America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 2 years ago by Thunder.Gerbil. 31 replies replies.
Vegan and Organic
Stogie1020 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
I am not part of the kale and tofu crowd by any means, but I am wondering if any of you knowledgeable cigar lovers have any insight into the commercial use of pesticides in the tasty tobbaco we all smoke?

Do the crops typically get sprayed in the field or treated with chemicals after harvesting? If so, is anyone concerned about that getting into us when we smoke? I know cigarette tobacco is treated with tons of chemicals after it's harvested, but I have no idea about cigar tobacco.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 3,942
I’d bet lots of money it’s sprayed in the field.


So is every vegetable you eat. Unless it’s organic. I use those pesticides. Most people think I’m trying to kill them.

The rate the stuff is used is so low it typically scares the insects away. It will kill them but they often leave the fields first.

Not sure if they need to treat the tobacco after harvest Likely the bugs would want to feed on the live plants.

I think science has gotten to a point we can now use pesticides at such a rate it is not going to hurt anyone.

Billions of dollars are spent in testing on these insecticides
I personally don’t buy organic foods. I trust the stuff. I use it.
I’ll have to check some of my labels at work. I’ll see if tobacco is listed.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 3,942
Warrior is an insecticide that is labeled for use on tobacco. Asana is not labeled for tobacco. I’m surprised by this.


I use both of these. Wouldn’t have a problem smoking tobacco sprayed with warrior.

If it’s labeled for use in tobacco fields. They use it. As far as what’s being used in other countries. I don’t have the research to know any brand names to google on the fly. I’m sure they use something. I’d imagine some selective herbicides would also be used.

I did watch a documentary on a farm in Nicaragua. They hand hoed those plants. In my opinion it’s likely no herbicides were used. I could ask a few questions and likely know everything necessary to grow tobacco I don’t have a market for it where I live.

I’m a farmer so I get chemical salesman around and plenty of agronomist.

Most people are terrified of chemicals. They are so much more gentle than they were 15 years ago. Considering I know a lot about what is used. I feel very confident buying the regular stuff on the shelf vs the organic

Also. I realize this response is getting pretty long winded.

I used to grow chickens. 80000 at a time. The regular chicken is a healthier bird than the organic ones. As a rule.

I wouldn’t worry much about the topic. I tried to answer this to the best of my ability.
deadeyedick Online
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,957
What we know:

Smoking tobacco is not good for you.

What we don't know:

Smoking tobacco treated with herbicide is any worse.
Stogie1020 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Jake,

Thanks, I appreciate the inside info. I came to CBid via a lawn care forum, so herbicides and insecticides are not an unfamiliar topic for me. Plus my pop is a plant pathology professor. I am pretty sure he still has some DDT laying about somewhere in his garage...

I think you hit on an underlying issue I wasn't even thinking about, which is that while the FDA and Dept. of Agriculture have standards for the US, who knows what is going on in Central America in terms of crop management. I would hope the better farms are sticking to label rates for application, but lesser farms may be "winging it" to increase crop yield.
Stogie1020 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
deadeyedick wrote:
What we know:

Smoking tobacco is not good for you.

What we don't know:

Smoking tobacco treated with herbicide is any worse.


100% agree, but for some reason I had this notion that, unlike cigarette tobacco, cigars were a "cleaner product" and were just natural tobacco leaves rolled up, lit on fire and shoved in my pie hole. I think overall they are a more "natural" product, but I need to stop thinking they are some organic, farm to table smoking product.

Speyside Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
They are cleaner but pesticides are used often the pesticides are natural meaning they are plant based. Stogie, I don't think the information is available, but 1/2 life is important.
Stogie1020 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
You raise a good point Spey. Most of this tobacco is aged for a while before it ever gets to the rollers, and then it sits for a while before being shipped to consumers.

Maybe this is the justification I need to ONLY smoke Padron 1926's...
Sunoverbeach Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,586
Pesticides is how they get that pepper blast in there
LeeBot Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2020
Posts: 1,919
I read an article one time that Asylum practices sustainable agriculture, has little (they say "no") impact on the environment, meaning they use "non toxic" pesticides.

I'm not a chemophobe, at all, but I would push back on the idea that the pesticides are anything less than profitable poison. (and I'm actually a fan of DDT. It's not some monster chemical it's made out to be). Almost all of the Federal government's research is actually self-serving, industry-backed research. No body really knows what most of this stuff really does.

Maybe the doses are too low to matter, half-life, yada yada yada, but I'm sure almost everyone drenches their stuff in whatever it takes to keep the bugs away. We smoke it. It can't be good for you.

Interesting to look at agriculture in the corn belt. 90% of the state of Idaho is covered in feed corn and soy beans. They drench their crops in massive amounts of chemicals, and along with the rest of the corn belt, it washes into the Mississippi, goes into the gulf of Mexico and creates enormous dead zones.



deadeyedick Online
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 16,957
As an aside, Alejandro Robaina, the grandfather of Cuban tobacco, claimed to smoke about 5 cigars a day starting at the age of 10 until he died at 91.
He died of cancer.
Speyside Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
My understanding is that all cc's and most nc's use natural pesticides.
Stogie1020 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Speyside wrote:
My understanding is that all cc's and most nc's use natural pesticides.

Ricin and bubonic plague are "natural." Doesn't mean I really want to go licking it off a table.

Now, if you tell me they are using Neem oil or other benign stuff, that's a different story.

Don't get me wrong, I am not slowing down my consumption, just thinking out loud about what I am smoking.
Speyside Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Just passing on info. Cyanide is natural. It technically could even be organtic.
Stogie1020 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Agreed. I think they sell it in the bulk section at Whole Foods.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 3,942
Sorghum and Sudan grass will both produce cyanide. True stuff. So sure you could organically grow your own cyanide
Stogie1020 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
My wife just started "gardening". Now I am worried.
tonygraz Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
I saw a sign the other day in Downeast Maine - "Naturally grown, local organic firewood".
Stogie1020 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
probably cost 2x times the non-organic stuff, right?
Speyside Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es500434p#

Somewhat technical none the less a good article on half life of pesticides.
rfenst Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
Tobacco, in and of itself is a contact pesticide, I have used it on the shrubs and garden.
Speyside Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Stogie, I think we'll aged in your humidor is the best bet. Still, what do the new chemicals do?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
It's been almost a decade now, but field pesticides were not mentioned when I was in Nicaragua and visited a few cigar factories and both Pepin and Padron's fields. They did talk about a fumigation on the finished bales to control beetles, the chemical had a very short half-life. No one seemed to like the stuff though. Blast freezing was a much preferred method.

Cuba can't afford pesticides. Habanos freezes before shipment. Sometimes their freezer even works.
Stogie1020 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Speyside wrote:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/es500434p#

Somewhat technical none the less a good article on half life of pesticides.


Interesting, thanks for posting it. Looks like the majority have half lives less than 20 days and only a few exceed several months. I am guessing that by the time the leaves are harvested, stored, fermented, rolled, stored, shipped and then eventually get to me, I am pretty safe. Maybe except those CI fresh rolled wheels.
Stogie1020 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
It's been almost a decade now, but field pesticides were not mentioned when I was in Nicaragua and visited a few cigar factories and both Pepin and Padron's fields. They did talk about a fumigation on the finished bales to control beetles, the chemical had a very short half-life. No one seemed to like the stuff though. Blast freezing was a much preferred method.

Cuba can't afford pesticides. Habanos freezes before shipment. Sometimes their freezer even works.


I am starting to wonder of rfenst is on to something, with tobacco being a natural deterrent to insects (while the plant is alive). It must have been super cool to see those farms in operation.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
Robert is right about nicotine being a natural insecticide. Aside from the tobacco beetle almost no insect will touch a tobacco plant.

I think by and large, any pesticides used on tobacco plants would not be on the premium cigar or pipe tobacco plants.

Farms are neat, but kind of "seen one, seen em all". The NC factories are super interesting though. Every place does things differently. Sometimes radically differently.
Stogie1020 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Yeah, I guess the growing is basically all the same, but the handling, storing, rolling and production end of things would be really cool to see. Are you in the industry or was it a personal trip when you went?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
It was the Drew Estates Cigar Safari trip. I'm just a civilian,
delta1 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
this is good to know...we humans are not even close to insects, as we are drawn to tobacco and not repelled...


one difference between cigarettes and cigars: I don't know many people who inhale cigar smoke...but many do inhale secondary cigar smoke...
tonygraz Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
I believe that tobacco has problems with mold in the growing process. I have no idea what they do to control it.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
Yeah, the mold. Nasty blight attacks all the old classic varietals. You mention that around any tobacco grower or cigar maker and they shudder.

It can wipe out hundreds of hectares of crops in 24-48 hours.

Jose Pepin Sr was telling us about that with Pete Johnson translating back when I went to Pepin's farms. He (Pepin) was on the verge of tears remembering and telling the stories of what he saw in Cuba when the mold hit. Entire year crop for the country wiped out in mere days.

What Pete / Pepin were saying was that when it hits an older variety of tobacco is that you can't stop it. You can't even slow it down. It gets on your plants you cut them down, burn them, torch the field, burn your clothes and your boots so you don't track to another field and pay a plane to dump chemicals everywhere on the smoldering remains and the dirt and hope you killed it. It is why some of the old corojo strains from the 50's are now extinct.

Most modern cigar tobacco has been selectively generically bred to be resistant. Those stand a chance against it, but there is still often a lot of fire involved. You won't loose everything, but you might lose a field. Some blenders don't like the taste of the resistant tobacco, to them it lacks the nuance or punch that they are after. Kind of like a supermarket tomato is how Pete explained it.
Users browsing this topic
Guest