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Elon Musk Responds To Joy Reid’s Attack On Him
bgz Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Think about this, at what point do they do the unrealized gains? at 23:59:59 on Dec 31?

What happens if it all sh*ts on Jan 2nd?

How do you ethically reconcile that? Everyone that will get murdered by that will be the little guy... guess who will cause it?

The big guys dumping sh*t to pay taxes on their unrealized gains.

Then all the little guys will have to eat losses to cover theirs.

Edit (Further):

Then the big guys gobble it all up at lower prices after the little guys have to dump...

Then when the little guys can afford to get back in, they have to buy back in at a higher price.

Rinse and repeat.

Edit (Even further):

Don't forget the reason for the lower tax rate and deferred taxation in the first place. The reason was to encourage investors to hold their securities for long term.

If you take away this incentive, why would anyone take on the risk of long term investment? That would be insane? Volatility would be flat out nuts.
RayR Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
rfenst wrote:
Wrong. I just want everyone subject to taxes to pay "equally." The tax code needs to be amended to foreclose the uber-wealthy from tax avoidance- just because they are uber-wealthy. They may be smarter, take greater risks, earn greater rewards, have access to better resources, but at the end of the day, that doesn't, IMO, entitle them to a proportionally smaller dose of poison than everyone else. No one likes having to pay taxes, but complaining about that fact incessantly is useless. They will never go away. It's just a bunch of words that solve nothing. Try making reality/$hit work for you whichever way it is shoveled in your direction. It works if you really try- instead of just complaining about it all the time like a one-trick pony.


In other words, poison is good for ya, and you are one of those "you didn't build that", "pay your fair share" O'Biden types?
What's yours is the governments and they'll wisely decide what you can keep? The tax code is a monsterous abomination. Are you one of those that think...well if we just tweak it here and there, make it a teensy more bigger to make it more equitable, it'll be all better and the evil will be exorcised from it?

So I should shut up, stop complaining and watch what's left of the old republic continue to go to $hit so future generations can share in even greater monsters brought on by servitude to an increasingly centralized government? A bright future of more endless wars and endless corruption. Yeh! Get what piece of the pie you can grab now and screw the kids and the grandkids, let them eat cake!

I'm an American traditionalist, I don't celebrate what's become fashionable incarnations of leftist tyranny like Marxism, the Progressive Income Tax, and all the associated evils they've spawned and I won't surrender to the idea that it'll be reality forever and ever and they'll never go away. Oh, they'll go away one way or another, sooner or later alright. It's just a matter of the level of misery that'll come by trying to postpone the inevitable.

Maybe you should heed the words of earlier men and their forewarnings. like Justice Stephen Field, who predicted a small progressive tax, “will be but the stepping stone to others, larger and more sweeping, till our political contests will become a war of the poor against the rich.”
Damn! That guy must of had a crystal ball to see where that path would lead to the future as it has become today.

The Progressive Income Tax in U.S. History
The root of much evil.

https://fee.org/articles/the-progressive-income-tax-in-us-history/
HockeyDad Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
bgz wrote:
Think about this, at what point do they do the unrealized gains? at 23:59:59 on Dec 31?

What happens if it all sh*ts on Jan 2nd?

How do you ethically reconcile that? Everyone that will get murdered by that will be the little guy... guess who will cause it?

The big guys dumping sh*t to pay taxes on their unrealized gains.

Then all the little guys will have to eat losses to cover theirs.

Edit (Further):

Then the big guys gobble it all up at lower prices after the little guys have to dump...

Then when the little guys can afford to get back in, they have to buy back in at a higher price.

Rinse and repeat.

Edit (Even further):

Don't forget the reason for the lower tax rate and deferred taxation in the first place. The reason was to encourage investors to hold their securities for long term.

If you take away this incentive, why would anyone take on the risk of long term investment? That would be insane? Volatility would be flat out nuts.



If we created this to meet Rfenst’s tax equity plan to punish the uber-rich I would simply move money to hedge funds to take advantage of the chaos.
rfenst Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
HockeyDad wrote:
If we created this to meet Rfenst’s tax equity plan to punish the uber-rich I would simply move money to hedge funds to take advantage of the chaos.

I would have thought you would go to crypto.
HockeyDad Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
rfenst wrote:
I would have thought you would go to crypto.


Crypto only exists at the government’s discretion.
rfenst Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
HockeyDad wrote:
Crypto only exists at the government’s discretion.

True, just like so many other things in life.
rfenst Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
RayR wrote:
... It's just one way the politicians and their rich supporters avoid "paying their fair share".


How can you be OK with this?
HockeyDad Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
“Paying their fair share” is just newspeak for confiscation.

“If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.” ~ Ronald Reagan.

That sums up why our tax code is so complicated.
rfenst Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
HockeyDad wrote:
“Paying their fair share” is just newspeak for confiscation.

“If you want more of something, subsidize it; if you want less of something, tax it.” ~ Ronald Reagan.

That sums up why our tax code is so complicated.

I agree.
But, it's rigged against 98.2% of Americans.
HockeyDad Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
If it was then the top 2% would already be murdered.

Subsidies and tax penalties just aren’t aimed at 100% of the people. Many people don’t even pay tax.

rfenst Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
HockeyDad wrote:
If it was then the top 2% would already be murdered.

Subsidies and tax penalties just aren’t aimed at 100% of the people. Many people don’t even pay tax.


Yes. Eventually, the top 2% (and more) will get slaughtered. Greed is human nature. Sometimes for better (e.g. capitalism) and other times for worse (e.g. anarchy and totalitarianism). Worse is coming. It's inevitable. That was known from the very start. We have already experienced the beginning of it in the race riots of the '60s and 70's, etc., etc., and in what is going on now.
frankj1 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
what about us???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o
ZRX1200 Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,477
rfenst wrote:
We have already experienced the beginning of it in the race riots of the '60s and 70's, etc., etc., and in what is going on now.



They should have tried “mostly peaceful” riots….
HockeyDad Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
rfenst wrote:
Yes. Eventually, the top 2% (and more) will get slaughtered. Greed is human nature. Sometimes for better (e.g. capitalism) and other times for worse (e.g. anarchy and totalitarianism). Worse is coming. It's inevitable. That was known from the very start. We have already experienced the beginning of it in the race riots of the '60s and 70's, etc., etc., and in what is going on now.


Sounds like somebody needs a day at Walt Disney’s Magic Kingdom and a night at the Contemporary Resort! That will shake off that whole “kill the rich” doom and gloom.
bgz Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
HockeyDad wrote:
Sounds like somebody needs a day at Walt Disney’s Magic Kingdom and a night at the Contemporary Resort! That will shake off that whole “kill the rich” doom and gloom.


Just did that... I feel like a baller now. Broke baller, but baller never the less.
rfenst Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,112
HockeyDad wrote:
Sounds like somebody needs a day at Walt Disney’s Magic Kingdom and a night at the Contemporary Resort! That will shake off that whole “kill the rich” doom and gloom.

Meh. It's supposed to rain. I'll get over it within a few days without the The Mouse. LOL.
RayR Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
rfenst wrote:
Yes. Eventually, the top 2% (and more) will get slaughtered. Greed is human nature. Sometimes for better (e.g. capitalism) and other times for worse (e.g. anarchy and totalitarianism). Worse is coming. It's inevitable. That was known from the very start. We have already experienced the beginning of it in the race riots of the '60s and 70's, etc., etc., and in what is going on now.


We could use some anarchy right about now, too much archy leads to totalitarianism.
bgz Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
rfenst wrote:
Meh. It's supposed to rain. I'll get over it within a few days without the The Mouse. LOL.


Make it rain with the mouse!!!
RayR Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
‘Freeloading’ Elon Musk to Pay Largest Federal Tax Bill in History, an Estimated $8.3 Billion

The Tesla founder is expected to pay the largest federal tax bill in history—but his critics say that's not enough.

Friday, December 17, 2021

Quote:
Elon Musk made a bold claim on Twitter on Tuesday. The Tesla founder said he would “pay more taxes than any American in history this year.”

Is the claim true? Only the IRS knows for certain who the largest taxpayer in US history is, but Forbes says Musk appears to be right.

“The eccentric billionaire (and the world’s richest person) likely owes the federal government at least $8.3 billion for 2021,” Forbes reports.

Business Insider projects Musk’s tax bill is even higher when state taxes are included.

“Taxes on his stock, nearly a billion in Net Investment Income Tax, and the billions he likely owes California could add up to about $12 billion in total,” report Jason Lalljee and Andy Kiersz.

CNBC, meanwhile, figured Musk’s total tax bill was even higher—$15 billion.

The bulk of Musk’s tax bill stems from the nearly $13 billion in Tesla stock sold as of December 13, which is even larger than the record $10.2 billion worth of Amazon stock Jeff Bezos sold last year.

More...

https://fee.org/articles/freeloading-elon-musk-to-pay-largest-federal-tax-bill-in-history-an-estimated-83-billion/

frankj1 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
why do you love him?
he didn't own slaves, did he?
RayR Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
frankj1 wrote:
why do you love him?
he didn't own slaves, did he?


Who said I loved him? I'm just reporting the news for the "pay yer fair share" lovers who are drooling at all the good things the gubment is going to do with that $8.3 Billion they'll expropriate from Musk. Sounds like he's the slave to me.


frankj1 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
maybe they'll refund the money to the solar customers?
HA!
HockeyDad Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,069
frankj1 wrote:
maybe they'll refund the money to the solar customers?
HA!


California is looking to cut solar subsidies to homeowners and raise fees on solar customers for electricity equity.

In other news all new construction is required to have solar installed.
RayR Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
frankj1 wrote:
maybe they'll refund the money to the solar customers?
HA!


Ya, that's a thought, they might use Musk's own money to subsidize Green Jobs.
Da gubment is so smart at reallocating capital you know, not like those know-nothing capitalists. Sarcasm
RayR Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
HockeyDad wrote:
California is looking to cut solar subsidies to homeowners and raise fees on solar customers for electricity equity.

In other news all new construction is required to have solar installed.


HD, This world would be in a sorry place without gubment mandated equity. They're so smart. Don't ya think?
Meanwhile, I hear the California exodus continues.
BuckyB93 Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
Musk doesn't make government policy on rebates, subsidies, incentives for customers buying "green energy solutions." The government creates these policies. If you have a problems with these policies, subsidizes and incentives, blast the government not the companies looking to supply the products to meet customer demand.

Why should Musk be criticized if part of his business targets customer demand for such products - a demand that is buoyed by government energy policies? Indirectly does he gain from such policies, Yes. So do other companies involved with theses technologies.

I'm all for green energy and some government support to foster R&D, jump start the industry and push this agenda (to a certain degree) but at some point it will have to stand on it's own.

Recently, Tesla withdrew it's application for for state aid for its planned battery factory in Germany. They were expected to receive about $1.3B US but they canceled their application.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-withdrew-state-funding-application-german-battery-plant-economy-ministry-2021-11-26/

Now, I'm sure that he's not doing it out of the kindness of his heart. I'm sure that there are probably business decisions in the details that led to this. Probably some stipulations on how the money can be spent which he didn't like... just guessing.

With that said, pretty sure that Musk can move forward doing what he wants and when he wants without leaning on government subsidies.

RayR Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
I think you'd guessing right Bucky, it's those government strings that are always attached to the carrot of subsidies that can have a bad taste.
BuckyB93 Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,111
HockeyDad wrote:
California is looking to cut solar subsidies to homeowners and raise fees on solar customers for electricity equity.

In other news all new construction is required to have solar installed.


I knew of the requirement of all new construction needing solar installed. Now they are looking to penalize those that actually use solar energy? I had to look it up.

"California regulators on Monday proposed requiring people with rooftop solar panels to pay more of the costs of operating the electric grid, a plan that some supporters of clean energy argued could greatly reduce the incentive for new residential installations."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/business/energy-environment/california-solar-roof-incentive.html

Bizzaro world... Utilities are pissed at folks that want to minimize their electric bills so let's increase the bills on those that do so.

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five percent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman

I'll tax the street
(If you try to sit, sit) I'll tax your seat
(If you get too cold, cold) I'll tax the heat
(If you take a walk, walk) I'll tax your feet
(Taxman)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0zaebtU-CA
frankj1 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
BuckyB93 wrote:
Musk doesn't make government policy on rebates, subsidies, incentives for customers buying "green energy solutions." The government creates these policies. If you have a problems with these policies, subsidizes and incentives, blast the government not the companies looking to supply the products to meet customer demand.

Why should Musk be criticized if part of his business targets customer demand for such products - a demand that is buoyed by government energy policies? Indirectly does he gain from such policies, Yes. So do other companies involved with theses technologies.

I'm all for green energy and some government support to foster R&D, jump start the industry and push this agenda (to a certain degree) but at some point it will have to stand on it's own.

Recently, Tesla withdrew it's application for for state aid for its planned battery factory in Germany. They were expected to receive about $1.3B US but they canceled their application.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-withdrew-state-funding-application-german-battery-plant-economy-ministry-2021-11-26/

Now, I'm sure that he's not doing it out of the kindness of his heart. I'm sure that there are probably business decisions in the details that led to this. Probably some stipulations on how the money can be spent which he didn't like... just guessing.

With that said, pretty sure that Musk can move forward doing what he wants and when he wants without leaning on government subsidies.


don't know much about the battery thing but pretty much agree with what you wrote above that.
But I think the purists among us wouldn't want any incentives at all though, and that might have prevented both the push to create and the ability to afford things such as Tesla.
Stogie1020 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,231
Instead of being mad at Musk/Tesla, we should really all be mad at Toyota. Those Priuses (Priiii?) are effing fugly...

The Prius owners who got Fed rebates said they came with a card that said "Your rebate is actually a consolation prize for driving that ugly thing."
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Stogie1020 wrote:
Instead of being mad at Musk/Tesla, we should really all be mad at Toyota. Those Priuses (Priiii?) are effing fugly...

The Prius owners who got Fed rebates said they cam witha card that said "Your rebate is actually a consolation prize for driving that ugly thing."

they really are ugly.
I have two friends that own Teslas, both are very happy after a couple of years. Both can "fill up" for free at the local dealer too I believe, at least they could a while ago.

I'm not mad at Musk, I happen to be rooting for him to do even more and to enjoy the successes and money that he deserves...don't tell Ray but I'm a capitalist. My knock on Musk is preaching the opposite of what he did/does.
It's the hypocritical preaching, not the success that bugs me.
RayR Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
Biden said "I'm a capitalist" too. Talk is cheap. We know he's full of crap.
frankj1 Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
RayR wrote:
Biden said "I'm a capitalist" too. Talk is cheap. We know he's full of crap.

well that's a twist we never saw coming to change direction...
Smooth light Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Dividends are the mother's milk of capitalism !!
RayR Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
Biden Crime Family says bribery is the mother's milk of President'n.
frankj1 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
and yet another misdirection that came out of the blue...yawn
RayR Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
frankj1 wrote:
and yet another misdirection that came out of the blue...yawn


I'm the King of misdirect'n and disinformation some people say.
RayR Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,802
Back on topic for Frank.
This is very interesting...

"If You Could Die Of Irony, She Would Be Dead": Musk Slams Liz Warren And Woke Culture In Epic Babylon Bee Interview

BY TYLER DURDEN
TUESDAY, DEC 21, 2021 - 11:00 PM

Quote:
Elon Musk just sat down with the guys from the Babylon Bee for a 54-minute interview, where the Tesla and SpaceX founder savaged Sen. Liz Warren, and described woke culture as a "mind virus."

"You were pretty mean to Senator Warren there on Twitter recently," said Babylon Bee EIC Kyle Mann. "Ya slammed her man."

"Please don't call the manager on me, Senator Karen," he continued - citing Musk's December 14th response to Warren slamming him for not paying 'enough' taxes.

More...

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/if-you-could-die-irony-she-would-be-dead-musk-savages-liz-warren-and-woke-culture-epic
Dg west deptford Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
I was encouraged by musks words on woke culture

Balls are admirable but he's uncancelable so he could speak much louder than he does.

I love it that he gave the Bee such an interesting interview

He's not perverted enough to give one to CNN

Speyside2 Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,307
He keeps it interesting.
frankj1 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
he was pretty decent on SNL last year. Appeared to be on the spectrum too.
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