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Last post 21 months ago by tonygraz. 23 replies replies.
PSA on Relative Humidity and Cigars
LeeBot Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2020
Posts: 1,920
There seem to have been a more questions about humidity and humidifiers lately, so here's a few quick tips that are independent of the humidifier system you use.

Relative humidity is "relative" to the temperature. It's a measure of how saturated the air is. Warm air hold more moisture than cold air. So, increasing or decreasing the temperature in a humidor will change the RH reading without actually changing the amount of moisture in your humidor (coolerdor, tuperdor, panty drawer, whatever).

One consequence of this is that that an RH reading, without a simultaneous temperature reading, is useless. It's like telling someone how much water you have by saying that your bucket is 2/3 full, without telling them how big the bucket is. 5 gallons or 1 gallon? Frank, supposedly, has a big bucket, but I've never seen it, that's just the innuendo on the street.

One corollary to this is to say goodbye to analog RH hydrometers and good riddance. Without a temperature reading, they're as useful as a football bat. I got a nice Elie Bleu humidor as a gift one time, and it had an analog hydrometer in it. I couldn't believe it. I threw it away (the hydrometer, not the humidor). Cheap bastards!

People on the forum often talk about RH without talking about temperature. I think it's because most people are just assuming 70F. (I'm not going to talk about why Americans still use Fahrenheit and the imperial system of measurements. cause, well, 'Merica!)

But small changes in temperature make a big difference in the RH reading. The official fiction is 70Rh at 70F. But I think most people on the forum prefer the RH a little lower. I like my cigars in the 65-70 range at 70F, with 68Rh being about ideal, but tastes vary. You don't need to be anal retentive about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to judge a man for retaining whatever he wants in his anus (none of my business), but for humidor purposes, think more about a range of humidity rather than an exact amount. You'll work less and enjoy more. I'm mostly happy with anything between 62 and 72 RH at 70 degrees. With my ideal of 68RH, dropping the temperature from 70 to 67 raises the RH to 75, but it doesn't change the amount of moisture, just the RH. If you didn't know the temperature, and just saw 75RH, you might think it's too high, but it's not. It's perfect.

The simplest and easiest to use online RH converter that I am aware of is at this link.

http://bmcnoldy.rsmas.miami.edu/Humidity.html

Click the "Fahrenheit" button because you're backwards and antiquated like the rest of us. Then enter the temperature and RH from your digital hydrometer, and calculate the dew point. For these purposes, the dew point represents the amount of moisture in your box, so leave that alone. You can then change the temperature and recalculate the RH to see what the RH would be a different temperatures given that amount of moisture. It's easier than I make it sound. Unless you maintain your house at exactly 70F year round, you should be using something like this calculator to know exactly how moist your sticks really are.

If you have any questions about any of this, don't hesitate to PM clintCigar. He's the real resident expert around here on RH and humidifying systems.



Jsnyder147 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2020
Posts: 478
Thanks for this information, really helpful. I’ve really enjoyed my inkbird digital hygrometers. With temp and RH combined, they give a nice view of the environment in the humidor. Sounds like your preferred dew point is around 59. I’ll definitely be using this calculator going forward. Thanks again.
RMAN4443 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
LeeBot wrote:
There seem to have been a more questions about humidity and humidifiers lately, so here's a few quick tips that are independent of the humidifier system you use.

Relative humidity is "relative" to the temperature. It's a measure of how saturated the air is. Warm air hold more moisture than cold air. So, increasing or decreasing the temperature in a humidor will change the RH reading without actually changing the amount of moisture in your humidor (coolerdor, tuperdor, panty drawer, whatever).

One consequence of this is that that an RH reading, without a simultaneous temperature reading, is useless. It's like telling someone how much water you have by saying that your bucket is 2/3 full, without telling them how big the bucket is. 5 gallons or 1 gallon? Frank, supposedly, has a big bucket, but I've never seen it, that's just the innuendo on the street.

One corollary to this is to say goodbye to analog RH hydrometers and good riddance. Without a temperature reading, they're as useful as a football bat. I got a nice Elie Bleu humidor as a gift one time, and it had an analog hydrometer in it. I couldn't believe it. I threw it away (the hydrometer, not the humidor). Cheap bastards!

People on the forum often talk about RH without talking about temperature. I think it's because most people are just assuming 70F. (I'm not going to talk about why Americans still use Fahrenheit and the imperial system of measurements. cause, well, 'Merica!)

But small changes in temperature make a big difference in the RH reading. The official fiction is 70Rh at 70F. But I think most people on the forum prefer the RH a little lower. I like my cigars in the 65-70 range at 70F, with 68Rh being about ideal, but tastes vary. You don't need to be anal retentive about it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one to judge a man for retaining whatever he wants in his anus (none of my business), but for humidor purposes, think more about a range of humidity rather than an exact amount. You'll work less and enjoy more. I'm mostly happy with anything between 62 and 72 RH at 70 degrees. With my ideal of 68RH, dropping the temperature from 70 to 67 raises the RH to 75, but it doesn't change the amount of moisture, just the RH. If you didn't know the temperature, and just saw 75RH, you might think it's too high, but it's not. It's perfect.

The simplest and easiest to use online RH converter that I am aware of is at this link.

http://bmcnoldy.rsmas.miami.edu/Humidity.html

Click the "Fahrenheit" button because you're backwards and antiquated like the rest of us. Then enter the temperature and RH from your digital hydrometer, and calculate the dew point. For these purposes, the dew point represents the amount of moisture in your box, so leave that alone. You can then change the temperature and recalculate the RH to see what the RH would be a different temperatures given that amount of moisture. It's easier than I make it sound. Unless you maintain your house at exactly 70F year round, you should be using something like this calculator to know exactly how moist your sticks really are.

If you have any questions about any of this, don't hesitate to PM clintCigar. He's the real resident expert around here on RH and humidifying systems.




You said moist...and you made it sound naughty to have a moist box..Anxious
CheapPrick Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-25-2019
Posts: 535
Thanks LeeBot... I was thinking humi beads would give off the same humidity regardless ... I guess that's why the call it "relative" d'oh!
tonygraz Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
What does it mean when there are clouds and rain in the humidor. What about when it snows ?


What really concerns me is why the relatives are involved.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,588
Snow means your temp is too low. Unless you're killing the beetles
LeeBot Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2020
Posts: 1,920
[quote=tonygraz]What does it mean when there are clouds and rain in the humidor. What about when it snows ?

Snow means you are snorting cocaine off a hookers ass while smoking a cigar, in which case, you da Man!! Applause

Seriously, if there's snow in your humidor, but the bottom is warm, you run a risk of funnel clouds forming. I had that happen back during the humidor blizzard of '08.
clintCigar Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 05-14-2019
Posts: 4,682
I'm relatively new at this and still in training. PMing CelticBomber would be more beneficial.
frankj1 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
it ain't my bucket that's big...

Frankie Tripod




fwiw, I like my cigars stored below 69 F and below 65 RH
CheapPrick Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-25-2019
Posts: 535
Sunoverbeach wrote:
Snow means your temp is too low. Unless you're killing the beetles


No reason to kill the Beatles, half are dead and the other half have their foot in the door.
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 3,945
Pretty good write up my man
gummy jones Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
most find that iceberg lettuce that has been lightly rinsed and shaken but not spun does the best at keeping rock solid humidity
CheapPrick Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-25-2019
Posts: 535
If That's all true about humidity, then why won't my cigars stay lit unless I tilt them forward and let them drain?
Smooth light Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-26-2020
Posts: 3,598
Cause your a 'cheaprick'...
CamoRoon Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-04-2015
Posts: 151
RMAN4443 wrote:
You said moist...and you made it sound naughty to have a moist box..Anxious

I have to wonder why there is an assumption that everyone has their cigars stored in a temperature controlled room or cabinet. For most of the history of cigars, no such things existed, especially for those of limited financial means. That means there was more risk of mold and weevils but that was part of the game. So what is really important, the humidity or the actual amount of water vapor per cubic inch in the humidor. Warmer air can hold more moisture than cold air, which is how condensers and dehumidifiers work. But can a warm cigar hold more moisture than a cold cigar. Well perhaps the tiny air spaces between the layers of leaves can but I think not so with the leaves themselves. So one drop of water converted to vapor in a humidor is still one drop but the RH varies by temperature. That means if my room is 70 degrees my RH should be 70% but if the room is 75 degrees the RH reading should be 59%. To be 70% RH when the temperature is say 80 degrees is way too humid for your cigar. For that matter if you live in a warm humid part of the world, you'll be spending most of your time trying to dehumidify your humidor. That will have to be accomplished by lowering the temperature or removing moisture from the air. This is a topic that I seldom see discussed. CONTROLLING YOUR HUMIDITY WHEN YOU CAN"T CONTROL THE TEMPERATURE.
CamoRoon Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 03-04-2015
Posts: 151
This link shows what I mean. It looks like in order to maintain the same amount of water per volume of air space the RH should go down 2.64% for every degree the temperature goes up and up 2.64% for every degree the temperature goes down. https://vigilantinc.com/humidor-care-humidity-temperature/
Sunoverbeach Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,588
You make a valid point, though I don't store my smokes outdoors, so I do have some control over temperature.
LeeBot Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2020
Posts: 1,920
This is one reason I don't use bovedas. I don't have central air. The temp in my house varies about 10ish degrees between summer and winter. Bovedas keep the rh the same regardless of temperature, so a 65% or 68% boveda will make my stuff too dry in the winter and too moist in the summer.

It's been so humid in Philly lately that I had to put dessicant packs in my boxes. They work pretty well and are an inexpensive solution.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,588
I keep them in the basement where CA and outside temp changes are somewhat mitigated
CamoRoon Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 03-04-2015
Posts: 151
LeeBot wrote:
This is one reason I don't use bovedas. I don't have central air. The temp in my house varies about 10ish degrees between summer and winter. Bovedas keep the rh the same regardless of temperature, so a 65% or 68% boveda will make my stuff too dry in the winter and too moist in the summer.

It's been so humid in Philly lately that I had to put dessicant packs in my boxes. They work pretty well and are an inexpensive solution.


Exactly what I'm talking about. If my room hits 80 degrees and the outside RH is 80%, I need to be removing moisture. The RH number means nothing other than in relation to the temperature. I remember reading an interview with Ian Anderson of the group Jethro Tull. Now he has plenty on money I am sure but he said in Scotland where he lives most people would not consider using air conditioning in their homes. What do you imagine the conditions for storing cigars in Cuba was prior to 1950? Articles always talk about " ideal conditions ". I suspect a great many people cannot maintain ideal conditions so it is worthwhile to know how to adapt to the conditions you are faced with.
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
it's all relative
delta1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,754
uncle
tonygraz Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
I think I have a PSA test coming up next week.
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