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Last post 3 years ago by rfenst. 24 replies replies.
Leaving Afghanistan, at Last, Probably
Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,810
Good news: Hat's off to Biden for finally announcing we are leaving Afghanistan.

Bad News: on 9/11??? SMDH WTF is he thinking!!!
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
Biden sucks.. Mellow
Speyside Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
It's time.
CelticBomber Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
When we move out of Afghanistan what do you think our chances are of getting our security deposit back?

We say we're leaving on 9/11 but, I'm betting we skip out on our last two months rent.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,412
Remember when Trump suggested that and the media lost their $hit?

Whatever.


President Slingblade is going to fire up a war somewhere so this really won't matter.
tonygraz Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,243
Perhaps a volunteer brigade should be formed to stay in Afghanistan forever. Then all the objectors to us leaving could find peace and harmony in their new new Afghan home.
izonfire Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
We can't leave.
We'll lose our control of the heroin production...
RayR Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,884
It won't happen, it's the perfect place for Biden to launch his war with Russia.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,412
izonfire wrote:
We can't leave.
We'll lose our control of the heroin production...



That is the monkey on our back isn't it?
BuckyB93 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,184
Don't worry, we have government sponsored methadone clinics now to keep the addictions going. Herion just eats into the the profit margins of big pharms.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,412
RayR wrote:
It won't happen, it's the perfect place for Biden to launch his war with Russia.



President Slingblade has already been publicly undressed by the XI and Putin regimes. They NEVER respected him and now they don't respect our nation. Way to go all you Biden supporters for electing this stumbling liar into the White House because you were butthurt an Alpha male with a social media account hurt your feewings.
CelticBomber Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
DrMaddVibe wrote:
President Slingblade has already been publicly undressed by the XI and Putin regimes. They NEVER respected him and now they don't respect our nation. Way to go all you Biden supporters for electing this stumbling liar into the White House because you were butthurt an Alpha male with a social media account hurt your feewings.



What are you cutting your heroin with? Trump was in office and the only thing we ever heard was what album you were listening to. Now, the rage coming out of your posts is palpable. I keep checking my screen and keyboard for spittle because I can feel you frothing at the mouth just by reading what you write. Relax dude, President Harris will take care of you.
ZRX1200 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,589
So he’s actually announced leaving.....4 months LATER than agreed so I don’t get the whole “good for Biden” as they were told they’d be no protections for US soldiers after the agreed upon date. So this is a bit of a provocation on Sleepy’s part and looks like the Neo-con type hope for aggressions so we can start filling MIC coffers at a high rate of speed again.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,412
CelticBomber wrote:
What are you cutting your heroin with? Trump was in office and the only thing we ever heard was what album you were listening to. Now, the rage coming out of your posts is palpable. I keep checking my screen and keyboard for spittle because I can feel you frothing at the mouth just by reading what you write. Relax dude, President Harris will take care of you.


Perhaps it had a lot to do with you screaming RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA every five minutes...but if you look the posts were there. Maybe it was the STORMY STORMY STORMY...Remember when you all got whipped up into a frenzy by Ratchet Maddcow because you all were going to impeach and remove Trump...good times. I laughed and laughed. There were posts.


You've got to be hiding under a rock to not know this...

Putin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, said that the White House’s invitation to meet “in a third country in the coming months” would not be possible to organize, at least in the short term.

Or

https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/2100211/xi-to-join-european-climate-summit-as-kerry-in-china-for-talks


China and Russia. Thanks for putting them together against America President Slingblade! They don't respect our President and now it's seeping onto us. All Biden can do is talk about what? The thing we're supposed to know he's mumbling about? The leg hairs of his that flow in the water? The roaches he knows something about? You voted for this and wanted it...is this what you expected? It's exactly what you were told America would get. Talk about getting punk'd!

As far as the rage bit...whoa, aren't you the lil' drama queen. Maybe switch to decaf if you really believe all that. President Harris can't even go to the border yet she's going to take care of me? I don't need my d!ck sucked by her. Thanks for the offer but you can keep it. High mileage on her, know what I mean?
Mr. Jones Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
Once we (the US MILITARY) TOTALLY leaves Afghanistan...
The TALIBAN, AL QUEDA AND ISSIS SILL REBOOT AND START ALL OVER AGAIN...

WITHIN THREE YEARS...IT WILL BE A RADICAL MUSLIM TERORIST
STATE BIG-TIME...
PSACEFUL Muslims stand zero chance against ARMED TO THE TEETH RADICAL MUSLIMS...THEY WILL KILL, MURDER AND MAIM ANYONE WHO STANDS IN THEIR WAY...
And the same to anyone else just got fun and to send a message...like ****** Vitale..
we're baaaaccckkk baaayyybbeeeeee!!!
Burner02 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
‘Failure’ vs. ‘Historic’: Here’s How The Media Described Trump And Biden Making The Same Decision On Afghanistan

Earlier this week, President Joe Biden announced that he was planning to pull all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan by September 11, 2021 — the twentieth anniversary of the deadliest terror attack in American history — extending the May 1 deadline set by former President Donald Trump.

Biden stated that the troops stationed in Afghanistan — approximately 2,500 in total — would be withdrawn starting on May 1, with the process to be completed by September 11.

“It is time to end America’s longest war.” Biden said.

“We cannot continue the cycle of extending or expanding our military presence in Afghanistan hoping to create the ideal conditions for our withdrawal, expecting a different result,” continued Biden. “I am now the fourth United States president to preside over an American troop presence in Afghanistan. Two Republicans. Two Democrats. I will not pass this responsibility to a fifth.”

“War in Afghanistan was never meant to be a multigenerational undertaking,” Biden said. “We went to war with clear goals. We achieved those objectives,” he added.

In reality, Biden’s announcement did not occur in a vacuum, and was simply an extension of the May 1 deadline for withdrawal set by President Donald Trump.

Despite the fact that Biden’s proclamation was little more than a typical repackaging of existing policy, the media reaction was broadly one of adulation and support. However, the response to Trump’s original announcement was quite different.

Bloomberg

Trump — “Trump’s Afghan Troop Withdrawal Is a Gift to the Taliban”

Biden — “Biden’s Afghanistan Withdrawal Is a Blow for China”

CNN

Trump — “Diplomats worry Trump’s desire to withdraw US troops risks success of Afghan-Taliban talks”

Trump — “America can’t stay in Afghanistan forever, but it matters how we leave”

Biden — “Biden starts to execute on policies Trump abandoned by crossing off another campaign promise”

Biden — “See Biden make historic announcement on US troops in Afghanistan”

Biden — “Joe Biden is taking a calculated risk in Afghanistan”

The New York Times

Trump — “An Afghan Bargain Likely To Fail”

Biden — “As Biden Pulls Out of Afghanistan, How Much Do Americans Care?”

The Hill

Trump — “America’s botched exit from Afghanistan”

Biden — “Biden lays out plan for Afghanistan withdrawal”

The Washington Post

Trump — “After Trump promises a swift troop exit from Afghanistan, confusion grows about U.S. stance”

Trump — “Afghans stunned, worried by Trump tweet to bring home U.S. troops early”

Trump — “Trump’s military cuts in Afghanistan highlight an array of divisions in a 19-year-old conflict”

Biden — “Afghanistan requires more humility – from everyone”

Biden — “Biden’s Afghanistan withdrawal is a moment of truth — and a potentially humbling one — for GOP hawks”

The Guardian

Trump — “Trump’s Afghanistan withdrawal announcement takes US officials by surprise”

Biden — “Biden announces all US and Nato troops to leave Afghanistan by September 11”

The Independent


Trump — “Donald Trump’s withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan is an unavoidable recognition of failure”

Biden — “Analysis: Biden takes a risk pulling troops from Afghanistan”

Los Angeles Times

Trump — “Trump gambles on plan to bring home some U.S. troops from Afghanistan before election”

Biden — “‘Time to end the forever war.’ Biden says troops to leave Afghanistan by Sept. 11”
danmdevries Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,359
Think the war on drugs has gone on longer. And look how that's going.
DrafterX Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,548
I could sure use some drugs about now... Mellow
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
DrafterX wrote:
I could sure use some drugs about now... Mellow

Well, come on over!
Speyside Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Trump was right to try to get us out, so is Biden. Did you really expect anything else from the media?
izonfire Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
Yeah, some drugs right now would really hit the spot... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,412
The US soldiers might be leaving but Biden is privatizing this war. We're there only to control the heroin trade.

PS...nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. Not Alexander the Great, not the former USSR and not America.

PSS...Great post Burner. Shows the total hypocrisy inherent in the media today.
Mr. Jones Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
You are correct about "privatizing" the war....

Govt subcontractors will still hand out pallets of cash to heroin warlords and call in the sightings and the coordinates of their enemies to the U.S. command @CREECH AIRFORCE BASE IN NEVADA AND TO THE C.I.A. DRONE COMMAND CENTER @
Langley, V.A....

Hence, enemies of the Afghani warlords will blowup reeeaaalllll good!

And..
uncle JOE stranosa will keep those massive heroin dollars rolling into the U.S. BLACK BUDGET PIPELINE... UNCOUNTED IN THE G.N.P. BUT FUNDING EVERYTHING THAT THE U.S. DOES ILLEGALLY IN THE U.S AND ABROAD
( like felony GANGSTALKING innocent targeted individuals like me. Jones to the tune of over ++++$42 million...)

P.S.
Why does anyone think OBAMA LIVES IN WASHINGTON D.C.? AND NOT HIS OLD H.U.T. IN CHICAGO?

CAN YOU SAY ....
SHADOW "GREENLIGHTING" PRESIDENT BY IPSO FACTO?
rfenst Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,291
Opinion: What Joe Biden and I Saw After the U.S. Invaded Afghanistan
Back when we visited in 2002, there was hope that America could help make the country better.

By Thomas L. Friedman
Opinion Columnist

I was not surprised that Joe Biden decided to finally pull the plug on the U.S. presence in Afghanistan. Back in 2002 it was reasonable to hope that our invasion there to topple Osama bin Laden and his Taliban allies could be extended to help make that country a more stable, tolerant and decent place for its citizens — and less likely to host jihadist groups. But it was also reasonable to fear from the start that trying to graft a Western political culture onto such a deeply tribalized, male-dominated and Islamic fundamentalist culture like Afghanistan’s was a fool’s errand, especially when you factored in how much neighboring Pakistan never wanted us to succeed because it could wrench Afghanistan from Pakistan’s cultural and geopolitical orbit.

Biden was torn between those hopes and fears from the very start. I know because I was with him on his first visit in early January 2002 to postwar Afghanistan. It was just weeks after the major fighting had subsided and the Taliban were evicted from Kabul.

Biden, at the time the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, had invited me to come along with him. I kept a diary in the months after 9/11, including of that trip, and published it in 2002, with a collection of columns from that time, in my book “Longitudes & Attitudes: Exploring the World After September 11.”

They were my thoughts, not Biden’s, but we were seeing the same things and sharing many of the same first impressions, which, in many ways persist today.

The diary entry began:

“We flew to Islamabad and then grabbed a U.N. relief flight into Bagram Air Base, 50 miles from Kabul. Joe stayed at the newly reopened U.S. embassy, with no flush toilets or running water, and I stayed at the house being rented by The New York Times, which had only slightly better plumbing but a friendly group of Afghan drivers and cooks who kept the fireplace roaring and the raisin pilaf and warm Afghan bread on the table. My first impression of Kabul? It was Ground Zero East.”

“We might as well be doing nation-building on the moon,” I wrote in the column I published that week. “You see sad and bizarre scenes here: a white donkey galloping down the main street right behind our car; a man with one leg peddling a bicycle; people washing a car with water from a port-a-potty. … The central government is so broke it has less money than most American network crews here, so the government can’t even pay salaries.”

Back to the diary:

“One morning Biden and I went over to the old Soviet Embassy, where thousands of refugees were packed into a beehive of makeshift one-room apartments, heated only by wood stoves and sheltered from the wet cold by plastic sheets. Everyone seemed to be shuffling around in sandals, with blankets for overcoats. Open sewers and mud were their front yards; hollow cheeks and wide eyes marked their faces. … My heart told me to write that America must remain here, for however long it takes, with however many troops it takes, to repair this country, and provide a minimum level of security so it can get on its feet again. It was the least we owed the place, having already abandoned it once after the Soviet withdrawal. We didn’t have to make it Switzerland, just a little better, a little freer, and a little more stable than it was under the Taliban.

“But while my heart kept pulling me in one direction, my head, and my eyes, kept encountering things that were deeply troubling. It started when I went along with Biden to meet the Minister of the Interior for the Interim Government, Yunus Qanooni, who is a Tajik. Behind his desk, where a minister should be hanging the picture of his president (Hamid Karzai, an ethnic Pashtun), he had a picture of Ahmed Shah Massoud (an ethnic Tajik), the leader of the Northern Alliance who was assassinated just before September 11.

“Tom Friedman’s first rule of politics: Never trust a country where a new minister has the picture of his favorite dead militia leader, not the country’s (interim) president, over his desk. It seemed to me that the tribal warrior culture ran so deep in this place, it would be hard for any neutral central government to sink real roots. As I contemplated that militia leader’s picture, I wondered to myself: ‘When were the good old days for government in Afghanistan? Before Genghis Khan? Before gunpowder?’”

Indeed, I wrote in my column that week that I lingered one evening in the famous bookstore of the Intercontinental Hotel, which had an amazing collection of books on Afghan history. As I perused the shelves, I wrote, “I was struck by how many books had ‘Afghan wars’ in the title. I picked up one called ‘A History of the War in Afghanistan’ and discovered it was part of a thick two-volume set that covered only the years 1800 to 1842.” I was also struck by the collection of postcards offered in that bookstore — one in particular. It was a two-part picture; one part was of a shell-ravaged building, and the other part of a damaged hallway, with the roof collapsed and rubble strewn all over the floor. The caption read: “Afghanistan, the looted and destroyed Kabul Museum.”

That is the sign of a country too long at war — when it is producing postcards of the rubble. And that was the question that Biden and I wrestled with throughout that trip: What were the foundations — physical, cultural, political, economic, religious and social — from which Afghans, with American and NATO help, might build a more decent, less corrupt, modern political system? Could the future bury the past there or would the past always bury the future? There were women and students and new, post-Taliban leaders we met with who insisted that the country could overcome its past; the bookstore library cautioned otherwise. Needless to say, we didn’t resolve that question on that trip. I am not sure we have still.

The diary: “The day Biden and his staff were supposed to fly out, with me tagging along, bad weather descended on Bagram Air Base, and the U.N. canceled its flight. This was a problem. The Delta Shuttle doesn’t serve Kabul. No U.N. flight, no exit. One of Biden’s security detail managed to get him and the rest of us seats on a U.S. military transport that was supposed to come in late that evening and fly right out, first to Pakistan and then to Bahrain. As a result, we had to sit around Bagram all day with the U.S. Special Forces, who were headquartered there. …

“I looked around the room at the Special Forces A-teams that were there and could see America’s strength hiding in plain sight. It wasn’t smart missiles or night-fighting equipment. It was the fact that these Special Forces teams each seemed to be made up of a collection of Black, Asian, Hispanic, and white Americans. It is our ability to blend those many into one hard fist that is the real source of our power. This is precisely what Afghans have not been able to do in recent decades, and it has left them weak, divided, and prey to outsiders.”

(Reading that particular passage 20 years later I confess that I wonder if we have become more like the Afghans and not the Afghans more like us. Our diversity is only our strength as long as we can forge “out of many — one.” But lately, our parties and politics have become so tribalized it is not clear anymore that we can do that.)

The diary: “Getting out of Afghanistan turned out to be harder than getting in (which I hope will not be a metaphor for U.S. operations there generally). When the U.S. military transport that Joe Biden and friends were supposed to fly out on arrived at Bagram, the U.S. Army captain running the control tower informed the senator that orders had come down from the Pentagon that no civilians were to be allowed on military aircraft. Throughout Biden’s trip, the Pentagon, presumably under orders from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, had denied Biden any help, even though he chaired the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. No planes, no military tours, no nothing. This seemed to be the last straw. Biden was very cool, didn’t throw a tantrum, but was quietly pissed.”

I ended up lending Biden my satellite phone to call Secretary of State Colin Powell, via the State Department operations center, to see if he could help.

“‘This is Joe Biden, could you connect me with Colin Powell?’ Biden asked the State Department operator. A few minutes passed. ‘Colin? Hey, it’s Joe Biden. … Yeah, I’m standing here on the runway at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan, trying to get out on a military transport, and they’re telling me that the Pentagon has ordered that no civilians be let on the plane. I’m sorry to trouble you, Colin, but could you give us a hand here?’

“Powell told Biden to hold on for a minute while he tried to get Rumsfeld. Rumsfeld was in church, so Powell tracked down his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz. There were a few more minutes of phone calls to Centcom headquarters in Florida before Powell came back on the phone with Biden.

“‘Joe,’ said the Secretary of State, ‘let me talk to the air traffic controller there.’

“Biden then handed the satellite phone to the air traffic controller with the following words: ‘Captain, the Secretary of State would like to talk to you.’

“It was pitch-dark, but I was sure I saw that captain’s face turn completely white with shock that he was talking to the Secretary of State, a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, no less. All I heard him saying to Powell was, ‘Yessir, yessir, yessir.’ When he was done, he handed back the phone and told Biden, ‘You’re welcome to board, sir.’

“As we strapped into the back of the C-130, the crew shouted that someone was firing tracer bullets at the other end of the runway. … With this big cargo plane empty except for us, it felt like we took off straight up, like a rocket, which was fine with me, since Bagram is almost surrounded by tall mountains that had already claimed two U.S. transports. Three hours later, we landed in Jacobabad, Pakistan, somewhere in the middle of the country, at a Pakistani base being used by the U.S. Air Force. We had a few hours to kill before we hopped a C-17 to Bahrain.

“Talking to the U.S. airmen at Jacobabad was an eye-opener. One of them told us, ‘We don’t have a flight to Afghanistan that doesn’t get shot at by small-arms fire from inside Pakistan somewhere near the border.’

“But Pakistan is our ally in this war, we said. Tell that to the Pakistanis who live along the Afghan border, he shrugged. It was one of those moments when you realize as a journalist that there are a million stories going on in and around this larger war story that you have no clue about.

“It was one of those moments when you get an inkling that you are standing on a story with a false bottom. But when Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl tragically got his throat slit a few weeks later by anti-American Pakistani terrorists, I remembered that conversation at Jacobabad, and suddenly the senseless murder of an American in Pakistan didn’t seem so out of context anymore.”

So that was Joe Biden’s and my introduction to Afghanistan. When I interviewed him last December, a month after his election as president, we got talking informally about the Middle East and he asked if I remembered our trip to Afghanistan and all the craziness at the end.

I never forgot it, I told him. Clearly, neither had he.

Our nation’s effort there was worth a try; our soldiers and diplomats were trying to make it better, but it was never clear that they knew how or had enough Afghan partners. Yes, maybe leaving will make it worse, but our staying wasn’t really helping.

Our leaving may be a short-term disaster, and in the longer run, who knows, maybe Afghanistan will find balance on its own, like Vietnam. Or not. I don’t know. I am as humbled and ambivalent about it today as I was 20 years ago, and I am sure that Biden is too.

All I know for sure are: 1) We need to offer asylum to every Afghan who worked closely with us and may now be in danger. 2) Afghans are going to author their own future. 3) It is American democracy that is being eroded today by our own divisiveness, by our own hands, and unless we get that fixed we can’t help anyone — including ourselves.



Thomas L. Friedman is the foreign affairs Op-Ed columnist. He joined the paper in 1981, and has won three Pulitzer Prizes. He is the author of seven books, including “From Beirut to Jerusalem,” which won the National Book Award.
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