON THAT ... PONTIFICATER GEorgeeeee WILL
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I knew some would t fully read, understand or get what he is saying, and some would focus on him more than the content. That’s just par for the course. But I trust many others reading it gets what he’s saying. It did help me sort or label the thoughts I already had.
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And Jones I do agree with you on his use of words. It’s as if he has to spend time looking fir the most complicated word that means poo lol.
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,289
teedubbya wrote:
I knew some would t fully read, understand or get what he is saying, and some would focus on him more than the content. That’s just par for the course. But I trust many others reading it gets what he’s saying. It did help me sort or label the thoughts I already had.


Par for the course.
rfenst Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,289
teedubbya wrote:
And Jones I do agree with you on his use of words. It’s as if he has to spend time looking fir the most complicated word that means poo lol.

Yes. He speaks and writes in another dimension at times.
rfenst Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,289
Double post.
Speyside Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
That's good. Maybe there he makes sense.
delta1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,782
wellll....he did credit his partner, Garfinkle, for the basis of his article...

wonder if they're gonna break up soon?

they made such good harmony...
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