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Last post 4 months ago by Sunoverbeach. 93 replies replies.
Poll Question : What is the biggest obstacle to lessening division
Choice Votes Statistics
Getting past our own biases 0 0 %
Acknowledging our acceptance of oppositional ideas 1 4 %
Challenging our own ideas 1 4 %
Trying harder to be “decent” 0 0 %
Turning off television/social media 4 16 %
Being more religious 1 4 %
Being less religious 1 4 %
Smoking more weed/ eating more shrooms 2 8 %
Hanging politicians that don’t uphold their oaths 12 50 %
Quit eating communist waffles and eat pancakes 2 8 %
Total 24 100%

2 Pages<12
Philosophical question
bgz Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
frankj1 wrote:
little did you know I flunked Philosophy 101.
Missed the final cuz I went to a 3 day party somewhere near Kutztown State College with a buddy from Bethlehem PA.
His dad was filthy rich and sent a single engine plane that picked us up somewhere near Seneca Falls NY (we were "attending" Eisenhower College 1971) and flew us to Lancaster PA (before Mr Jones saved the planet) and had a new BMW waiting for us to complete the trip.

To this day, I feel it was worth it. Woulda killed my kids if they did it.


Worth it.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,194
frankj1 wrote:
So I went 3rd party again for reasons stated a few times.
Wish you had done the same in 2016.


Gary Johnson?

Look, I have zero respect for a Libertarian that shows up to a debate or a TV interview and they're stoned out of their mind. Gary couldn't help himself either. I couldn't tell if he was trying too hard to be cool or just didn't GAF but letting a guy that couldn't answer basic geography or topics of the day questions off the cuff...naw. If he couldn't take himself seriously, there's no way I would take him seriously. Personally, I fell he doomed the 3rd party with his behavior. Jill didn't help much either.

https://youtu.be/pcj8yJk87cs

https://youtu.be/hdkznU2IvfU


RayR Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
frankj1 wrote:
guilty as charged.


AHHA!

Don't be coy with me playing with my wurds!

Your wurds:

"some progressive stuff is not distasteful to me, I am a left of center Liberal on many issues after all."

"I'm far likelier to go Democrat"


Wurds have meaning...LEFTY!
Now we know why you cringe when I call the LEFT Evil!
Now we know that you only vote Libertarian as a protest vote because the far left is too icky even for you!
Now we know why you hate Lew Rockwell, because he is Against The Left.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/lew-rockwell/against-the-left/

You can't identify as a libertarian or an old right conservative because we are against the left in principle, none of that left-of-center sissy pants stuff!. whip




bgz Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
I identify as no party affiliation out of principle.
RayR Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
bgz wrote:
I identify as no party affiliation out of principle.


Party affiliation or not means nothing.
But it's too late for that canard, we know you have no principles.
bgz Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
But I do... you all a bunch of shady mother f*ckers.... I don't choose sides.
RayR Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
bgz wrote:
But I do... you all a bunch of shady mother f*ckers.... I don't choose sides.


But I do choose sides, I'm against the LEFT.
If anyone wants to start an argument, I'll be opposing the left-liberals, left-conservatives (neocons), and left-libertarians.
frankj1 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,940
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Gary Johnson?

Look, I have zero respect for a Libertarian that shows up to a debate or a TV interview and they're stoned out of their mind. Gary couldn't help himself either. I couldn't tell if he was trying too hard to be cool or just didn't GAF but letting a guy that couldn't answer basic geography or topics of the day questions off the cuff...naw. If he couldn't take himself seriously, there's no way I would take him seriously. Personally, I fell he doomed the 3rd party with his behavior. Jill didn't help much either.

https://youtu.be/pcj8yJk87cs

https://youtu.be/hdkznU2IvfU



but don't you see that Johnson wasn't being voted for to win, the 15% could have helped to plant seeds for a real party that could nominate a real candidate 4 or 8 years later.

We're still where we were when you were turned off enough to even participate in the process.
frankj1 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,940
RayR wrote:
AHHA!

Don't be coy with me playing with my wurds!

Your wurds:

"some progressive stuff is not distasteful to me, I am a left of center Liberal on many issues after all."

"I'm far likelier to go Democrat"


Wurds have meaning...LEFTY!
Now we know why you cringe when I call the LEFT Evil!
Now we know that you only vote Libertarian as a protest vote because the far left is too icky even for you!
Now we know why you hate Lew Rockwell, because he is Against The Left.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/08/lew-rockwell/against-the-left/

You can't identify as a libertarian or an old right conservative because we are against the left in principle, none of that left-of-center sissy pants stuff!. whip





couple of things before I dismiss you.

I believe what I believe, and I would not go against change if it was demonstrably better than what I had supported.
I seek solutions, and while knowing no side can always be right (or always be wrong) I listen.
I am not a controlled dogmatic one note like you, clinging to a philosophy despite the reality of life in this world.

Also not remotely offended being called LEFTY...whatever are you thinking that accomplishes?
You neither make me nor others cringe.
Your opinions are basically inconsequential outside of a classroom discussion.

Now you are dismissed.
bgz Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
RayR wrote:
But I do choose sides, I'm against the LEFT.
If anyone wants to start an argument, I'll be opposing the left-liberals, left-conservatives (neocons), and left-libertarians.


Meh... all you political nuts look the same to me.
RayR Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
frankj1 wrote:
couple of things before I dismiss you.

I believe what I believe, and I would not go against change if it was demonstrably better than what I had supported.
I seek solutions, and while knowing no side can always be right (or always be wrong) I listen.
I am not a controlled dogmatic one note like you, clinging to a philosophy despite the reality of life in this world.

Also not remotely offended being called LEFTY...whatever are you thinking that accomplishes?
You neither make me nor others cringe.
Your opinions are basically inconsequential outside of a classroom discussion.

Now you are dismissed.


Excuuuuuuse me, your dismissive highness.
If I could believe you actually listen and seek solutions, you wouldn't be at all be lured by the progressive dogma and singing kumbaya with the left.

"The greatest obstacle to the spread of the philosophy of freedom described in Against the State is the ideology of the left . The Left wants to destroy the traditional institutions of civil society, especially the family. It wants to wipe out all differences between people and make us “equal” slaves of the all-powerful State."

Lew's book free...
https://mises.org/library/against-left

tonygraz Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 18,326
Many of those leaning far right have no ability to reason - other than hate the left or progressive.
DrafterX Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 96,113
Everybody hates da progressives... Not talking
ZRX1200 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,417
Tony you ever think there’s maybe a reason for that?

Or are you just choosing the reaction so that you can pass judgement on something you don’t like. There’s a name for that.
HockeyDad Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 43,464
DrafterX wrote:
Everybody hates da progressives... Not talking


That’s because they ruin everything they touch.
RayR Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
#63, #64, #65 ThumpUp

#62 🐑💩

Sunoverbeach Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
Carpe per diem - seize the check
- RW
bgz Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
#66 ... devil human... might be part lizard
bgz Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
#69.... ya, that's right.
ZRX1200 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,417
I think you mean “seize those cheeks”…..
Sunoverbeach Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
Carpe Gluteum
RayR Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
#68 & #69 🐄💩
frankj1 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,940
RayR wrote:
Excuuuuuuse me, your dismissive highness.
If I could believe you actually listen and seek solutions, you wouldn't be at all be lured by the progressive dogma and singing kumbaya with the left.

"The greatest obstacle to the spread of the philosophy of freedom described in Against the State is the ideology of the left . The Left wants to destroy the traditional institutions of civil society, especially the family. It wants to wipe out all differences between people and make us “equal” slaves of the all-powerful State."

Lew's book free...
https://mises.org/library/against-left


I owe you.
Making my point better than I did.

If someone is seeking solutions vs dogma they'd only listen to you...the puppet of Louie.

Bye.
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 96,113
Louie-dog..?? Huh
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,940
DrafterX wrote:
Louie-dog..?? Huh

I hope he's OK!!!
when he barks, ray's lips move.
RayR Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
#73 & #75 🐴 💩
JadeRose Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,377
ZRX1200 wrote:
I think you mean “seize those cheeks”…..



This made me moist
DrMaddVibe Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,194
frankj1 wrote:
but don't you see that Johnson wasn't being voted for to win, the 15% could have helped to plant seeds for a real party that could nominate a real candidate 4 or 8 years later.

We're still where we were when you were turned off enough to even participate in the process.


I wasn't turned off. I voted in the election, just not for President in 2016. I simply didn't believe in him enough to give it and really didn't like Pence either. He brought nothing to the table. He didn't do anything to destroy the ticket or the frontrunner, it's just he didn't swing California or New York to go red. He was like vanilla ice cream to me. Bland. I still don't understand what Trump saw in him to make that selection.

The 3rd party had already decimated itself into oblivion way before the 2016 election. I totally get that Johnson wasted all of the Perot's effort to validate a 3rd party being recognized nationally on a ballot. He personally made them a laughing stock.

If the parties (and there are a slew of them!) were serious about garnering the coveted 15% then perhaps they shouldn't be stoned on camera, come prepared to give cognizant debate for what and where they stand on the issues, not wear robes and a boot on their head, perhaps wear at least business casual instead of lingerie and maybe...just maybe people will take them seriously enough to give them their vote and support.

Johnson garnered the most support a Libertarian candidate ever received with 4,489,233 total votes. He didn't do enough for me to vote for him or his party. I did vote for Trump in 2020 based solely on a promises made and promises kept basis. He wanted a secure border and it was FINALLY under construction. We were energy independent for the 1st time in 70 years and exporting! We didn't have any new wars and were drawing down the Afghan conflict (which Creepy Joe would later try to blame on Trump unsuccessfully and blame it on his generals unsuccessfully as well). The economy before Covid was as robust as the Reagan economy and I never thought I'd see that run-up again. Then again, I thought I'd never see the abysmal spectre of inflation like the Carter years. At least Jimmy had America's back. King Bidas only wants to put all of America on their backs so his WEF pals can run the place again. He accomplished all of that with the DNC machinery ramping up impeachment charges every time he farted. The presstitutes were there to cover all of it and were full TDS cheerleaders.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
Jack Nicholson was with me at a benefit and leaned over and said ‘even oysters have enemies.’ In a very intense voice. I responded with ‘Increase your dosage.'
- RW
bgz Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
Sunoverbeach wrote:
Jack Nicholson was with me at a benefit and leaned over and said ‘even oysters have enemies.’ In a very intense voice. I responded with ‘Increase your dosage.'
- RW


Psssst... you weren't RW, and DMV wasn't Jack Nicholson.
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 41,940
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I wasn't turned off. I voted in the election, just not for President in 2016. I simply didn't believe in him enough to give it and really didn't like Pence either. He brought nothing to the table. He didn't do anything to destroy the ticket or the frontrunner, it's just he didn't swing California or New York to go red. He was like vanilla ice cream to me. Bland. I still don't understand what Trump saw in him to make that selection.

The 3rd party had already decimated itself into oblivion way before the 2016 election. I totally get that Johnson wasted all of the Perot's effort to validate a 3rd party being recognized nationally on a ballot. He personally made them a laughing stock.

If the parties (and there are a slew of them!) were serious about garnering the coveted 15% then perhaps they shouldn't be stoned on camera, come prepared to give cognizant debate for what and where they stand on the issues, not wear robes and a boot on their head, perhaps wear at least business casual instead of lingerie and maybe...just maybe people will take them seriously enough to give them their vote and support.

Johnson garnered the most support a Libertarian candidate ever received with 4,489,233 total votes. He didn't do enough for me to vote for him or his party. I did vote for Trump in 2020 based solely on a promises made and promises kept basis. He wanted a secure border and it was FINALLY under construction. We were energy independent for the 1st time in 70 years and exporting! We didn't have any new wars and were drawing down the Afghan conflict (which Creepy Joe would later try to blame on Trump unsuccessfully and blame it on his generals unsuccessfully as well). The economy before Covid was as robust as the Reagan economy and I never thought I'd see that run-up again. Then again, I thought I'd never see the abysmal spectre of inflation like the Carter years. At least Jimmy had America's back. King Bidas only wants to put all of America on their backs so his WEF pals can run the place again. He accomplished all of that with the DNC machinery ramping up impeachment charges every time he farted. The presstitutes were there to cover all of it and were full TDS cheerleaders.

Pence= prolife votes. especially the yuuuuge religion folks...enough to make Trump comfy with vanilla. Not likely to rock the boat, gave out a vibe that when things were going to be wildly insane in the Oval Office, America could trust him to calm things down...obviously I didn't buy in but it's just how it looked to me.

Johnson was an ill informed goofball, and his party tried to bring the appearance of confidence with former GOP Gov of MA William Weld, but he's just another guy who looks like a president. Would switch parties in a heartbeat.

I voted for Perot...once.

I personally benefitted in the Reagan years, the easing of credit led to vast opportunities, but all the stuff that tagged along (banks having almost zero risk, no actual products or industries on which to build a lasting economy etc) also caused things to collapse...I know, I know, not a popular opinion and a whole 'nother thread.

Carter was probably just as abused daily as Trump but the style was less attack back then. Trump might have to look in a mirror to see who popularized the change to nastiness.

I was wrong thinking you did not vote at all. Probably shoulda figured.


Sunoverbeach Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
[On the flying scenes in Hook] I felt bad for the five guys who had to haul my fat ass up. At that time there were very few mechanical devices so it was literally guys on pulleys flying me across - I think it was 2 guys to pull me across. They would say "we're doing another take" and they would say "oh, not again."
- RW
DrMaddVibe Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 52,194
frankj1 wrote:
Pence= prolife votes. especially the yuuuuge religion folks...enough to make Trump comfy with vanilla. Not likely to rock the boat, gave out a vibe that when things were going to be wildly insane in the Oval Office, America could trust him to calm things down...obviously I didn't buy in but it's just how it looked to me.

Johnson was an ill informed goofball, and his party tried to bring the appearance of confidence with former GOP Gov of MA William Weld, but he's just another guy who looks like a president. Would switch parties in a heartbeat.

I voted for Perot...once.

I personally benefitted in the Reagan years, the easing of credit led to vast opportunities, but all the stuff that tagged along (banks having almost zero risk, no actual products or industries on which to build a lasting economy etc) also caused things to collapse...I know, I know, not a popular opinion and a whole 'nother thread.

Carter was probably just as abused daily as Trump but the style was less attack back then. Trump might have to look in a mirror to see who popularized the change to nastiness.

I was wrong thinking you did not vote at all. Probably shoulda figured.





I never got what you did with Pence. I never heard about evangelicals lining up to support either Trump or Pence. Never saw that materialize...at all. While they typically throw in with the GOP due to family values like pro-Life I just don't remember seeing all the TV preachers or large church cult leaders supporting them openly with your calming vibe. Especially now. EVERYTHING the media and the DNC said about Trump, King Bidas (I call him that because EVERYTHING he touches has the reverse effect of King Midas's touch...his was gold, Joe's is crap!)has done or is doing. Humiliating the US on the world stage? Check. Ramping up wars? Check. Being mentally unstable? Check. Children raping government agencies for cash? Check.

You called Trump a grifter a couple of posts ago. Trump inherited his money. Kept it rolling by land development. Sure there were the "university", steaks, tv show...meh. Unseemingly but no less crimiinal than ITT Tech, Omaha Steak Co. and America's Got Talent to me. WYSIWYG. To expect more is on them. Care to explain how King Bidas earned his wealth? I mean we can use your term "Grifter" more aptly with him than Trump. He earned his off of insider trading, skimming and outright kickbacks from family members whom made deals with him in tow.

If Johnson was an affable goofball...then dragging a MA governor by the nose because he was a Republican that would later endorse Biden???...that makes him a bigger goofball!

I worked for H. Ross Perot's company twice. Electronic Data Systems. It was a great company who's business model is absent now. A real shame. I was groomed for success in that and at one time was being shaped up with another peer of mine for a Vice President level position. I walked my self down the ladder due to traveling 9 months of the year while maintaining a family. It was grueling. I stayed with the customer and technology and was a system analyst. My handiwork is still with GM in the Corvette plant. Perot's gift of hiring ex-military was a godsend in that the company had a backbone. A given spine that almost everyone had in common the traits that got us all through basic training, our job schools and service. Service was the key. You HAD to deliver or you were bounced. In comparison to today's workforce, I've seen better people walk the plank than the best younger talent I've seen in the past 10 years. Perot wanted to take what worked for his customers (most government contracts) and get America's books balanced. A formidable and noble idea that was getting no press. Him calling it the “crazy aunt you keep down in the basement." was spot on. It was only because he was a business man that he recognized what would rot America from within. He was proven more correct than History gives him. His selection for VP and quitting and then restarting the race kept me from supporting him. While I admired his corporate stances I wasn't allowed to quit without penalty. He did. I saw him with clarity most didn't because I was on the "inside". When I walked down on my own, I all but assured my equal the slot and he even said so over dinner to me. He thought it was going to be me all the way because of gifts I had that he didn't. Perot did usher in the ability for a 3rd party to exist. All of them squandered it. All of them. Ron Paul saw it too and was able to keep the plates spinning because he did have the political capital Perot didn't. It was Paul's fault that he was a straight shooter and honest that doomed him from higher office. Both would've made great Presidents. Better than their contemporaries and perhaps, if given the rope they needed would've turned America's debt and failed trade dealings back into the powerhouse Trump was trying to do.

There were few people that didn't profit from the Reagan Presidency. You would have to be a blithering idiot to not. He turned over the keys of a chugging locomotive in full steam to a CIA Deep State director and an immoral Arkansas criminal enterprise (even to this day!) shyster that only bled it out to the point we're at now. Trump modeled an economic turnaround like Reagan's. How you missed that is beyond me. There hasn't been an administration since that had getting America back on top as a cornerstone.

Carter was a media darling. EVERYONE loved him. He is a decent man that got exploited like Grant. Their cabinet's used the nation like their little play toy with reckless abandon. He left in disgrace due to his bungling of Iran, a failed energy policy and a crumbling economy. Sound familiar? It should. It should chill your bones and make you want to vomit because you already lived this. Despite what you knew and profited from there's nothing Biden does to merit praise or acceptance. You shot your anger at all the wrong targets and followed the presstitutes. Your scorn (even today) of Trump, while you can give it...he didn't earn most of what everyone said. That's just factual. Even now they want to smear him as an "insurrectionist leader" that caused the Capitol Hill riot. We know that he wanted to call in the National Guard waaaay beforehand but was stymied by the Mayor of DC and the uber grift dealer Speaker of the House Pelosi. Then the charges of cheating...each month another batch of states and counties report they either did in fact break existing laws or there was fraud. It happened. Coupled with Biden's kid and his "missing laptop"? The media is already stating that that caused a 17% sway that independents and democrats wouldn't have voted for Biden. If they claim 17%, I'm willing to say it was probably closed to 25% or larger.

As for voting...I said here exactly what I did and that the only empty box unchecked was for the Office of the Presidency. For the 1st time in my life I abstained from completing a ballot. I have never missed an election. Especially local ones. With everything I've seen in my lifetime I can honestly state that there is no way on God's planet that I will ever vote for another democrat again. Ever. They sealed that with who and what they are. If at this stage you can't see it or admit to yourself who/what they are that's not on anyone else. They are inherently evil. They always have been and now are more unashamed to be on the record with it. We don't agree politically. Stop taking it personal. I'm doing what I've always done. I'm going to call it out and back it in the here and now. I'm not going to use Time nor Historic fondness to warp their doings. I've shown that time and again.

RayR Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 5,885
UhOh! You said the left is inherently evil. Anxious
That Left-O-Center Frank is going to be angry. Mad

Prolly Benji too I bet. Anxious
Sunoverbeach Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
Haven’t you noticed that every time the government f*cks up McDonald’s has a new sandwich?
- BB
ZRX1200 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,417
Are you McRibbing me?
Sunoverbeach Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
No way, man. I'm too McChicken
bgz Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
At least you know who the Big Mac is around here.
ZRX1200 Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,417
And who the Royale with Cheese between his ears is too……

bgz Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 12,678
Sounds like you got a Royale with Cheese between your buns there Mr. Mac.
CelticBomber Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,680
The biggest obstacle to lessening division.

Our own complacency. We allowed a few companies to take over all of the news outlets that are supposed to keep us informed. So, we now have a culture where most people let these news outlets give us our opinions. It's easier than thinking for ourselves. It makes it nearly impossible for two sides to come to any consensus. Republicans and Democrats will vote down bills that would benefit everyone because neither side wants to let the other get any credit for doing something good. They live in fear that it will hurt them in the next election. We're willing to hold the other side accountable but, not our own.
ZRX1200 Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 57,417
LMAO bills that help people….
Sunoverbeach Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 11,736
My favorite kind of humor is basically if it was happening to you, it wouldn’t be funny, but to observe it, it’s hilarious.
- BB
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