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Last post 2 months ago by DrMaddVibe. 479 replies replies.
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DeSantis vs. Disney
DrMaddVibe Offline
#301 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
Speyside2 wrote:
No, I am talking about the Reed Creek District bonds. Desantis says that is Disney's bill, a state commission has been set up to adress this. As fae as I can find the bonds now fo to the 2 counties according to the law. It is an expense over 1B. That needs to play out. In addition the services also must be paid for the ex-district, fire, police, infrastructure and so on. Disney lost, but Florida may also.


https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/01/06/new-details-emerge-in-desantis-disneys-reedy-creek-district-battle/

“My constituents did not like the idea that a California company used their special privileges in order to attack the sovereignty of the state in which they were a guest,” Fine said. “And so they agreed with the idea of not giving Disney special privileges over their competitors, which is what we eliminated last year.”

DeSantis then spent the next few months promising a plan would come to fruition that would not leave Orange and Osceola taxpayers on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars in government spending and debt incurred by the district.



This is a win for the Florida counties and taxpayers. Disney HAD an exemption that I'm quite sure they wish they had taken advantage of to the Inth Degree...and left a lot on the table. Use "Disney Land Holdings" in a G00gl3 search and you'll see they hold vast (and continue to grow as well!) thousands of acres...undeveloped. Now...they will have to go through the permitting process every other entity in the state does and be held accountable for inspections.

I don't understand how you and Robert believe this is a loss for everybody. This is a loss for Disney.

"“The corporate kingdom has come to an end. Under the proposed legislation, Disney will no longer control its own government, will live under the same laws as everyone else, will be responsible for their outstanding debts, and will pay their fair share of taxes. Imposing a state-controlled board will also ensure that Orange County cannot use this issue as a pretext to raise taxes on Orange County residents.” - Taryn Fenske, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' communications director"

PLUS..no DNC to muddy up the waters and push their anti-family/green/woke/CRT agendas. This state legislative branch will stand beside and ensure that the governor will get what's best for it's taxpayers. Don't hate us cuz you ain't us.


Damn, he's going to make a great President some day.
rfenst Offline
#302 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
DrMaddVibe wrote:


I don't understand how you and Robert believe this is a loss for everybody. This is a loss for Disney.


It is a governmental taking from Disney without compensation.

It is a loss for the First Amendment.

It is a disruption and loss for everyone in Central Florida who benefits in any way from Disney's presence as an economic engine, including all of the other amusement parks and businesses.

It is the failure of the state to uphold its end of a contract.

It is the precedent for the loss of corporate/individual real property rights to the state against the U.S. Constitution without eminent domain.

Read the SCOTUS cases on this. Read the Florida Constitution and the Florida Statute on eminent domain that apply to this.

...
Sunoverbeach Offline
#303 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,586
Celtic let you out to play!
rfenst Offline
#304 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
Can't believe it is constitutional for a governor to taking over and having the sole right to appoint the members of a board for private property without eminent domain. This is the taking of Disney's real estate ownership rights without compensation. Like a third world country going communist seizing personal property.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#305 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
Bawhahahhaaaaaa!

Face it Robert...its EXACTLY like my last post.

This is Florida not California. Disney enjoyed an advantage none of their competitors had. Ever. It cost taxpayers revenue and God only knows if what they built was on the up and up because they sanctioned and approved the building of not just motels...water parks...rides...amusement parks and the entire infrastructure. They have simply walked away and left parks and lodging and left them abandoned.

The bill the former CEO railed against NEVER said don't say gay. They made it that way nationally. Its 3 pages of legislation that, to date, you still haven't read because you still oppose it.

They got tooled and are still losing money because they want to promote grooming children and you're opposed to it. What they're doing is obscene and an affront to human decency.
RayR Offline
#306 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
rfenst wrote:
Can't believe it is constitutional for a governor to taking over and having the sole right to appoint the members of a board for private property without eminent domain. This is the taking of Disney's real estate ownership rights without compensation. Like a third world country going communist seizing personal property.


Was it constitutional for the state to give special privileges to Disney to begin with?

I know here in NYS, it is unconstitutional for the State to give gifts to corporations. Not that it ever stopped them from ignoring the state constitution.


HockeyDad Offline
#307 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
Can't believe it is constitutional for a governor to taking over and having the sole right to appoint the members of a board for private property without eminent domain. This is the taking of Disney's real estate ownership rights without compensation. Like a third world country going communist seizing personal property.


Reedy Creek Improvement District is a governmental agency. It is not private property.

Name one square foot of Disney property that was seized.
ZRX1200 Offline
#308 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,476
You guys are so getting blocked…
Abrignac Offline
#309 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
rfenst wrote:
Can't believe it is constitutional for a governor to taking over and having the sole right to appoint the members of a board for private property without eminent domain. This is the taking of Disney's real estate ownership rights without compensation. Like a third world country going communist seizing personal property.


You’re joking right??? Florida seems to have decided that Disney needs to play by the same rules as everyone else. In other words, the Legislature righted a wrong. BTW, the communist comment is ridiculous.

Abrignac Offline
#310 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
rfenst wrote:
It is a governmental taking from Disney without compensation.

It is a loss for the First Amendment.

It is a disruption and loss for everyone in Central Florida who benefits in any way from Disney's presence as an economic engine, including all of the other amusement parks and businesses.

It is the failure of the state to uphold its end of a contract.

It is the precedent for the loss of corporate/individual real property rights to the state against the U.S. Constitution without eminent domain.

Read the SCOTUS cases on this. Read the Florida Constitution and the Florida Statute on eminent domain that apply to this.

...


Loss for the First Amendment? Really? IIRC not all speech is protected. Suppose someone yells fire in a crowded movie theater and in the stampede to get out a few people get trampled to death only to discover there wasn’t a fire or even any smoke. It was just someone being an azzhole because the wanted a better seat. I wonder how the free speech argument is going to work for them at trial?

In other words, when you enjoy special arrangements it behooves you to keep your mouth shut and stay under the radar lest you pizz off the wrong people and lose your special privileges.
rfenst Offline
#311 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
Abrignac wrote:
Loss for the First Amendment? Really? IIRC not all speech is protected. Suppose someone yells fire in a crowded movie theater and in the stampede to get out a few people get trampled to death only to discover there wasn’t a fire or even any smoke. It was just someone being an azzhole because the wanted a better seat. I wonder how the free speech argument is going to work for them at trial?

In other words, when you enjoy special arrangements it behooves you to keep your mouth shut and stay under the radar lest you pizz off the wrong people and lose your special privileges.

Your First Amendment allusion is inapplicable because it references speech that created actual imminent harm leading to death. Who did Disney even imminently or otherwise harm by expressing its position on a social/political issue?

This state made a specific deal with Disney to lure it here and to encourage it to efficiently build, expand and grow it's business and the local economy. What gives the state the right to violate that agreement just because Disney publicly disagreed with the Governor?

Would it have been a better idea for Disney to have never said a thing? Sure, but that isn't what any of this is really about.

Like the thread title says, the Governor got butt-hurt and is whipping-up the entire matter for political theatre. Poor baby.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#312 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
rfenst wrote:
Your First Amendment allusion is inapplicable because it references speech that created actual imminent harm leading to death. Who did Disney even imminently or otherwise harm by expressing its position on a social/political issue?

This state made a specific deal with Disney to lure it here and to encourage it to efficiently build, expand and grow it's business and the local economy. What gives the state the right to violate that agreement just because Disney publicly disagreed with the Governor?

Would it have been a better idea for Disney to have never said a thing? Sure, but that isn't what any of this is really about.

Like the thread title says, the Governor got butt-hurt and is whipping-up the entire matter for political theatre. Poor baby.



This thread...and this thread...

http://www.cigarbid.com/Forum/c/posts/667527/Disney-CEO-Bob-Chapek-

you're conveniently forgetting that the former (Thank God!) CEO of the company that bills itself as the happiest (not gayest!) place on Earth vowed to have legislation overturned. Legislation that would forbid the sexual grooming of children from K-3rd grade. Then there's the YouTubes (watch them because they matter!) where department heads are stating they will not only continue with the sexualized content aimed at children but will make it a staple on ALL of their channels and double down on the effort. Is reading that hard for you to do? Are you that entrenched with making children sexual objects that you can't remove yourself from the real harm this could do to them and society?



Disney Officially Loses Control Of Reedy Creek Development In Landslide Florida Senate Vote



Last year Disney waged political war with the state of Florida and Governor Ron DeSantis and has suffered an overwhelming defeat. The company has officially lost control of their Reedy Creek Development - First devised as an unprecedented agreement with Disney to allow it to act unilaterally in business development within the 25,000 acre park with limited government oversight. The decision to dissolve Reedy Creek's original management was finalized after a landslide senate vote this week to appoint a new governing board.

Disney has stated that it does not plan to fight the state ruling in court, probably because they know it is a losing battle. The new entity, dubbed the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District, will be operated by a five-member board appointed by DeSantis and confirmed by the state Senate. The move effectively gives DeSantis power over operations including collecting taxes.

Disney World is set to rely even more on its theme park revenues as its movies and streaming service continue to flounder.

The entertainment behemoth engaged in a fight with the Florida citizenry and DeSantis in early 2022 over Bill HB 1557 (The Parental Rights In Education Bill) which was signed into law last March. The law prevents Florida public schools from targeting young children and teaching gender identity ideology or sexualized propaganda; it also requires that teachers inform parents of their lesson plans and subject matter for Grades K-3.

Florida has been leading the pack in terms of states removing far-left rhetoric from classrooms, including trans propaganda and Critical Race Theory propaganda planted in school textbooks. The concepts, which have no basis in scientific or historic fact, have nonetheless become an epidemic in American education, with many teachers focusing almost solely on social justice ideals rather than basic academics. State opposition is late, but better late than never.

Disney, a major corporate element of Florida's economy, became a vocal opponent of HB 1557, calling it the "don't say gay bill" (it's more accurate to call it the "anti-grooming bill"). Disney sided with leftist activists and promised to use the company's extensive power to force a repeal of the law. CEO Bob Chapek swore fealty to the woke movement in a speech given during an employee conference at the onset of tensions with Florida. Chapek was recently fired and replaced by a returning Bob Iger.


https://youtu.be/Q9BTtzQFBSQ

The problem is that the law is supported by a majority in the Florida government as well as a majority of voters. Floridians voted overwhelmingly to keep DeSantis as governor and conservative candidates dominated in district elections last year.

Leftists argued that HB 1557 was "unconstitutional", but this suggests a considerable lack of understanding. Teachers as employees of the state do not have unfettered free speech rights in the classroom and are required to teach a specific curriculum. Ideological zealotry and sexual propaganda are not a part of that curriculum, and teachers can be punished with the loss of their jobs for ignoring those standards.

This was the norm in education for decades - Only in recent years has it been suggested that teachers paid with tax dollars are somehow immune to oversight. Leftist educators continue to insist that their rights are being violated and that they should be able to teach whatever they want, which apparently includes sharing the sexual details of their personal lives.

Leftists also argue that the actions against Reedy Creek violate Disney's free speech rights. However, they fail to recognize that Disney as a company is not entitled to special treatment from Florida's government. Reedy Creek was a special allowance, a favor to Disney that can just as easily be taken away.

Why Disney chose gender identity politics and sexualized lessons for kindergarten children as the hill to die on is hard to say, but with the loss of Reedy Creek they have learned a valuable lesson. ESG-style corporate governance is now under scrutiny in conservative run states, and payback is a bitch. https://www.zerohedge.com/political/disney-loses-control-reedy-creek-development-landslide-florida-senate-vote



It'll be a cold day in Hell when I grace any Disney park with my presence and my hard earned money. I DGAF how big they are as a corporation. It gives them no right to indoctrinate children to their perverse desires. NONE. If you are really this against what the governor and the state house has done to secure the safety and mental well being then California is where you really should be. That's where Disney calls home. Florida will only continue to become more and more vocal against ills like these. The times changed. Shame you cannot see the difference in what Disney continues to peddle and what we're commanded to do.

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. | Jeremiah 29:11
rfenst Offline
#313 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
More of the same cfrap:

Teacher fired after DeSantis says bookshelf video was ‘fake narrative’

A Florida teacher was fired this week after posting a video of empty bookshelves that Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) called “a fake narrative” at a time when teachers in the state are removing or covering books in public schools to comply with new state laws.

Brian Covey, a substitute teacher at Mandarin Middle School in Jacksonville, posted a video to Twitter last month showing rows of empty bookshelves at the school’s library. Covey is one of several teachers in Duval and Manatee counties who’ve posted photos or videos in recent weeks showing how school districts are responding to new Florida laws regarding books and materials available to children in classrooms and libraries. Duval County Public Schools, the district for Mandarin Middle School, urged educators last month to follow the new laws and “err on the side of caution” to determine whether a book “is developmentally appropriate for student use.”

“They removed every single book from my children’s classrooms …” he wrote on Jan. 27. “I read books about the consequences of this when I was in school ….”



https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/02/18/florida-teacher-empty-school-bookshelves-video-desantis/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F392b622%2F63f251231b79c61f879c4604%2F5fd7dce2ae7e8a2a74990f53%2F37%2F72%2F63f251231b79c61f879c4604&wp_cu=ee8362dd44c71c1069650be903ec90c5%7CB6745352E36A2650E0530100007FB7EF
HockeyDad Offline
#314 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
So the video was fake and the teacher got himself fired.

What an outrage!
RayR Offline
#315 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
Oh No! They removed all the copies of “Gender Queer" from the bookshelves,”? What will the poor chillens do without that grooming material? Eh? Will they only be able to read traditional educational reading material for children that actually educates them and not books that try to indoctrinate them with cultish ideologies and contrived historical narratives from the Church of Wokeness? Oh, The humanity!

Is WAPO trying to perpetuate Brian Covey's hoax that he filmed and posted of random empty bookshelves?
DeSantis was right when he said, “What they’re trying to do is they’re trying to act like somehow we don’t want books.”
It's like DeSantis is channeling the spirit of Bastiat.

“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”
― Frederic Bastiat, The Law
rfenst Offline
#316 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
HockeyDad wrote:
So the video was fake and the teacher got himself fired.

What an outrage!

Wrong.

It was a true and accurate photo of shelves that had been emptied by the school library where he worked. He had also just advocated strongly in opposition to the state banning school books about Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron.

That is why the state made sure he was fired quickly- for using his cellphone to take the pic. Give me a break.

What should be done is that pornographic books should be banned (there probably aren't any). Other books on the banned list should still be available, but with parental authorization.
RayR Offline
#317 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
No...HD is right, the video is a fake out. Deceiver...eeee by a conniving trickster.
A "true and accurate photo of shelves", but only empty ones in a library full of shelves with books on them.
Why were those shelves empty? Were they cleaning and reorganizing or something after reviewing what books passed or failed the new state requirements?

"The viral video you are sharing shows less than half the story. Yes, those shelves were empty. But they were in a room full of books. See the video below for the full story."

https://twitter.com/DuvalSchools/status/1626693916165656582

An explanation by those in the school district close to the matter is in order...

Facts about library books in Duval County Public Schools

Tracy Pierce and Laureen Ricks / February 17, 2023 / District

Quote:
Feb. 17, 2023 – Books about Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron from the Essential Voices collection are among approximately 6,000 books that have been reviewed and approved currently through the new state-required book review process.

This review process and the status of library books were the subject of conversation and misinformation that appeared in media and social media over the last few weeks.

More...

https://www.teamduval.org/2023/02/17/facts-about-library-books-in-duval-county-public-schools/
HockeyDad Offline
#318 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
Wrong.

It was a true and accurate photo of shelves that had been emptied by the school library where he worked. He had also just advocated strongly in opposition to the state banning school books about Roberto Clemente and Hank Aaron.

That is why the state made sure he was fired quickly- for using his cellphone to take the pic. Give me a break.

What should be done is that pornographic books should be banned (there probably aren't any). Other books on the banned list should still be available, but with parental authorization.



Nope, it was a fake. At some point you have to ask yourself why we are in such a hurry to teach second graders about trans sexuality.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#319 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
And the once mighty Mouse House is offended how now???
MACS Offline
#320 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,593
I live in Duval County... but I have not been following the story, so I think the CBid rule of proximity does not apply here.

In any case... looks like the "teacher" was trying to sell a false narrative. That should get you fired.
rfenst Offline
#321 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
HockeyDad wrote:
Nope, it was a fake. At some point you have to ask yourself why we are in such a hurry to teach second graders about trans sexuality.

You are playing "Captain Obvious" asserting that 2nd graders shouldn't be taught about trisexuality in the classroom, just like Playboy and Hustler don't belong in a public school library. But, I'll still award you points for the effort.

The photo of the shelves is accurate. They were emptied in fear of violating the state's chilling new law.

This is a freedom of speech issue- at the very least.

It's akin to book burning- at its worst.
HockeyDad Offline
#322 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
You are playing "Captain Obvious" asserting that 2nd graders shouldn't be taught about trisexuality in the classroom, just like Playboy and Hustler don't belong in a public school library. But, I'll still award you points for the effort.

The photo of the shelves is accurate. They were emptied in fear of violating the state's chilling new law.

This is a freedom of speech issue- at the very least.

It's akin to book burning- at its worst.


Captain Obvious? Don’t you recall what this entire thread is about? Don’t say gay.

If it’s a freedom of speech issue or akin to book burning then Playboy and Hustler do belong in the school library. Straddling the fence post doesn’t really work.


“In discussion between the district and ESS regarding this individual’s misrepresentation of the books available to students in the school’s library and the disruption this misrepresentation has caused, it was determined that he had violated social media and cell phone policies of his employer. Therefore, ESS determined these policy violations made it necessary to part ways with this individual,”

RayR Offline
#323 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
rfenst wrote:
You are playing "Captain Obvious" asserting that 2nd graders shouldn't be taught about trisexuality in the classroom, just like Playboy and Hustler don't belong in a public school library. But, I'll still award you points for the effort.

The photo of the shelves is accurate. They were emptied in fear of violating the state's chilling new law.

This is a freedom of speech issue- at the very least.

It's akin to book burning- at its worst.


A bit hyperbolic, ain't ya Robert? "the state's chilling new law", "It's akin to book burning- at its worst"

BOOK NAZIS! LOL

You've even surmised that the shelves were emptied out of fear? Must have been a whole lot of suspected WOKE PORNO BOOKS on those shelves. Eh?

No concern that parents weren't even told that the libraries were being stocked with WOKE INDOCTRINATION material? Shouldn't they know why and what nefarious characters are trying to contort the minds of their children on their dime?
And you call this a "freedom of speech issue"?


87% of Books Removed From Florida Schools Were Pornographic, Violent, Inappropriate, Data Shows

Mary Margaret Olohan / @MaryMargOlohan / February 15, 2023

Editor’s note: Some of the images in this article are graphic.

Quote:
An overwhelming majority of books removed from Florida schools since the beginning of the academic year in September 2022 were pornographic, violent, or inappropriate for students’ grade levels, according to school district data submitted to the state’s Department of Education.

Twenty-three out of 56 school districts reported that they had removed a total of 175 books, while 33 districts (59%) said that they had not removed any books this academic year, according to data reviewed by The Daily Signal.

The data reveals that 164 of the 175 removed books were taken out of school media centers, rather than classrooms, and 153 of the books that were removed (87%) were taken out because the district discovered that the book was “pornographic, violent or inappropriate for the grade level for some other reason.”

More...

https://www.dailysignal.com/2023/02/15/87-books-removed-florida-schools-pornographic-violent-inappropriate-data-shows/



rfenst Offline
#324 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
HockeyDad wrote:
Captain Obvious? Don’t you recall what this entire thread is about? Don’t say gay.

If it’s a freedom of speech issue or akin to book burning then Playboy and Hustler do belong in the school library. Straddling the fence post doesn’t really work.


“In discussion between the district and ESS regarding this individual’s misrepresentation of the books available to students in the school’s library and the disruption this misrepresentation has caused, it was determined that he had violated social media and cell phone policies of his employer. Therefore, ESS determined these policy violations made it necessary to part ways with this individual,”


Stradling the fence on that one? No. Playboy and Hustler, although legal, are pornography in thee eyes of a K-12 student, plain and simple, and should never be made available to student through schools or with public money. I am sure you agree with that.

He probably did use his cell phone and that was probably against the rules. I am not complaining about him being fired if that is how it (most likely) went down. But, do you really think if he had posted the picture with the caption: "Thank God those DANGEROUS books were finally removed from the middle school library thanks to Gov. Desantis and the state legislature!" that he would have been fired?

I bet not. And, that would lead one to the conclusion that the cellphone photo was not the real issue in the matter. It was the content of his speech and crossing paths with a power-grabbing governor's public persona. Plain and simple.

When people cannot speak their minds and express their thoughts (not talking about state employees on the job), or when kids can't learn new things from reading books their parents approve of that cannot harm anyone, we have a serious problem that will easily ruin our culture and American society in short time.

Take a look at the lists of newly removed and banned books. WAY too many for my liking.
RayR Offline
#325 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
Is this one of those "book burning" lists you speak of?
I can't say there is anything there that has been on my radar, that could be construed as must-read educational material.

Here’s a list of books banned, under review in Central Florida schools

Samantha Dunne, Digital Journalist
Published: February 7, 2023 at 4:30 PM
Updated: February 15, 2023 at 12:24 PM

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2023/02/07/heres-a-list-of-books-banned-under-review-in-central-florida-schools/

HockeyDad Offline
#326 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
Stradling the fence on that one? No. Playboy and Hustler, although legal, are pornography in thee eyes of a K-12 student, plain and simple, and should never be made available to student through schools or with public money. I am sure you agree with that.

He probably did use his cell phone and that was probably against the rules. I am not complaining about him being fired if that is how it (most likely) went down. But, do you really think if he had posted the picture with the caption: "Thank God those DANGEROUS books were finally removed from the middle school library thanks to Gov. Desantis and the state legislature!" that he would have been fired?

I bet not. And, that would lead one to the conclusion that the cellphone photo was not the real issue in the matter. It was the content of his speech and crossing paths with a power-grabbing governor's public persona. Plain and simple.

When people cannot speak their minds and express their thoughts (not talking about state employees on the job), or when kids can't learn new things from reading books their parents approve of that cannot harm anyone, we have a serious problem that will easily ruin our culture and American society in short time.

Take a look at the lists of newly removed and banned books. WAY too many for my liking.



I’m glad to see you calming down from that “hair on fire” cliff you were in with that freedom of speech issue and book burning panic.

Now you ok with the firing based on the school board statement and you’re ok with banning some books but it was just way too much.

People can speak their minds and express their thoughts. We have already established that the DNC, government agencies, and big tech social media will verify and validate those thoughts.

You’re worried that kids can't learn new things from reading books their parents approve of that cannot harm anyone but can you ever recall approving books? The school knows what is best for our children and are better at parenting than we are. Parents are not asked to approve books.

Our culture is fine. We encourage parents to fly their children to California where they can get mastectomies, hysterectomies, or have their wieners removed….all before puberty!
rfenst Offline
#327 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
HockeyDad wrote:
I’m glad to see you calming down from that “hair on fire” cliff you were in with that freedom of speech issue and book burning panic.

Now you ok with the firing based on the school board statement and you’re ok with banning some books but it was just way too much.

People can speak their minds and express their thoughts. We have already established that the DNC, government agencies, and big tech social media will verify and validate those thoughts.

You’re worried that kids can't learn new things from reading books their parents approve of that cannot harm anyone but can you ever recall approving books? The school knows what is best for our children and are better at parenting than we are. Parents are not asked to approve books.

Our culture is fine. We encourage parents to fly their children to California where they can get mastectomies, hysterectomies, or have their wieners removed….all before puberty!

I have no problem with anyone (especially any government entity) firing a low level employee for so publicly speaking their mind to the contrary on an issue- that isn't causing imminent serious harm or damage.

My mom, who was PTA president, says there were not politicized groups of parents submitting drooled-on lists of books calling for bans. Occasionally, she says, there would be a complaint and then that book would then require parental permission for all students ahead of time. In fact, I remember having to get my parents to sign-off on some books, one of which was "Where the Wild Things Are", before I could get it. I am sure the books in my k-6 library had to pass professionals' muster as well as that of the librarian at our school. And, the governor and legislature were not involved. The county school board made that local decision for our county school system.

This whole book banning/changing has gotten way out of hand and needs to be reeled in on both sides. I just think the conservative groups are going WAY too far and are rejecting some true realities.


RayR Offline
#328 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
I don't think those risqué titles of your childhood like "Where the Wild Things Are" compares with the LGBQ+XYZ*2 grooming instruction manuals like:

“It’s Perfectly Normal.”
"Let's Talk About It"
“This Book is Gay”

https://twitter.com/JeremyRedfernFL/status/1625597286129491968?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#329 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
DeSantis Signs Bill Killing Disney World's "Corporate Kingdom"



Florida Governor Ron DeSantis on Monday signed a bill that takes control of a special tax district surrounding Walt Disney World that, as Reuters reports, for half a century allowed Walt Disney Co. to operate with an almost unprecedentedly high degree of autonomy.

The legislation, titled HB 9-B, ends Disney’s self-governing status, establishes a new state-controlled district and imposes a five-member state control board, which is appointed by the governor.


The board will also be confirmed by the state Senate.

“Today is the day the corporate kingdom finally comes to an end,” DeSantis said.

https://tinyurl.com/dztpz2vf

The Republican governor said during the announcement this morning that:

"Allowing a corporation to control its own government is bad policy, especially when the corporation makes decisions that impact an entire region."

The law also ends Disney's exemption from state regulatory reviews and codes and it ensures "that Disney will pay its fair share of taxes," DeSantis' office said.

DeSantis' actions come after Disney's advocacy against Florida's Parental Rights in Education bill (the so-called "Don't say gay bill").

As The Epoch Times' Dan Berger reports, DeSantis and other speakers who joined him at the podium reviewed a wide range of issues tied into the tussle with the big entertainment company.

Nick Catarano, a long-time and second-generation Disney employee—his uncle went to work there when the park opened in the 1970s—outlined the company’s firing and harassment of employees like himself who didn’t want to get COVID shots or wear masks. He also spoke of his dismay at the shift in Disney’s once-family-friendly content, one that made him proud, to one many families object to.

“Disney has since doubled down and embraced all things woke increasingly making things like sex, gender, race and worse things the core mission of its storytelling. You know, we’ve gone from ‘Cinderella’ and ‘Snow White’ and ‘Pocahontas’ and all these great stories with morals and great characters, and have brought us stuff like ‘Little Demon’ who was the spawn, the child of Satan, as the lead character.”

“We have recently seen the cartoon ‘Proud Family’ on Disney Plus. And that really doesn’t tell the whole truth of what happened in our country. They tried to build a narrative that everything in this country is built on the back of slaves and reparations. And what they’re doing is they’re taking vulnerable children, and they’re indoctrinating them into becoming activists and hating each other.”

Disney has said it won’t resist the new arrangement and will now work with the state, Disney World CEO Jeff Vahle said in a statement.


=d> =d> =d>
rfenst Offline
#330 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
What other privately owned business that owns its own land for operations and development is subject to the state appointing the members of it's property ownership board? So much for fee simple absolute land ownership and imminent domain- without due process or constitutional compensation.
RayR Offline
#331 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
I think Judge Nap explained it best 10 months ago.

The Problems With Disney and Florida

By Andrew P. Napolitano
April 28, 2022

Quote:
The core of the problems with Disney and Florida is the American addiction to corporatism. This is the use of government power for the benefit of the government’s patrons. Stated differently, it is a symbiotic relationship between the government and a private business that gives government officials corporate largesse and the private business a near monopoly. It is capturing the power of the state to increase private wealth at the expense of others.

Corporatism is immoral because it bribes the state to give government power to a patron. It is economically counterproductive because it stifles competition. It is unconstitutional because it violates equal protection and, in the Florida dispute with Disney, free speech.

In the 1960s, when Walt Disney came upon 25,000 acres of land outside Orlando, Florida, for his theme park, he crafted a deal with the state that gave his company extraordinary control over the land in return for building the park. For Florida, it was a win in terms of tourism dollars and employment opportunities. For Disney, it was a win in terms of relief from local regulatory constraints and certain state and local taxes.

More...

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/04/andrew-p-napolitano/the-problems-with-disney-and-florida/
HockeyDad Offline
#332 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
What other privately owned business that owns its own land for operations and development is subject to the state appointing the members of it's property ownership board? So much for fee simple absolute land ownership and imminent domain- without due process or constitutional compensation.


None.

It is not a property ownership board. You act like Florida seized an HOA. You either honestly do not understand what RCID is or you’re being dishonest.

Reedy Creek Improvement District is a government and a former client of mine.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#333 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
HockeyDad wrote:
None.

It is not a property ownership board. You act like Florida seized an HOA. You either honestly do not understand what RCID is or you’re being dishonest.

Reedy Creek Improvement District is a government and a former client of mine.



He's pissy because he drank the NYT Kool-Aid and they were DEAD WRONG.

He STILL stands up for Disney grooming K-3rd graders too.

Let him cry all he wants, doesn't mean a damned thing.
rfenst Offline
#334 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
Vengeful Ron transforms the happiest place on earth

South Florida Sun Sentinel

Hopefully, Florida’s super decider of moral rightness will finally put a stop to deviant old Donald traipsing about with no pants.

No, not that deviant old Donald, though the gov intends to get rid of him too. It’s the other Donald and all his pervy Disney cohorts who have piqued the governor’s ire.

For 89 years, Donald Duck has been depicted naked below the waist. In all that time, no politician has had the courage to challenge the debauched Mickey Mouse industrial complex.

But, as Ron DeSantis warned the Walt Disney Company on Monday, “There’s a new sheriff in town.”

Think “High Noon,” “Rio Bravo.” Better yet, “Blazing Saddles.” When our badass sheriff moseys down Main Street U.S.A., Floridians can be confident that Sleeping Beauty will never be woke. Liberals won’t be telling Cruella De Vil she can’t wear fur. No one’s gonna warn Buzz Lightyear he can’t pack heat without a license.

The new sheriff won’t let the EPA classify the Little Mermaid as an endangered species. Superheroes won’t be running around the amusement park in girlie tights. Sheriff Ron’s gonna keep Captain Hook out of handicapped parking. He’ll relegate “Black Panther” to the back of the monorail.

DeSantis traveled to Lake Buena Vista Monday, the very belly of the beast, to sign legislation that punishes Disney for criticizing his signature “don’t say gay” law.

The how-dare-you-question-me statute authorized the governor to seize control of the Reedy Creek Improvement District, which the Legislature created back in 1967 to allow Disney to self-govern 40 square miles southwest of Orlando.

All five members of the Reedy Creek board had been appointed by the Disney Company. It was always an extraordinary deal, but the Legislature happily tolerated the special arrangement until last year, when Disney dared to trash “don’t say gay.”

DeSantis, always eager for a tussle, shifted into outrage mode. Republican legislators were forced to choose between the state’s most important corporate entity or a cultural warrior known for his ear-biting, eye-gouging, groin-kicking, Fox News-pleasing politics.

Easy choice in Florida. The lawmakers went after Disney, passing legislation that replaced the Reedy Creek board with the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District, a misleading name given that its sole agenda is to remind Disney that Sheriff Ron is itching for a showdown (preferably before the 2024 presidential primaries).

DeSantis chose five rightwing toadies for his wild ride, including the chairman of a Christian nationalist ministry and a founder of the book-banning Moms for Liberty. It’s the kind of oversight board that could reduce Snow White to a cowering snowflake and suggest that there’s something unseemly about her non-traditional relationship with seven, diminutive housemates.

Despite the anti-Disney bombast voiced at Lake Buena Vista, the new arrangement is not quite as drastic as it might have been. After an ill-conceived attempt by the Legislature last year to bomb Reedy Creek out of existence (metaphorically), the 2023 revision allows Disney to retain its special tax status. The company continues to fund its own government services and, unless the board decides to meddle, develop new projects without the local city or county government approval required of other businesses.

But Monday’s bill-signing ceremony came with a threatening subtext: If Disney entertainment or corporate policies succumb to “woke ideology,” the governor’s board will turn the happiest place on earth into a misnomer.

It sounded like a warning when DeSantis said, “All of these board members very much would like to see the type of entertainment that all families can appreciate.” Don’t confuse “all families” with all kinds of families.

DeSantis and his Fox News cheerleaders were already irked with Disney for mandating masks and vaccines during the pandemic. But criticism of “don’t say gay” was tantamount to blasphemy.

DeSantis fired out a mass fundraising email declaring that “Woke Disney” had “lost any moral authority to tell you what to do.”

Fox’s Laura Ingraham said Disney should change Splash Mountain to Sex Mountain.

There’s an easy way for Disney to appease DeSantis and his lackies on the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District. The company could simply purchase, for a hefty sum, movie rights to DeSantis’ new book, “The Courage to be Free.”

(The studio adaptation might need to liven up a tome the New York Times said, “Reads like a politician’s memoir churned out by ChatGPT,” and the Guardian called “a mirthless read.”)

Disney already has the perfect leading man on hand, a longtime star in need of a meaty part. (What could be meatier than playing the governor Donald Trump has dubbed “Meatball Ron”?)

Of course, the DeSantis oversight board won’t approve a movie deal unless Donald wears pants.





If you thin I approve of grooming of k-3 graders, you are stupid. This is a property right/corporate control issue now. You need to get that...
RayR Offline
#335 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
rfenst wrote:
[b][size=8]If you thin I approve of grooming of k-3 graders, you are stupid. This is a property right/corporate control issue now. You need to get that...


How about grooming 4-7 graders? Are you into that?
Would that make it the "Happiest Place on Earth"?
If grooming is a mainstay of their desired business model, they would deserve to fail in free market conditions because I don't think they would be serving the desires of their customers which would be family entertainment in this case. That's a capitalist thing, providing stuff the consumer wants at a price they can afford.
I don't think paying for iideological indoctrination into this or that sexual perversion fits the bill for what most people want from a family theme park.

But free-market capitalism is not what many corporations seem to want, it's a story that's old as the hills. Like the kingdoms of old where the King or Queen handed out special favors to their faithful vassals, today they want that modern version, the corporatist model, that "extraordinary deal" that gives them an advantage over the schmucks that won't get any kind of special privileges because they aren't that useful to the political regime in power or are not willing to play ball with depraved pols who want some level of control over them. With any luck these corporatists will even get the feckeless taxpayers to subsidize their business model with CASH.

Really, these hyperbolic op-eds by LEFTY crazy people are fun to read if only to remind me how unhinged LEFTIES truly are.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#336 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,301
rfenst wrote:
If you thin I approve of grooming of k-3 graders, you are stupid. This is a property right/corporate control issue now. You need to get that...



Well, you carrying water as you have on this and other threads for a California HQ company that clearly stated they were going to double down on their grooming and meddle in Florida politics isn't proof of whatever you oppose...I don't know what is.

Disney has stated they're not fighting the state's decision but here you are...once again trying to deflect their corporate intentions on this state and its citizens.

What you need to get is that you're on the wrong side of a wrong issue peddling DNC talking points...AGAIN.
rfenst Offline
#337 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
They haven't sued for now as they probably have 4-5 years to do so. Just wait until the new "Board" interferes with a land sale, lease or attempt to pledge the land as security for an operating or expansion loan.

So, for now Disney will play the corporate game of restarting their huge donations to Desantis and members of the legislature who currently oppose them as well as PACs. Politicians' minds will change when the impact of this becomes apparent and damage to Disney is done.

Then later on, Disney will eventually get control of their land back, even if a new state-government county is created or it is split between the two counties it occupies.

Government control of private property, zoning and building codes and the like excepted, is not the American version of capitalism I beliive in. It is the government control of operations/means of production.

And, you need to take a good look at the "qualifications" those being appointed to the "Board of Directors" of the land. It is a capitalistic joke.

If there was to be any fairness(?)/equality in this, then the state needs to take over Universal's, Sea World's, Busch Garden's and other entertainment parks' land.
RayR Offline
#338 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,796
There is no definable American version of capitalism, certainly not for the mess that exists now. There is only one true capitalist system—free market capitalism based first on private property and private control.
Second, a real capitalist system is a true democracy based on peaceful voluntary exchange, not a duhmacracy as with the degenerate political world as it is which is based on compulsion and plunder. Tom Woods explains the principle of a free market economy short and sweet in this 1 min. clip .https://youtu.be/2BHeyXNiOjg

As Von Mises put it, "The capitalist system of production is an economic democracy in which every penny gives a right to vote. The consumers are the sovereign people. The capitalists, the entrepreneurs, and the farmers are the people’s mandatories. If they do not obey, if they fail to produce, at the lowest possible cost, what the consumers are asking for, they lose their office. Their task is service to the consumer. Profit and loss are the instruments by means of which the consumers keep a tight rein on all business activities."

Any corruption of free market capitalism through government intervention (of which there is much today) is not capitalism at all, no matter what idjuts say.
Some Americans might say they believe in capitalism, but then they might truly be an advocate for fascism (corporatism), or the parent from which it sprang, socialism.






HockeyDad Offline
#339 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
They haven't sued for now as they probably have 4-5 years to do so. Just wait until the new "Board" interferes with a land sale, lease or attempt to pledge the land as security for an operating or expansion loan.

So, for now Disney will play the corporate game of restarting their huge donations to Desantis and members of the legislature who currently oppose them as well as PACs. Politicians' minds will change when the impact of this becomes apparent and damage to Disney is done.

Then later on, Disney will eventually get control of their land back, even if a new state-government county is created or it is split between the two counties it occupies.

Government control of private property, zoning and building codes and the like excepted, is not the American version of capitalism I beliive in. It is the government control of operations/means of production.

And, you need to take a good look at the "qualifications" those being appointed to the "Board of Directors" of the land. It is a capitalistic joke.

If there was to be any fairness(?)/equality in this, then the state needs to take over Universal's, Sea World's, Busch Garden's and other entertainment parks' land.



You really don’t understand what Reedy Creek Improvement District is!

Means of production…jeeez.

I heard DeSantis just ordered Magic Kingdom ticket prices be cut by 50%, he ordered the complete razing of EPCOT, and he’s making Snow White turn tricks on Orange Blossom Trail!

drglnc Offline
#340 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 680
But, Is the Tap Water safe to drink?
RiverRatRuss Offline
#341 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
drglnc wrote:
But, Is the Tap Water safe to drink?


Don't think so, seems to be polluted with Fairy Dust!!! went to Disney twice in my life, took my family there in the mid 80's and it was full of fairy's... went again in 2000 as I was passing through the area and once again it was full of Fairies!! d'oh! d'oh! Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall
rfenst Offline
#342 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
HockeyDad wrote:
You really don’t understand what Reedy Creek Improvement District is!

Means of production…jeeez.

I heard DeSantis just ordered Magic Kingdom ticket prices be cut by 50%, he ordered the complete razing of EPCOT, and he’s making Snow White turn tricks on Orange Blossom Trail!


Yeah, and they want to borrow money for improvements, but lenders won't allow it to pledge its land as security for the loan it wants because Disney doesn't have full ownership/control of its own land any more. This is the economic engine of all of Central Florida and the largest employer in the state. We shouldn't F with a good thing.

drglnc Offline
#343 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 680
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Don't think so, seems to be polluted with Fairy Dust!!! went to Disney twice in my life, took my family there in the mid 80's and it was full of fairy's... went again in 2000 as I was passing through the area and once again it was full of Fairies!! d'oh! d'oh! Brick wall Brick wall Brick wall



I see what you did there... d'oh!
RiverRatRuss Offline
#344 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
drglnc wrote:
I see what you did there... d'oh!


Anxious Think Whistle Hey $20 Bucks is $20 Bucks... do you know the cost for day passes for Family at Disney?? Anxious Anxious Herfing
rfenst Offline
#345 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Anxious Think Whistle Hey $20 Bucks is $20 Bucks... do you know the cost for day passes for Family at Disney?? Anxious Anxious Herfing

Too much for me!
HockeyDad Offline
#346 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
rfenst wrote:
Yeah, and they want to borrow money for improvements, but lenders won't allow it to pledge its land as security for the loan it wants because Disney doesn't have full ownership/control of its own land any more. This is the economic engine of all of Central Florida and the largest employer in the state. We shouldn't F with a good thing.



So Disney got turned down on a loan because of RCID? That didn’t happen. Disney has $48 billion in debt. Disney doesn’t need to put up Space Mountain as collateral.

Disney has just as much full ownership/control of its land as you do of your land.
HockeyDad Offline
#347 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,065
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Anxious Think :-" Hey $20 Bucks is $20 Bucks... do you know the cost for day passes for Family at Disney?? Anxious Anxious Herfing


$109 to $189 per person depending on the day.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#348 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
HockeyDad wrote:
$109 to $189 per person depending on the day.


RIGHT!!! and I didn't get any discounts wearing my Rainbow Spandex's either!!! Herfing
rfenst Offline
#349 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,100
HockeyDad wrote:
So Disney got turned down on a loan because of RCID? That didn’t happen. Disney has $48 billion in debt. Disney doesn’t need to put up Space Mountain as collateral.

Disney has just as much full ownership/control of its land as you do of your land.

False.

I don't need a politically, state-appointed, board of directors to approve the pledge or sale of my home or other properties. Do you?

Tom, what explanation do you have for changing a constitutional land agreement that has worked well for so many years, besides social politics?
drglnc Offline
#350 Posted:
Joined: 04-01-2019
Posts: 680
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Anxious Think Whistle Hey $20 Bucks is $20 Bucks... do you know the cost for day passes for Family at Disney?? Anxious Anxious Herfing


We always go for multi Day park hopper passes...
5-Day With the Park Hopper Option: $369 plus tax per person so $74 per day (Military retire pricing)


Just purchased for August for a Group of 7...
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