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Last post 3 years ago by Gene363. 50 replies replies.
Cop Who Shot With a Gun Instead of Her Tazer
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Arrested on a Second Degree Manslaughter charge. Up to 10 years in prison.
Overcharged? Under-charged? Thoughts?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
rfenst wrote:

Overcharged? Under-charged?


Pretty sure that Tasers use disposable Li-Ion packs, so that shouldn't be an issue.

JadeRose Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
Pretty sure that Tasers use disposable Li-Ion packs, so that shouldn't be an issue.




It should still be fine and be ready for the next cop. It's unused.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
JadeRose wrote:
It should still be fine and be ready for the next cop. It's unused.


Good point. Those things are 'spensive.
rfenst Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Cop, police chief resign after death of Black man in Minn.

Associated Press
BROOKLYN CENTER, Minn. — A white police officer who fatally shot a Black man during a traffic stop in a Minneapolis suburb resigned Tuesday, as did the city’s police chief — moves that the mayor said he hoped would help heal the community and lead to reconciliation after two nights of protests and unrest.

The resignations from Officer Kim Potter and police Chief Tim Gannon came two days after the death of 20-year-old Daunte Wright in Brooklyn Center. Potter, a 26-year veteran, had been on administrative leave following Sunday’s shooting, which happened as the Minneapolis area was already on edge over the trial of the first of four police officers in George Floyd’s death.

Brooklyn Center Mayor Mike Elliott said he was “appreciative” that Potter submitted her resignation but that he had not asked for it or accepted it. It was not immediately clear what that would mean.

Gannon has said he believed Potter mistakenly grabbed her gun when she was going for her Taser. She can be heard on her body camera video shouting “Taser! Taser!” However, protesters and Wright’s family members say there’s no excuse for the shooting, and it shows how the justice system is tilted against Blacks, noting Wright was stopped for an expired car registration and ended up dead.

Elliott said he was not sure if Potter resigned because she had heard that she would soon be fired. He said he hoped her resignation would “bring some calm to the community,” but that he would keep working toward “full accountability under the law.”

“We have to make sure that justice is served, justice is done. Daunte Wright deserves that, his family deserves that,” Elliott said.

Activists who attended the news conference called for sweeping changes to the Brooklyn Center Police Department and sharply criticized the acting police chief, Tony Gruenig, for not yet having a plan.

Elliott said there were about 49 police officers in the department, none of whom live in Brooklyn Center, adding “we have very few people of color in our department.”

The suburb north of Minneapolis has seen its demographics shift dramatically in recent years. In 2000, more than 70% of the city was white. Today, a majority of residents are Black, Asian or Latino.

Wright was stopped for having expired license plates. Police then tried to arrest him on an outstanding warrant after failing to appear in court on charges that he fled from officers and possessed a gun without a permit during an encounter with Minneapolis police in June.

In her one-paragraph letter of resignation, Potter said, “I have loved every minute of being a police officer and serving this community to the best of my ability, but I believe it is in the best interest of the community, the department, and my fellow officers if I resign immediately.”

Wright’s father, Aubrey Wright, told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Tuesday that he rejects the explanation that Potter mistook her gun for her Taser.

“A mistake? That doesn’t even sound right. This officer has been on the force for 26 years. I can’t accept that,” he said.
On Monday, hundreds of protesters gathered after a dusk-to-dawn curfew was announced by the governor. When protesters wouldn’t disperse, police began firing gas canisters and flash-bang grenades, chasing some protesters away. Forty people were arrested, Minnesota State Patrol Col. Matt Langer said early Tuesday.
Gene363 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,797
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
Pretty sure that Tasers use disposable Li-Ion packs, so that shouldn't be an issue.



Electrifying response. Applause
Gene363 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,797
Man this sucks.

What if... we replaced pistols and Tazers with a sort of magnum Tazer weapon with two inch long seriously barbed electrodes fired with enough power that they need to be removed by a physician. Also the charge, could be increased to be potentially lethal. This would eliminate the need to chose one or another weapon under stress. Make the lethal potential known to the public as well as demonstrations of the probes on a dead pig.

Krazeehorse Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
That wouldn't deter anyone Gene. The bad guys don't think they're ever going to get caught (again?) or else they would modify their behavior. Since it seems like most urban blacks think they are going to get shot by the police if they are pulled over it would seem reasonable to comply to the nth degree. I'm not defending bad shoots but it seems to me that most if not all bad shoots are avoidable.
ZRX1200 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,580
I found her taser for sale, it’s listed as a French model. Carried once dropped once, selling for defense fund for the right price must carry in the shade.

Overcharged/undercharged?

Robert I really don’t know, but do you think being appropriately charged was a bigger concern than pacifying a mob?

I find it ironic that some hucksters that pretend to be against lynching sure like using the virtual equivalent.
rfenst Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
ZRX1200 wrote:
I found her taser for sale, it’s listed as a French model. Carried once dropped once, selling for defense fund for the right price must carry in the shade.

Overcharged/undercharged?

Robert I really don’t know, but do you think being appropriately charged was a bigger concern than pacifying a mob?

I find it ironic that some hucksters that pretend to be against lynching sure like using the virtual equivalent.

Obviously, the appropriate charges- if any at all- should be the goal.

Hopefully, the mob will be pacified by the swiftness of the charges and her being in jail right now. Wondering what people think...

I am still pondering whether she should have even been charged for manslaughter (as opposed to something lesser).
She did the right thing by resigning before being fired... and that just may have preserved her retirement benefits.
ZRX1200 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,580
Like wrongful death?
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
ZRX1200 wrote:
Like wrongful death?

I don't know yet. I am still pondering...
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,580
I’m with ya, it just “feels” overcharged on initial thought.

Wonder how long it’s going to take for the police union to make a statement.
Speyside Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Robert, the quandary is what was her intent. Based on what we do know I think it was wrongful death. It does appear she thought she was firing a tazer. How could anyone prove otherwise? A life ending mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.
rfenst Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Speyside wrote:
Robert, the quandary is what was her intent. Based on what we do know I think it was wrongful death. It does appear she thought she was firing a tazer. How could anyone prove otherwise? A life ending mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

I do not believe she had a "depraved mind".
Speyside Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I agree.
zitotczito Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
It seems that this is the appropriate charge (not overcharging to satisfy the mob). Intent isn’t a necessary component of second-degree manslaughter in Minnesota. The charge — which carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison — can be applied in circumstances where a person is suspected of causing a death by “culpable negligence” that creates an unreasonable risk and consciously takes chances to cause the death of a person.

Now while this is tragic, why don't people just submit to the arrest without fighting back. Follow the officers orders to the letter and DO NOT resist. If the officer does something wrong you can file a complaint. Most of these arrests resulting in death have involved the person resisting the arrest. Whether the officer is guilty of a crime can be determined in court with all the facts presented.
Dg west deptford Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
C'mon man, she didn't even put covid patients in nursing homes. Oopsie, slipsie I say.
He shouldn'ta ran when he knew he was wanted for armed burglary or somethin? Allegedly
Dg west deptford Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
This cop needs a lesson from the one who shot Ashley Babbitt?

Total secret immunity.
8trackdisco Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,065
Speyside wrote:
Robert, the quandary is what was her intent. Based on what we do know I think it was wrongful death. It does appear she thought she was firing a tazer.


24 years on the force and she doesn’t know the difference between a taser and a gun.

Another painful affirmative action candidate failure for which society pays the price.
Abrignac Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,261
Having annually trained in high stress LEO situations I know tunnel vision is real. The idea with repetitive training is to create muscle memory so one reacts as they have been trained without having to waste time “trying to figure out what to do.”

That said, I can’t ever recall someone deploying their firearm in place of a Taser. My gut reaction to this is to wonder where and how her Taser was attached to her duty belt. It is generally agreed that it be mounted cross draw style on the waist opposite ones’s firearm. That way there is an affirmative action reaching across one’s waist to draw the Taser with their strong hand. I wonder if she had her Taser mounted on the same side as her firearm and simply grabbed the wrong weapon.

Robert, if the scenario is as I described above, what if any law would she seem to have violated?
CelticBomber Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
I read about something similar happening a few years ago. Feels like an over reaction to me but, I wasn't there. Apparently it's happened 13 times since 2001.

https://www.newsweek.com/gun-taser-mix-ups-blamed-these-13-us-police-shootings-since-2001-1583316
izonfire Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
Compliance to the law is only a cultural tendency...
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
Hey, i have a novel concept I'd like to suggest...

Show some fvcking respect to the LEO that's just trying to do their job, nay, perform their voluntarily chosen and sworn duty, to make this a better place . Maybe your dumb ass wont get shot....
tonygraz Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,230
Abrignac wrote:
Having annually trained in high stress LEO situations I know tunnel vision is real. The idea with repetitive training is to create muscle memory so one reacts as they have been trained without having to waste time “trying to figure out what to do.”

That said, I can’t ever recall someone deploying their firearm in place of a Taser. My gut reaction to this is to wonder where and how her Taser was attached to her duty belt. It is generally agreed that it be mounted cross draw style on the waist opposite ones’s firearm. That way there is an affirmative action reaching across one’s waist to draw the Taser with their strong hand. I wonder if she had her Taser mounted on the same side as her firearm and simply grabbed the wrong weapon.

Robert, if the scenario is as I described above, what if any law would she seem to have violated?


If you were the one shot, what law would you say was broken ?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
Hey, i have a novel concept I'd like to suggest...

Show some fvcking respect to the LEO that's just trying to do their job, nay, perform their voluntarily chosen and sworn duty, to make this a better place . Maybe your dumb ass wont get shot....



And just like that Common Sense prevailed.
izonfire Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
Hey, i have a novel concept I'd like to suggest...

Show some fvcking respect to the LEO that's just trying to do their job, nay, perform their voluntarily chosen and sworn duty, to make this a better place . Maybe your dumb ass wont get shot....

That's racist...
BuckyB93 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,163
#DefundGerbil
BuckyB93 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,163
Twenty NINE!
izonfire Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,644
CelticBomber wrote:
I read about something similar happening a few years ago. Feels like an over reaction to me but, I wasn't there. Apparently it's happened 13 times since 2001.

https://www.newsweek.com/gun-taser-mix-ups-blamed-these-13-us-police-shootings-since-2001-1583316

Based on the outcome, I'm guessing you were...
rfenst Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Abrignac wrote:
Robert, if the scenario is as I described above, what if any law would she seem to have violated?

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609
I have not read it yet, but definitely will later today
delta1 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,776
so, lemme get this straight...

support the cops, no matter how badly they f*** up, especially if they f*** up on some peeps you don't like...


unless you or peeps you like are storming the US Capitol...then it's OK to beat the c*** outta the cops...
HockeyDad Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
delta1 wrote:
so, lemme get this straight...

support the cops, no matter how badly they f*** up, especially if they f*** up on some peeps you don't like...


unless you or peeps you like are storming the US Capitol...then it's OK to beat the c*** outta the cops...


No. Defund the police. Cops are bad.
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,535
I don't think she should get paid for that day... Mellow
rfenst Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
2020 Minnesota Statutes

609.20 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.

Whoever does any of the following is guilty of manslaughter in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 15 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $30,000, or both:

(1) intentionally causes the death of another person in the heat of passion provoked by such words or acts of another as would provoke a person of ordinary self-control under like circumstances, provided that the crying of a child does not constitute provocation;

(2) violates section 609.224 and causes the death of another or causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor offense with such force and violence that death of or great bodily harm to any person was reasonably foreseeable, and murder in the first or second degree was not committed thereby;

(3) intentionally causes the death of another person because the actor is coerced by threats made by someone other than the actor's coconspirator and which cause the actor reasonably to believe that the act performed by the actor is the only means of preventing imminent death to the actor or another;

(4) proximately causes the death of another, without intent to cause death by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule III, IV, or V; or

(5) causes the death of another in committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.377 (malicious punishment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

As used in this section, a "person of ordinary self-control" does not include a person under the influence of intoxicants or a controlled substance.

History: 1963 c 753 art 1 s 609.20; 1981 c 227 s 12; 1984 c 628 art 3 s 3; 1986 c 444; 1987 c 176 s 2; 1988 c 604 s 1; 1995 c 244 s 13; 1996 c 408 art 3 s 13

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.

History: 1963 c 753 art 1 s 609.205; 1984 c 628 art 3 s 11; 1985 c 294 s 6; 1986 c 444; 1989 c 290 art 6 s 5; 1995 c 244 s 14




My call is that she was charged properly.
tonygraz Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,230
There are good cops and bad cops, most of them are good or at least OK, but the bad ones really should be weeded out to stop the insanity. I've run into both kinds. Most of the bad ones were when I was young and more recently they seem to be mostly good, but where I live there's not much police activity.
Mr. Jones Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,410
That beotch copper is T.O.A.S.T....

And another DUECE family sees $$$ millions of dollars in lawsuits against a municipality...
Not so sure that this mishap is gonna bring "George Floyd's"
Dollar amounts...so many millions that went from siblings to 2nd and 3rd cousins...trickle down DUECE economics at it's finest...
Stogie1020 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,307
izonfire wrote:
That's racist...


Dammit, you beat me to it.
CelticBomber Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
DrafterX wrote:
I don't think she should get paid for that day... Mellow



Bullets aren't free buddy.
rfenst Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Mr. Jones wrote:
That beotch copper is T.O.A.S.T....

And another DUECE family sees $$$ millions of dollars in lawsuits against a municipality...
Not so sure that this mishap is gonna bring "George Floyd's"
Dollar amounts...so many millions that went from siblings to 2nd and 3rd cousins...trickle down DUECE economics at it's finest...

City might have gotten out of litigation for what they considered a legally fair cost or they didn't want to take a risk with everything in Chauvin's employment records and potential punitive damages. Who knows? But, hey, $27M sure is a lot of money. They must have had a real good lawyer.
HockeyDad Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,119
Prolly Morgan & Morgan.
Speyside Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Robert, how is it determinable that she consiously took a chance? This is not a debate question, it is an I lack knowledge question.
rfenst Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
HockeyDad wrote:
Prolly Morgan & Morgan.

Not in Cali yet, right?
rfenst Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
Speyside wrote:
Robert, how is it determinable that she consiously took a chance? This is not a debate question, it is an I lack knowledge question.


I looked for about 30 minutes and came up with the following from some cases and some actual jury instructions:



"Defendant contends that in order to prove her guilty of second-degree manslaughter the state had to establish that she was actually aware at the time of the incident that her conduct created an unreasonable risk of death or great bodily harm and that nonetheless she took that risk. Defendant contends that the state did not prove that but only proved that she was negligent. The state argues that it was not required to establish that she was aware that the conduct created an unreasonable risk. The state also argues that she understood the risk she was taking and recklessly pursued it anyway."

"It is intentional conduct which the actor may not intend to be harmful but which an ordinary and reasonably prudent man would recognize as involving a strong probability of injury to others."



I don't know anything else right now, but will try to look further in to it over the weekend...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
rfenst wrote:
City might have gotten out of litigation for what they considered a legally fair cost or they didn't want to take a risk with everything in Chauvin's employment records and potential punitive damages. Who knows? But, hey, $27M sure is a lot of money. They must have had a real good lawyer.



Prolly 31% if not more than the total won.

Plus fees...paperclips...copies...process serving...Right Robert? LOLOLOL...can't wait till the next time we meet up. I mean he did go to trial.
ZRX1200 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,580
Right or wrong the charges were entirely too early.

DrMaddVibe Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,389
Welll...she said "TAZER TAZER TAZER" but brought a gun to a tazer party.


OOOOF.

My take is she made a serious error in judgement that was predicated on moves made by someone else and muscle memory kicked in a tad before the brain did. Sad. 26 year career and she will be judged...really will be...for the rest of her life. A mistake she cannot take back.
rfenst Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,251
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Welll...she said "TAZER TAZER TAZER" but brought a gun to a tazer party.


OOOOF.

My take is she made a serious error in judgement that was predicated on moves made by someone else and muscle memory kicked in a tad before the brain did. Sad. 26 year career and she will be judged...really will be...for the rest of her life. A mistake she cannot take back.

So true.
Speyside Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I feel so bad for her.
Gene363 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,797
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Welll...she said "TAZER TAZER TAZER" but brought a gun to a tazer party.


OOOOF.

My take is she made a serious error in judgement that was predicated on moves made by someone else and muscle memory kicked in a tad before the brain did. Sad. 26 year career and she will be judged...really will be...for the rest of her life. A mistake she cannot take back.


Yup, it was a serious mistake and it's shame it happened.
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