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Last post 13 months ago by Tiver. 76 replies replies.
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Dog Rockets and other yard waste
Abrignac Online
#51 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Tiver wrote:
Thanks. I get the idea.

Let's remember this is a big site along with CI and they sell a lot of cigars. So what's that tell you ? It tells me that a lot of folks aren't smoking "good" cigars. They are smoking OK cigars. Fair enough. I am going to run this thread through its motions with the cigars I have purchased here (possibly some others) and see if a novice can gain some insight about cigar flavor and character from those purchased and from added insight from aficionados who care to add.

Edit: What you have said doesn't come as a surprise to me. When a cigar gets top ratings in a particular year, that same stick might suffer in another year, yet rest on the laurels of a good year. Unless a stick comes with a "vintage", it's just playing off a rating from a good year. Such is marketing and promotion. Of course it may also follow up with successive good years.

And remember.....As a noob I still don't really know what is the difference.


Ratings???

Are you referring to sources such as Cigar Aficionado? They sell advertising and are well know for highly rating some complete turds. The AB Prensado comes to mind.

The brands i mentioned don’t suffer from off years. They are and have been consistent from day one. Also, as Frank said you can add Padron to that list. You can smoke an AF Hemingway Classic each year from a different lot number and I guarantee it will taste the same and burn the same year after year. Same for a Padron and a DPG.

Those brands control everything about production beginning from the time seed is planted until the field is plowed to be reseeded the following season. The also age their own tobacco, roll their own tobacco and age their cigars before they are released to market.
Tiver Online
#52 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
Abrignac wrote:
Ratings???

Are you referring to sources such as Cigar Aficionado? They sell advertising and are well know for highly rating some complete turds. The AB Prensado comes to mind.

The brands i mentioned don’t suffer from off years. They are and have been consistent from day one. Also, as Frank said you can add Padron to that list. You can smoke an AF Hemingway Classic each year from a different lot number and I guarantee it will taste the same and burn the same year after year. Same for a Padron and a DPG.

Those brands control everything about production beginning from the time seed is planted until the field is plowed to be reseeded the following season. The also age their own tobacco, roll their own tobacco and age their cigars before they are released to market.



Ratings are from whatever source. Could be just some youtube creature or web magazine like CA. Just realize a rating doesn't mean much (to me as a noob) aside from some kind of separation.

Aficionado was referring to folks who have a preference and an established palate. Hopefully some of the seasoned posters here on the forum.

The world is full of hype and posing and branding (in this case I mean purely as a marketing tool). I do try to avoid that in most everything I acquire as a consumer. Apparently cigar branding is no exception.

The title to the thread is objectively purposed to dig out what you are posting and I thank you for your thoughts. Maybe a noob could start with higher end sticks and leave all the also-rans behind. I see many posters here appear to accept there is a category of "daily" type smokes even yard 'gars as it were. I am just approaching this as a "walk before I run". Just trying to get through the stumbling phase.
Palama Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,461
Tiver wrote:
Just going by the "views" on the main Cigar Discussion page. 3386 counts as a "few" thousand. I didn't even have to take my shoes off to count that one.


That’s a good one! Applause

I’mma gonna nominate this for POTY consideration!
Tiver Online
#54 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237

Sat down for a winter smoke outdoors this afternoon on this really nice sunny February day. It may well have been 50. Certainly close. I hope the weather was as fine wherever you were.

Hoping I haven't picked up anything dropped from the backside of a pooch. I'm gonna smoke 'em if I got 'em....at least one of each anyhow. This time it's a Ramon Bueso from "The Genesis Project Sampler" 6 pack. The Genesis Habano Robusto. Roughly 2.75/stick FF auction inc ship/tax


TLDR 2/3 down the post for those who don't like to read about noobs trying to legitimize canine feces in the form of cigars.......


To convey a message I have to use words. I will try to use fewer than before..You know, brevity being the soul of wit and all. Samuel Clemens was a cigar smoker. He was witty. He'd punk my ass right back to where I came from. But he's not here.

I have opened a bottle of Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA to go along with this smoke. It was just sitting there waiting. I wasn't looking for any kind of pairing.

Unwrapped and smelled the stick...earthy and a bit on the barnyard side. What would I know, it didn't seem promising
Punched
Cold draw very light sweetness with a little spice
The wrapper seemed to have a little tooth to it, but that's a new thing to me
Lit with a quick dash of pepper and plenty of smoke
Within a half dozen draws pepper takes a back seat and it settles into a fairly pronounced nutty sweet smoke and the sweetness lingers well after the puff is released. Retrohale is a bit peppery and dissipates almost immediately
Through the first third and at the half, the nutty sweetness (cashew) in the middle of my mouth is the primary flavor
The ash held to a bit better than 1-1/2"
All along I've been enjoying the Dogfish Head. An interesting combination. The ale cleanses the palate with its smooth and bitter hop profile, but the sweetness of the smoke quite easily holds its own. The cleanse did help keep the flavor of the smoke "fresh"

I sat facing the late afternoon sun into the last third. I took some successive light puffs prior to some fuller ones and noticed the cigar had an mild aroma like baking chocolate. Time was running out. Ten or so puffs into the last 1/3 I relinquished the burn dare I get too hot and ruin the whole smoke.

Nice wrapper. Binder had some minor bumps. Smoking slow and cool the predominant flavor was mild sweet cashew with white piper in the background. Required no maintenance or touch ups during the burn.

TLDR:
Earth and Barnyard pre light turned into a nutty sweet smoke for the duration
Decent build


OK....noob learned
1) there was an underlying real sweetness to this smoke. I am not thinking this would be classified as a really good smoke so I am encouraged to believe there is a genuine smoke attribute one would call "sweet". I once read someone describe a smoke like it was a liquid. Like they were drinking it. I assume that's at least a little over the top but interesting. If this one was a turd I look forward to the magic elixir.

B) Pre light wrapper taste and as smoking continued.....probably some oils transferred to my lips. It had a feel and a taste and I tried to look up what this might be called. I round-a-bout came to the conclusion that this transfer is the result of an attribute in the wrapper known as "toothy"....oil glands in the leaf. Does that sound right ?




So much for brevity d'oh!
Ram27 Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 04-30-2005
Posts: 48,922
Brick wall
tonygraz Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
Well Tiver, you got better than I from new Buesos., so maybe you got lucky. I consider them to be a decent yard gar. Several years ago they were quite good with 3-5 years of aging, but they have gone downhill since then becoming a decent yard gar. I will still buy some if the price is around $1 each, but they go in the yard gar humidor primarily. You will find better cigars in your journey. Most of my current stock is around 2 years old, so there is still a chance for them to get better.
Tiver Online
#57 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
Thanks Tony. As I come form essentially zero experience, I fully expect my observations to evolve. I am sure there are much, much better offerings to come. This last smoke was a bit of a ground breaker for me, but I have no illusions that it was grand.

I would love to have someone say, "try this cigar, it does things similar the one you smoked only it does them much better"
Jakethesnake86 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 12-29-2020
Posts: 3,942
Tiber try a Jamie Garcia it does things similar to the one you smoked only it does them much better
LeeBot Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2020
Posts: 1,919
+1
frankj1 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,211
Tiver wrote:
Thanks Tony. As I come form essentially zero experience, I fully expect my observations to evolve. I am sure there are much, much better offerings to come. This last smoke was a bit of a ground breaker for me, but I have no illusions that it was grand.

I would love to have someone say, "try this cigar, it does things similar the one you smoked only it does them much better"

I may have posted this recently elsewhere in response to you...looks like you get it...

by that I mean you're looking at how this works and evolves correctly, but what do I know? HA!

As for the Bueso Genesis Project, the first release was a great value. Terrific cigars for affordable prices. But like so many others, that initial quality did not last and I haven't smoked one in several years...but you should smoke the chit outta them until that day arrives when you find them not an enjoyable way to invest your down time...and as far as I can tell, you are smoking when the time allows you to leave the real world and focus on the cigar.

That's the magic. Enjoy the journey.

Tiver Online
#61 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
@Jakethesnake86 Thanks, I will look around at some Jaime Garcia


@frankj1 Thanks for the thoughts. Consistency will be an attribute I will try not to overlook.


Hopefully I am not sitting on a trove of turds.
Mraia Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 04-18-2019
Posts: 420
Tiver wrote:
@Jakethesnake86 Thanks, I will look around at some Jaime Garcia


@frankj1 Thanks for the thoughts. Consistency will be an attribute I will try not to overlook.


Hopefully I am not sitting on a trove of turds.


I dont think you are. And if you are, so be it. I guess you gotta smoke some turds to know when your smoking something Non-Turdish.

that being said, I am really enjoying your observations here. You seem to have "gotten" it far quicker than I ever did, and probably still dont have. I have not really had a cigar that I would call a Turd, other than a CAO Moontrance which thought was awful. Man O War's, Ave Marias, Cohibas, Acid Kuba Kubas (rarely, I admit), AB's etc all taste good to me. I enjoy them a bit more than some of the supposedly higher end smokes Im getting into now (LFD, My Fathers, etc).

As you've heard a thousand times here, taste is subjective. Maybe not around here sometimes, but we all know it really is. Some of the guidance that comes from guys like Palama is so helpful, we should be paying him!

So just enjoy, and definitely keep a journal of what your smoking. I just started doing this, and while it may seem a bit childish, its hugely helpful.

Carry on, sir.
Tiver Online
#63 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
Coming off smoking a cigar (Genesis Habano) that was to me an invitation to explore more, I chose to go backward a little. I decided to see how what I thought was a very plain but acceptable stick would come across.

Turd incoming? Think

5 Vegas Classic robusto
The stick looks decent
punched
pre light a little earthy and a little woody
first 1/3 a bit like cardboard
burn and draw were steady
I gave it a go a little bit into the second third, holding out for some kind of flavor profile. I couldn't do it any further and gave it up

I have puffed a few of these over the past three years. Always in a very casual way. Usually with a beer or a red wine or Scotch or Bourbon. The cigar flavor never got in the way because I wasn't looking at it at all. Just something to puff on while drinking. I can't see these ever making the cut again.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,586
Nailed it! ThumpUp
KingoftheCove Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2011
Posts: 7,600
Tiver wrote:


Turd incoming? Think

5 Vegas Classic robusto. I can't see these ever making the cut again.


Wheel would have been proud of you…
Tiver Online
#66 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
Pulled out an Oliva Serie O robusto

Was having good expectations.

Mild cedar and pepper.

Fired it up and never got past cedar and pepper.

Didn't love the burn. Fairly dark ash.

Kept cleansing the palate with cold water so I would give it its best shot to shine.

Just couldn't get more than I got from the start. I was hoping for something a little fuller. Something that was bigger than cedar and pepper.

This cigar was crying for something to pair with and get the taste buds dancing. It wasn't getting there on its own.

I have a couple fivers. I'll wait a while for another and let them even out in the humi....it seemed perhaps on the dry side...or maybe that's just the profile of this cigar? I read more than a couple good words about it so either it needed an RH adjustment or it's just not a smoke I will like.

Abrignac Online
#67 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Tiver wrote:
Sat down for a winter smoke outdoors this afternoon on this really nice sunny February day. It may well have been 50. Certainly close. I hope the weather was as fine wherever you were.

Hoping I haven't picked up anything dropped from the backside of a pooch. I'm gonna smoke 'em if I got 'em....at least one of each anyhow. This time it's a Ramon Bueso from "The Genesis Project Sampler" 6 pack. The Genesis Habano Robusto. Roughly 2.75/stick FF auction inc ship/tax


TLDR 2/3 down the post for those who don't like to read about noobs trying to legitimize canine feces in the form of cigars.......


To convey a message I have to use words. I will try to use fewer than before..You know, brevity being the soul of wit and all. Samuel Clemens was a cigar smoker. He was witty. He'd punk my ass right back to where I came from. But he's not here.

I have opened a bottle of Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA to go along with this smoke. It was just sitting there waiting. I wasn't looking for any kind of pairing.

Unwrapped and smelled the stick...earthy and a bit on the barnyard side. What would I know, it didn't seem promising
Punched
Cold draw very light sweetness with a little spice
The wrapper seemed to have a little tooth to it, but that's a new thing to me
Lit with a quick dash of pepper and plenty of smoke
Within a half dozen draws pepper takes a back seat and it settles into a fairly pronounced nutty sweet smoke and the sweetness lingers well after the puff is released. Retrohale is a bit peppery and dissipates almost immediately
Through the first third and at the half, the nutty sweetness (cashew) in the middle of my mouth is the primary flavor
The ash held to a bit better than 1-1/2"
All along I've been enjoying the Dogfish Head. An interesting combination. The ale cleanses the palate with its smooth and bitter hop profile, but the sweetness of the smoke quite easily holds its own. The cleanse did help keep the flavor of the smoke "fresh"

I sat facing the late afternoon sun into the last third. I took some successive light puffs prior to some fuller ones and noticed the cigar had an mild aroma like baking chocolate. Time was running out. Ten or so puffs into the last 1/3 I relinquished the burn dare I get too hot and ruin the whole smoke.

Nice wrapper. Binder had some minor bumps. Smoking slow and cool the predominant flavor was mild sweet cashew with white piper in the background. Required no maintenance or touch ups during the burn.

TLDR:
Earth and Barnyard pre light turned into a nutty sweet smoke for the duration
Decent build


OK....noob learned
1) there was an underlying real sweetness to this smoke. I am not thinking this would be classified as a really good smoke so I am encouraged to believe there is a genuine smoke attribute one would call "sweet". I once read someone describe a smoke like it was a liquid. Like they were drinking it. I assume that's at least a little over the top but interesting. If this one was a turd I look forward to the magic elixir.

B) Pre light wrapper taste and as smoking continued.....probably some oils transferred to my lips. It had a feel and a taste and I tried to look up what this might be called. I round-a-bout came to the conclusion that this transfer is the result of an attribute in the wrapper known as "toothy"....oil glands in the leaf. Does that sound right ?




So much for brevity d'oh!


Noob mistake #1

From the website of the brew you were drinking wrote:
Brewed using a boatload of intense Northwest hops, we boil this continually hopped IPA for a full 60 minutes, adding more than 60 hop additions continuously to create a bold and timeless flavor. Continually hopped to deliver a pungently, citrusy, grassy hop flavor without being crushingly bitter, 60 Minute IPA is a surprisingly sessionable IPA for the craft enthusiast.


Any review that is the result of drinking such a beverage while smoking a cigar (sticks are what falls from trees) is useless. Next time if you must quench your thirst while smoking a cigar that you plan to give a review use water. That way you won’t introduce foreign flavors to your palette which will distort the flavors of the cigar and the subsequent review of the same.
Tiver Online
#68 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
Abrignac wrote:
Noob mistake #1



Any review that is the result of drinking such a beverage while smoking a cigar (sticks are what falls from trees) is useless. Next time if you must quench your thirst while smoking a cigar that you plan to give a review use water. That way you won’t introduce foreign flavors to your palette which will distort the flavors of the cigar and the subsequent review of the same.



Point taken.

Ignorance is part of what makes me a noob.

"Stick" seems to be tossed around as part of the vernacular in some parts of the cigar world. I can't say I thought too much of it. I can refrain from using it.

Abrignac Online
#69 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,217
Tiver wrote:
Point taken.

Ignorance is part of what makes me a noob.

"Stick" seems to be tossed around as part of the vernacular in some parts of the cigar world. I can't say I thought too much of it. I can refrain from using it.



You’re learning. Check out halfwheel.com. It used to be good site with lots of reliable reviews. Since I don’t peruse it anymore I can’t say if it’s still relevant. I don’t pay attention to reviews since I’ve settled on the cigars I choose to smoke and as such not really interested in other stuff.

BTW, I really don’t suggest you concern yourself with all the slight flavor nuances. To do so is an exercise in rabbit hole diving.

Find some decent cigars you like and buy an ample supply. Obviously, I suggest staying way from the mixed sampler bags. You know the ones with 30 cigars from 5 different manufacturers that sell for $2 a cigar. You’re just pizzing away money. There is a reason they sell them so cheap. Not a to say you can’t find some decent $2-3 cigars. They used to pop up every now and then. Not so much nowadays.

For the record about 2/3rds of what I smoke are Fuente’s. Mostly the Hemingway, Reserva, Anjeo and Opus lines.

HTH
Tiver Online
#70 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
I've been on a smoking hiatus following a dental visit. Needed a little time to heal. Still, cigars keep arriving

In keeping with the thread title I am just going to go with Turd or Not Turd

CAO L'Anniversaire Cameroon Robusto (BP) Cbid fiver $11.50

Overall on the mild side of medium.

Great straight burn and held a 2" light gray ash followed by another 2" ash

Lingering after smoke tastes are not unpleasant

Nothing super-duper

In my limited experience not turd, but not likely I will buy more. I smoked it in the AM and it might do alright with a cup of joe.


My smoking impressions:
Punched
White pepper for most of the first third with tobacco and slight mild cream in the background.
Took almost the whole first third to bring the tobacco and cream to the fore at which time the pepper was all but absent. Prior to this the cigar was not particularly inviting.
From the last of the first third through most of the remainder, the cigar continued to evolve with a cool and steady burn. The tobacco and cream flavors gently intensifying with the cream developing a very subtle sweetness. As it approached a nub, the white pepper returned but the other flavors maintained a decent balance.

Tiver Online
#71 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
I am posting here mainly as a thanks to all of you who took the time to post in this thread. I reread through it and see that the replies were pretty damn good.

I never really wanted to try and "review" cigars in this thread, I was just sorting out my impressions on a public forum. That's probably not too interesting, so I have essentially abandoned that.

Back in December and January I picked up a few dozen fivers of various sorts from Cbid while burning a few along the way. Seems I was liking Ecuador habano wrapers so I focused on some of them. Then I went to maduros of all variety including some oscuros. Lately the fivers have come mainly from other places.

I have acquired a backlog which seems to be kind of what happens. If I've smoked one out of ten of what I've picked up, that would be a lot, but mostly the untried are fivers and a few singles. I am sure I'll end up with a few cigars I don't love....but at least they won't all be the same Eh? . I have been relying upon consensus for flavor and strength description from multiple sources which includes this forum.

Along these lines I guess I have come to less prefer strong pepper character to earthy, espresso and mild natural sweetness but still somewhat full. Maybe strange, but when I am not smoking and thinking about smoking, I think I want to find something in between that doesn't hide the pepper too much. Hence i picked up some Sumatra wrapped

So thanks again, I am in for a long ride.
Mraia Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 04-18-2019
Posts: 420
Tiver wrote:

Along these lines I guess I have come to less prefer strong pepper character to earthy, espresso and mild natural sweetness but still somewhat full. Maybe strange, but when I am not smoking and thinking about smoking, I think I want to find something in between that doesn't hide the pepper too much. Hence i picked up some Sumatra wrapped

So thanks again, I am in for a long ride.


Applause

I think we like the same kind of stuff. I like creamy, coffee, mildly sweet (but not infused).
Tiver Online
#73 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
Mraia wrote:
Applause

I think we like the same kind of stuff. I like creamy, coffee, mildly sweet (but not infused).



Might be. In a word, describing a cigar as "chewy" is a direction I seem to favor. I am sure it's a little different for everyone as I feel there is some dimension beyond just a flavor profile. Some pepper and wood or cedar notes could help balance a smoke that might otherwise be too sweet.
Mraia Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 04-18-2019
Posts: 420
I definitely get what your saying about another dimension beyond just “flavor” Maybe umami is appropriate?
I’ve heard chewy applied to flavor profiles before, and I’m kind of waiting for that to present itself to me. I’m trying lots of different smokes and really trying to develop the palate but I’m nowhere near it yet though which is frustrating. A lot of cigars still taste like fat cigarettes to me. but every so often something peeks through the clouds and I know I’ve found a keeper!
Gonna have to keep buying and trying I guess!
tonygraz Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,175
I didn't get much from the CAO Cameroon. I may have another one or two floating around, but they are just a yard gar in my book.
Tiver Online
#76 Posted:
Joined: 08-22-2019
Posts: 237
tonygraz wrote:
I didn't get much from the CAO Cameroon. I may have another one or two floating around, but they are just a yard gar in my book.


I smoked one with my buddy and he said it would be a good smoke while fishing. Kind of what I am getting from your comment. Not really one you keep looking at and thinking, "Damn, that's pretty good" But..with a coffee or a beer I think it holds up OK.

The one I smoked was rolled a bit too tight.
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