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1. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:38 PM
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Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth
Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "--
Who else is God referring to when he says "us"(plural) in theses verses?
I have wondered about this for a long time..
wheel,
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2. Author: JadeRose
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:40 PM
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Prolly just shootin the shit with one of his buddies.
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3. Author: borndead1
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:41 PM
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It’s easy. God is an alien, and he and his alien homies created the human race.
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4. Author: wekikther4wer
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:42 PM
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5. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:42 PM
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^ Maybe,,,
Are you saying there may be more than one deity ?
wheel,
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6. Author: JadeRose
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:43 PM
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Gene Simmons is the God of Thunder.....
...and Rock and ROOOOOOOL!!!
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7. Author: DrafterX
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:44 PM
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he was talking to the indians...
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8. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:44 PM
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#4
Man was not created in the image of the Angels.Man was was made into the image of God..
So says the Bible..
wheel,
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9. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:44 PM
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^
Yes.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster created all of them as a ruse just to mess with your head and give you something to talk about over dinner.
Pass the marinara sauce please.
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10. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:44 PM
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Only a cruelth God makes a man shorter than 4 cubits.
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11. Author: simmons_j_m
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:45 PM
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God the Father, Jesus (son of God, and Holy Spirit (Ghost in old school terminology)... Also known as the Godhead or Trinity (which the later word is not found in the Bible, but ascribed by humans)
We are Made in God’s image, but we did not have knowledge of right and wrong before Adam and Eve sinned...
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12. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:45 PM
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13. Author: borndead1
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:46 PM
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Wheel...look up some ancient Sumerian writings.
The whole "only 1 god" idea is a relatively new concept.
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14. Author: fishinguitarman
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:47 PM
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15. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:47 PM
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^ The Holy Trinity is not in the Old Testament and are considered one being.
wheel,
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16. Author: JadeRose
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:48 PM
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....and God said.."Let there be Cowboys"..and there was. God saw that they sucketh so he said, "I must create a proper shithole for these Cowboys to dwelleth. Behold!!! Texas!!!!
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17. Author: fishinguitarman
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:49 PM
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No, 3 persons but one God.
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18. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:50 PM
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##
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######## ##### #### #### ## ## ######
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19. Author: JadeRose
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:51 PM
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20. Author: fishinguitarman
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Date: 07/27/2010 05:59 PM
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Holy, holy, holy!
Lord God Almighty!
Early in the morning
Our song shall rise to thee
There is a sign at the sight of thee
Merciful and mighty
God in three Persons
God in three Persons
Blessed Trinity
Holy, holy, holy!
Though the darkness hide thee
Though the eye of sinful man
Thy glory may not see
Only Thou art holy
There is none beside thee
Perfect in power
Perfect in power
In love, and purity
Holy, holy, holy!
Lord God Almighty!
All thy works shall praise thy Name
In earth, and sky, and sea
There is a sign at the sight of thee
There is none beside thee
God in three Persons
Blessed Trinity
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21. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:00 PM
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^ A Protestant Hymn,,
Not a Biblical Source...
wheel,
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22. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:02 PM
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Borndead,,,
THE ANUNNAKI - those who from heaven to Earth came. About an advanced giant human race millions of years ahead of us in technology, Like a starwars movie with beam weapons, and aircrafts. They come from an undiscovered tenth planet Nibiru in our solar system way past pluto, that has an elongated orbit that goes way past pluto and enters the inner solar system between mars and jupiter in a reverse rotation every 3600 years. How they came here thousands of years ago and gave birth to humanity here on Earth. Because of their long planet circuits around the sun, they have a very long life. So advanced in technology people here knew them as gods and lords when they would come back on their celestial chariots. The Anunnaki are human and believe in god they call The Creator of All. THE ANNUNAKI ARE KNOWN IN THE KJV OF THE BIBLE AS THE ANNAKIM (Hebrew), in Deuteronomy 1:28-2:10, 11, 21. 9:2 Joshua 11:21,22 and 14:12,15. And also KNOW AS THE SONS OF ANAK in NUMBERS: 13:22,28,33; DT: 9:2; JOSHUA 15:13,14; 21:11; and JUDGES 1:20
Hmmm ???
lol
wheel,
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23. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:05 PM
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^
Nah.
It was a giant robot.
I saw it in a movie.
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24. Author: simmons_j_m
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:07 PM
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15. Author: wheelrite
^ The Holy Trinity is not in the Old Testament and are considered one being.
wheel,
________________________________________________________
The Spirit of God is mentioned throughout the Old Testament and some would argue that the Angel of the Lord that appeared to Joshua before invading the Promised Land was Jesus... although not mentioned by name...
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25. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:10 PM
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^could’nt have been Jesus.He has born a Man,not a spirit..
wheel,
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26. Author: fishinguitarman
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:10 PM
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Old Testament Trinity Proof Texts
Genesis 1:26
"Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.
Genesis 19:24
"Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.
Isaiah 6
Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
Isaiah 40-55
Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. This spectacular link explores over 20 different passages in Isaiah and John.
Isaiah 45:23-24
I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, ’Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.’ Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.
Micah 5:2
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.
New Testament Trinity Proof Texts
Mark 2:5-12
Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
John 5:18
For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8:58
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
John 10:33
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. … Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?"
John 12:41 + Isaiah 6
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.
John 19:7
The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."
The Jehovah’s Witnesses explanation of John 19:7 is so bad, we awarded them the STINCS Trophy.
Romans 14:11
For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God."
2 Corinthians 13:14
Philippians 2:1-2
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
Philippians 2:9-11
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Revelation 22:3
"And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him."
Jesus worshipped in the highest sense of "latreuo
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27. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:13 PM
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Wheel,
Interesting question!) The answer depends on which translation/re-statement one relies upon- and one’s personal religious perspective.
Interestingly, I had this exact conversation a couple years ago with an acquaintance who is a bible-carrying Southern Baptist. He was taught to interpret "us" in Genesis Bereishit (Book One, Chapter One) to mean Jesus. He sees it as proof that Jesus existed "in the beginning".
Jews have basically interpreted it to mean the angels.
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28. Author: tailgater
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:15 PM
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Reply
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Is Genesis 1:26 the album with Peter Gabriel instead of that dude who sings for Disney kids movies?
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29. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:19 PM
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FGM with all due respect,
I believe in the Holy Trinity,but your Old Testament reference are conjecture and editorials. Not Biblical texts that actually speak of a Holy Trinity.
The New Testament most certainly does,,
wheel,
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30. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:29 PM
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31. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:31 PM
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My religious book is more right than yours!
(and mine even comes with a great recipe for homemade pasta)
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32. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:32 PM
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Robert I am Catholic..
wheel,
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33. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:33 PM
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34. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:34 PM
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Lutherans make the best desserts.
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35. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:35 PM
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What is the Catholic interpretation of the use of the plural word "us"?
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36. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:38 PM
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RE #34
How long do you have to cook them for?
Any spicing secrets you’d care to share?
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37. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:42 PM
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Robert,,
Catholic doctrine teaches God alone created all things.
But, I don’t believe the Old Testament is a Literal account.
wheel,
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38. Author: tailgater
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:42 PM
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Well, since the Vatican is in Rome, it’s easy to see the confusion.
The word isn’t "us" as in "me and you".
It’s a hard letter "U" like in "you’s guys".
Most that are familiar with how the Eye-talians talk will understand this.
I’m sure it’s much more clear now.
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39. Author: simmons_j_m
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:44 PM
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Wheel... if you are looking for specific scriptures to back up the "Trinity" you won’t find any... none in the OT or NT for that matter.
You have to take the Biblical context of the Godhead from throughout the Bible...
You started off with the passages in Genesis... those are a starting point... we are made in God’s image, while the Angels are not...
You could also look at Jesus’ declaration in the beginning of John.
You gotta look around yourself... pick up some commentaries on those scriptures, maybe even get yourself a Key Word Bible or at least a Strong’s Concordance and the hebrew and greek bibles...
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40. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:45 PM
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Judaism interprets it the same as you wrote.
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41. Author: Rut-Ro!
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:47 PM
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^why? they get everything mixed up.
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42. Author: Rut-Ro!
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:49 PM
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oops! 41 for 35 sorry Robert!
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43. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:52 PM
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Settle your religious differences here:
http://www.molleindustria.org/faith-fighter
(note though that the FSM simply floats through the background every now and then, observing his creations duking it out)
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44. Author: Thunder.Gerbil
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Date: 07/27/2010 06:54 PM
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http://www.venganza.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/a61d578e7688_B442/mojesusfight.jpg
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45. Author: adroomi420c
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Date: 07/27/2010 08:25 PM
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The first thing you could do Wheel, and I mean this with all sincerity, is to forget all this religion and religious bullshit that is being tossed your way and look within yourself.
Every spiritual leader since the dawn of human existence to include the modern day Shamans of tribal cultures has told us to deny organized religion and look within ourselves to find God, because, as your question relates, we ARE God. God is Us and We are God. It’s only us humans that try to put God into some sort of book or scripture (a good rulebook with the ultimate rulemaker, eh?), and then control each other with the fear of the very God that IS us and is nothing but pure love.
Put down the book, look inside yourself, and you may or may not find God.
Just my opinion.
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46. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 08:31 PM
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^ I don’t disagree with that .
We alll must find peace and salvation in our own way.
wheel,
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47. Author: adroomi420c
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Date: 07/27/2010 08:46 PM
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Well, sorta but not quite. All those spiritual leaders (to include the modern day Shamans) also said that you cannot find God on your own. This is due to our duality as human/God and our conscience and culture which prevent us from "seeing" who and what we really are.
Jesus told us that nobody can enter and find God without Him. What the original story told was that He was a a teacher and that he could help us to find God within ourselves, just as The Buddha, Mithra, and countless other spiritual leaders have taught.
Adam ate the apple and learned to talk. When he learned to talk he used his freewill to walk right out of the Garden (Earth and it’s ecosystem), and seek out better things. Things such as oil and money. Other apples.
Heaven is not a cloud in the sky. It’s awareness, enlightenment, and nirvana. It’s the realization that we never die, but yet get sent off as living energy to our next mission. Maybe as a flickering thought in someone’s mind, or maybe just a fart in the wind. Either way, energy never dies, just flesh.
Hell to me (and many others) is living a full, long, human life, and never realizing that we are in Heaven right here in our Garden, and never having taken the time to GROW and to develop. We have been given a huge gift in this lifetime, and yet we use 3% of our human brains in our daily lives. Usually to watch tv (yet another apple handed to us by the devil).
The spiritual leaders have warned us about a false God. One that would come cloaked as the real deal, and lead us all into death and unhappiness. We have been so focused on the Anti-Christ that we never read between the lines, and started looking in our own backyards.
In most old and new spiritual groups, the founding religion was based upon the Sun. Even modern Christianity finds it’s roots in Sun worship. It is after all, energy that makes us live, and the Sun is our little heat source.
Many religions speak of the false God that will come 2000 years after the "death" of God."
In the year 2000, BP changed it’s corporate logo to that of the Helios. The Sun God.
Oil, money, and the death of our oceans from a giant claiming to be the "Sun God."
Go figure.
:)
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48. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 08:53 PM
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An enigma wrapped in a slice of bacon...
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49. Author: andytv
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Date: 07/27/2010 08:58 PM
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50. Author: pacman357
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Date: 07/27/2010 09:30 PM
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If we’re supposed to have "have dominion over the fish of the sea", how can someone spend 8-12 hours fishing and not catch something? I’ve seen it happen.
Um...not to ME, of course.
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51. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 09:31 PM
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52. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/27/2010 09:41 PM
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Pretend that airplanes in the night sky are like shooting stars.
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53. Author: pacman357
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Date: 07/27/2010 09:46 PM
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#52 Send Bruce Willis to blow them up?
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54. Author: njstone
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Date: 07/27/2010 10:06 PM
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Wheel--The answer to the original question is this:
In that passage, God is conversing with Himself.
That is, one member of the Godhead/Trinity/Divine Plurality is speaking with the others / with Himself.
Although back when Genesis was written there was not a full sense of understanding God as a Trinity yet (not that we understand the Trinity much better today, lol), but there still was a sense that God was some kind of multi-level consciousness.
In fact, the ancient Hebrew word for God is "Elohim," which is a PLURAL word, but means simply "God" in the singular. So the Hebrew understanding of their God was that He Himself was ... somehow ... plural.
So back to the passage: God (the Son?) is looking at His creation, and says to God (the Father?) "Let US make man in OUR own image."
The image of God is 3-parts: Father, Son, and Spirit. Likewise man is created in this passage of Genesis in parts: male and female.
When those two parts join together in marriage, the two become one (still two people in once sense, but joined into one essence in another sense). When joined in a relationship with God, those 3 (husband, wife, God) become 1--an image of the Trinity of God. "And a cord of three strands is not easily broken."
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55. Author: jetblasted
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Date: 07/27/2010 10:19 PM
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Wait ... I want the hear more about the giants ...
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56. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/27/2010 10:31 PM
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They’ll finish better than the Cowboys this year.
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57. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 10:32 PM
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^ Hardly..
The Buccs will suck as usual...
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58. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/27/2010 10:35 PM
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You don’t need to be a prophet to figure that out.
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59. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/27/2010 10:43 PM
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^
I googled Tampa and it sent me to a site called Loserville USA...
wheel,
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60. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/27/2010 11:06 PM
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No kidding. It can be inferred from biblical text!
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61. Author: euodias
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Date: 07/28/2010 02:54 AM
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Seems most likely to me to be a hold over literary convention from very early Hebrew grammar. As noted by njstone, the word used for God in those passages is always in the plural. The language needed to write about a singular creator-god speaking to himself probably did not exist before the writer of Genesis sat down to write.
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62. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:28 AM
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Look, it has been copied and re-copied and translated then re-translated into many, many languages over thousands of years. Additionally, the Hebrew words in the Torah do not contain any vowels. From my perspective, no one REALLY KNOWS what it means. Plenty of healthy speculation, debate arguing and explaining, but no widely accepted definitive answer as of yet, if ever.
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63. Author: DrMaddVibe
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:30 AM
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But ya gotta have faith, faith, faith...BAYBEE
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64. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:31 AM
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65. Author: burgess_b
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:01 AM
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could be a grammatical translation error. like You (singular) and you (plural). most likely the trinity or the heavenly host.
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66. Author: Rut-Ro!
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Date: 07/28/2010 11:40 AM
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God is refering to Himself "US" indicating the triune Godhead. But, I found this explanation in a commemtary that I like.
"not spoke as in generally supposed but in deep comparison. The words should be rendered "Behold what has become(by sin) of the man who was one of us"! Formed, at first, in our image to know good and evil-how sad his condition is now.
I like it!
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67. Author: Rut-Ro!
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Date: 07/28/2010 11:44 AM
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Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever "--
So, what God is saying, is that the man can come and take from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever and redeem himself. Since God will forgive all those who repent their sins.
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68. Author: Secondz
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Date: 07/28/2010 01:36 PM
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#1....Wheel
NIV: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
KJV: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
I found this searching for a meaning...Its Interesting:
“ had they been instructed in the mysteries of faith they would have perished eternally, which is signified by the words, "now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of lives, and eat, and live to eternity." The case is this: When men have become inverted orders of life, and are unwilling to live, or to become wise, except from themselves and from their Own, they reason about everything they hear respecting faith, as to whether it is so, or not; and as they do this from themselves and from their own things of sense and of memory-knowledge, it must needs lead to denial, and consequently to blasphemy and profanation, so that at length they do not scruple to mix up profane things with holy. When a man becomes like this, he is so condemned in the other life that there remains for him no hope of salvation. For things mixed up by profanation remain so mixed up, so that whenever any idea of something holy presents itself, an idea of something profane that is conjoined with it is also there, the consequence of which is that the person cannot be in any society except one of the damned. Whatever is present in any idea of thought in consequence of being conjoined with it, is most exquisitely perceived in the other life, even by spirits in the world of spirits, and much more so by angelic spirits, so exquisitely indeed that from a single idea they know a person’s character. The separation of profane and holy ideas when thus conjoined cannot be effected except by means of such infernal torment that if a man were aware of it he would as carefully avoid profanation as he would avoid hell itself.” - SBMI.com
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69. Author: daveincincy
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Date: 07/28/2010 02:23 PM
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Good post, Nate (#54).
And, oddly, I also agree with a large part of what was said by...Adroomi?? :shocked: LOL
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adroomi420c said:
Well, sorta but not quite. All those spiritual leaders (to include the modern day Shamans) also said that you cannot find God on your own. This is due to our duality as human/God and our conscience and culture which prevent us from "seeing" who and what we really are.
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Agree. You won’t find God on your own...or I should say, not with your own knowledge and understanding. Trying to find him with our own understanding will most likely lead us to believe God is something that he is not. Like you said, "our conscience and culture prevent us from seeing who and what we really are." From Genesis 2 it says, "In the middle of the garden he placed the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Adam and Eve were created in the image of God. However, they weren’t God. But when they were deceived into believing they could actually know/think like God by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they brought "the curse" on themselves (on man) instead of eating from the tree of life and simply experiencing God’s beauty and goodness around them and in them.
I don’t recall reading that "Adam learned to talk after eating the apple"...at least not in anything I’ve read. Adam (and Eve) were deceived into thinking that by eating from the tree of knowledge they could be like God and know everything God knows. Their minds were corrupted. We are God’s creation, created in his image. We are not God, but we like to play God. We like to judge people, and try to change people, etc. Whether we realize it or not, we like to do a lot of things that are really God’s business, not ours, and we like to try and think like God.
Like Adroomi said, our conscience and our culture prevent us from seeing who we really are (in Christ). Our culture tells us we need this-and-that to be a better person. It tells us we really don’t know who we are so this item will make us what we want to become. Culture doesn’t extend much grace to anyone. Our conscience (i.e. carnal) mind plays into that, once the seed of doubt is placed in our mind, we start doubting who we are and what our purpose is, etc. We may also start to doubt who we think God really is...we begin to deceive ourselves and question God’s sovereignty in ALL things. Instead of trusting and believing in God, eating from the tree of life, and experiencing his beauty, we begin to question Him and try to look at things and figure things out like we we’re actually in control, eating from the tree of knowledge...and basically screwing up and bringing death (literally and figuratively) to everything in the process. Instead of human *beings*, many become human *doings* and feel like they need to do stuff all the time to earn God’s grace...becuase that’s what God wants and requires of us, right? It’s for all of this that God sent his Son to break "the curse," and to show the world who and what God really is...love. And also to bring life, eternal life, to those who believe. If you know Jesus, and know what Jesus was about and what he taught (to love one another), than you should have no doubts about who God is and what he is like. Everything Jesus did and said was because his Father told him to do or say it. Jesus came to give LIFE. Jesus says in John 10:9-10, "I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full."
Consider the "thief" to be your carnal mind. Once the "thief" enters, once your mind gets deceived into thinking God is anything other than what he says he is, you won’t experience life. It will steal, kill, and destroy everything you believed that God has promised you.
Recall that the tree of life and tree of knowledge were "in the middle" of the garden. In a figurative sense (and literal I suppose), you can keep both trees in the middle (i.e. the center) of your life. Keep God and Jesus the center of your life. Believe in Jesus and do as he commanded (as hard as it is many times), eating from the tree of life (i.e. growing a relationship with Him) and experience LIFE. Keep God in the middle of your life, but leave the "God stuff" to God because it does you no earthly good to play God. If you believe and trust in Jesus and what he taught, and trust in God that he is doing what is being done (through His power) for a purpose then you should have no doubts or skepticisms. Your earthly conscience and culture should not be deceiving you into believing that anything else should be happening that isn’t of God, even as dark as it might look right now, or that you are anything else other than blessed to be where you are right now for reasons only God knows. You know how someone will get asked a question, and the reply might be "God only knows." I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone actually say that in a positive way...head shaking, chin down (myself included). Say it like you believe in it!
Here, let me say it like you might hear it if you’ve ever had the pleasure of going to a black church..."say it like you BEEE-LIEEEVE in IT...HUH! ARE YOU STAN-DING ON THE PROMISESSSS OF GAAAWD?!? HAA! ARE YOU BEEEELIEVING IN THE WOOOORDS THAT HE SPOKE?!? HAA HUH! Ephesians 1...PRAISE be to the GOD and FATHER of OUR Lord Jesus Christ, who has BLESSED us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Hallelujah...For he CHOSE us IN HIM before the creation of the world, I said BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WOOORLD, to be holy and blameless in his sight. HEAR ME OUT, CHURCH...In LOVE he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, HALLELUJAH, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has FREELY given us in the One he loves. PRAISE GOD...CAAAN I GET AN ’AMEN?’ (grabs a handkerchief and wipes forehead)...In him we have REDEMPTION through his blood-HUH, the FORGIVENESS of sins-HUH, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he LAVISHED ON US-HUH with all wisdom AND understanding-MUH. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his GOOD pleasure...CAN YA HEAR ME CHOIR, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillMENT — to bring ALLLL things in heaven AND on earth together-HUH under one head, even Christ...AMEN...AND aaa-men. :-)
Now I’ve totally lost track. LOL
It’s that trying to keep your life Christ/God centered, through relationship with Him, not religious doctrines and traditions...even though someone will probably tell me I’m spewing religious doctrines...and that’s fine...really it is. It’s trying to conform back to God’s image and will, not the world’s...Romans 12:2, "do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." I think there was another post/thread (about "religious opinions") where the question came up of "knowing God’s will"...or maybe it was "God’s mind." Regardless, I don’t know what it is for me. I certainly don’t know what it is for any of youz. But I do know, in my "religious opinion," that I will never know what it is if I’m out of relationship with Him...which happens quite often (surprise surprise). The same goes for anyone else. You’re not REALLY going to know your spouse, friend, child, etc if you’re not willing to spend any time with him/her. Of course, none of the above stuff is actually relevant if you don’t believe. Like Rickamaven said, "there is no sin if you don’t believein religion (God?)," or words to that effect. Which makes sense to the "unbeliever" I supppose. I read a quote recently, by C.S. Lewis, that I think makes sense to me as a "believer." "There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, ’Thy will be done,’ and those to whom God says, ’All right, then, have it your way.’" That’s basically what God said to Adam and Eve when they ate the apple.
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Adroomi said,
Heaven is not a cloud in the sky. It’s awareness, enlightenment, and nirvana. It’s the realization that we never die, but yet get sent off as living energy to our next mission. Maybe as a flickering thought in someone’s mind, or maybe just a fart in the wind. Either way, energy never dies, just flesh.
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I to do not believe heaven is a on a cloud in the sky...I’m just not sure about all that other Carl Sagan stuff you mentioned. LOL
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Adroomi said,
Hell to me (and many others) is living a full, long, human life, and never realizing that we are in Heaven right here in our Garden, and never having taken the time to GROW and to develop. We have been given a huge gift in this lifetime, and yet we use 3% of our human brains in our daily lives. Usually to watch tv (yet another apple handed to us by the devil).
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I to do not believe in hell as a physical, fiery pit "down there" somewhere. I believe there is a sort of "fiery" hell, but it’s more of a purification (i.e. perfecting) process than a place with devils and pitchforks...LOL  devils and pitchforks...nice fear tactic I suppose. Thank religious doctrine to come up with good stuff like that.
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Adroomi said,
The spiritual leaders have warned us about a false God. One that would come cloaked as the real deal, and lead us all into death and unhappiness. We have been so focused on the Anti-Christ that we never read between the lines, and started looking in our own backyards.
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BINGO! Maybe it’s Saddam...no, he’s dead now...maybe it’s Ack-muh-din-a-jad...he might fit Nostradamus’ prediction...no...it’s gotta be Obama. LOL Like Adroomi said, look in your own backyard. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, and maybe he and I aren’t on the same frequency here, but consider the word "anti." It’s "against," "opposite of," "opposing." It’s anything against, opposite of, or opposing Christ. In other words, spending time or putting faith in anything that keeps you from experiencing greater life in Christ and his nature is "anti-Christ." Not some middle eastern leader wearing a turbin with a gem in it...even if he opposes Christ. Makes for another good fear tactic I suppose. How about anything you own, or anything you do that keeps you from experiencing Christ? What are you putting your faith and hope in. How about this word "idolatry." Same thing basically..."where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Let me add that there is nothing wrong with owning a big house and fancy car, etc. I’d like to have all that stuff. I don’t see anything wrong with owning things...it’s when they start to own (or pwne) you...I did have to buy a big TV though. :-) Again, I guess none of this stuff is relevant to the unbeliever. I guess it gets back to the story Jesus told about the rich man and the camel passing through the eye of a needle. It seems impossible, but if he REALLY knew Jesus and saw a bigger picture, it probably wouldn’t have been so hard.....actually...it still seems pretty hard unless you actually walk it out.
Well, I’m done. No telling how long this reply will look when it posts. It would suck (for me) if something went wrong right now and it didn’t post...cuz I ain’t typing all that again. You’d just have to get the Cliff Notes version, but I don’t feel like typing that either.
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70. Author: panama red
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:09 PM
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Wheel ------0
FGM---------3
Adroomi-----0
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71. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:10 PM
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72. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:13 PM
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I’m not keeping score.
Just looking for opinions about these verses.That’s all..
wheel,
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73. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:43 PM
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First, I’d like to compliment #69. Author: daveincincy for a posting so long that I cannot imagine it making a point.
Second – I was taught that there were a ‘host of angels” with god, and Lucifer was one of just one of the famous ones (getting cast out and all), but there were lots of them. Like Gabriel, Michael and others.
So I would recon that is the “us”
I never thought of God as being alone in heaven.
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74. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:49 PM
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^ The Angels are not the image of God,man is.Therefore the use of the word "US" does’nt apply to the angels.
imho
wheel,
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75. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/28/2010 09:59 PM
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^ I never heard that angels were not in the image of God. In fact every likeness I have ever seen of and angel looked – human (sans the wings).
What makes you say that angels were not made to look like God?
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76. Author: njstone
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:01 PM
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#62 -- Actually, rfenst, that’s a common misconception. The modern Bible translations are not translated copies of translated copies, etc. They are translations taken from the ancient texts themselves.
We have Old Testament (Torah) texts from 600BC--and they DO NOT VARY from the Hebrew Torah copies from the Roman period hundreds of years later--and New Testament texts from the 1st generation after Christ.
For comparison--there are over 5000 authentic ancient Greek texts of the New Testament, with next to NO variation at all from text to text. All of those are within 100 years from the "autographs." Of the works of Plato, we have only a couple dozen, and the closest to the source is something like 500 years after the man died.
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77. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:10 PM
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The angels were creatures of God,not gods themselves.
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78. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:11 PM
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Perhaps God could have been anthropomorphizing the angels. Sometime I look at my cat and say “let’s make some soup”.
In fact, the cat does not sustainably contribute to the soup making.
Logic and faith . . . .Hmmmm . . . .
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79. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:13 PM
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80. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:14 PM
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We know what man looks like.
What do angels look like? What does G_d look like? If you believe you know, how so?
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81. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:15 PM
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^ Image has many meanings..Not just physical appearance.
wheel,
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82. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:18 PM
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I would take it as God speaking to his heavenly minions, as we would to our pets.
Sort of helps with the loneliness.
Besides, a good master respect his pets as equals – at times.
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83. Author: njstone
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:22 PM
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God’s not lonely. He didn’t create us because he had some sort of "lack" in His life. He is 100% happy, fulfilled, etc. in Himself. God is "being" itself, he doesn’t need company. God is "love" itself, he doesn’t need a mate/pet/friend to have fun with. The Father, Son, and Spirit have a perfect and fulfilling relationship with one another.
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84. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:25 PM
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Well –
Behold the Prophet From New Jersey . . . .
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85. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:32 PM
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#83-
Sorry, but I don’t believe that you know the mind of God – at least not better than the rest of us.
You may feel that you do, you may believe it - and good for you.
But I don’t think you have any special knowledge or enlightenment.
And no mater how content a being is, they may want children.
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86. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:47 PM
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Wheel,
This is the kind of thread I really like. So, to try to get it back on track:
www.hebrewbible.co.il/
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87. Author: njstone
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Date: 07/28/2010 10:58 PM
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^ you look pretty good on that video, Robert.
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88. Author: adroomi420c
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Date: 07/28/2010 11:10 PM
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A book of fables, written, edited, and published by a zealous government official that wanted total control of the people, and murdered those that refused to bow down to his golden calf of a bullshit Bible.
Nowhere in Christs writings or teachings did he ever want this. Organized religion and those that are so damn lazy that they think they can find God in a book are the very things Christ despised most.
Once again I say, look inside ourselves and find God.
:)
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89. Author: njstone
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Date: 07/28/2010 11:26 PM
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^ [Yoda voice] Much fear I sense in you ...
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90. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/29/2010 06:56 AM
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I did a little rearch as to what angels look like based on Dogma.
I was hoping the answer was Selma Hayek but it turns out she was a muse. The correct answer is that angels look like Matt Damon and Ben Affleck.
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91. Author: wheelrite
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Date: 07/29/2010 07:06 AM
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Eureka !!
http://www.ruggedelegantliving.com/a/images/VS.Fashion.05.Angels.jpg
wheel,
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92. Author: daveincincy
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Date: 07/29/2010 07:58 AM
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85. Author: Brewha Date: 07/28/2010 10:32 PM Reply
#83-
And no mater how content a being is, they may want children.
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You’ve heard the phrase "we’re all God’s children?" We’re called "sons of God."
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:26-27
Romans 8
13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father."
...just throwin that out FWIW.
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93. Author: davey
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Date: 07/29/2010 07:59 AM
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Deut 6:4
Hear O Isreal, the Lord our God is one God..
original text " Hear O Isreal, the Lord our Eloha(plural) is one Elohim( Singular)."
??????? ??????????? ??????? ??????????? ??????? ? ??????
The text express an understanding that the singular deity of God is expressed in more than one persons. Not my opinions, but original hebrew text.
--
David A.K.A. Davey (not Homebrew!!!)
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94. Author: davey
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Date: 07/29/2010 08:01 AM
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ahhh bummer..
The ????? are actually original hebrew text I pasted. Shows the words are different (singular and plural.Looks like it didn’t make it to our forum. Sorry.
Looks like you’ll have to confirm the accuracy of my statements yourself....if you care to. He who has ears....
:)
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95. Author: myash07
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Date: 07/29/2010 09:14 AM
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Nancy Policy - Harry Reid - Obama - Rangle - Jesse Jackson - Sharpton ?
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96. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:10 AM
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#92 – wait, even women and children are called “Sons of God”?
Hmmmm . . . . .
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97. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:11 AM
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98. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:12 AM
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You know adroomi – people are going to start thinking you are not a good Christian with posting like #88.
- Just say’n
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99. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:12 AM
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100. Author: HockeyDad
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:13 AM
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101. Author: DrafterX
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:16 AM
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^ It’s you..?? all this time I thought it was Victor...
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102. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:29 AM
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Can we get back to spitting on the Atheists?
That was more fun.
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103. Author: DrafterX
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:40 AM
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^ that doesn’t sound very Christian like....
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104. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/29/2010 10:50 AM
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^ Your Jedi mind tricks have no effect on me.
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105. Author: DrafterX
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Date: 07/29/2010 11:26 AM
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^ You should send me your new humidor... You should send me your new humidor... You should send me your new humidor...
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106. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/29/2010 03:52 PM
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93. Author: davey
The most important prayer in Judaism.
However, Judaic analysis of it predominantly centers around the word (mis)translated (?) as "Hear"; and the belief that there is only one single G_d.
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107. Author: davey
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Date: 07/29/2010 05:14 PM
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Only one God. I
certainly agree,Rob.
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108. Author: euodias
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Date: 07/29/2010 05:38 PM
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Re: 106
What are they saying ’Hear’ should be translated as?
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109. Author: rfenst
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Date: 07/29/2010 06:35 PM
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LISTEN!
(It is written in a much larger font size.)
Any how, it is basically the affirmation that Judaism believes that there is only one single G_d.
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110. Author: njstone
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Date: 07/29/2010 08:23 PM
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Early Hebrews here henotheistic, not monotheistic, as were the early Christians (and many today). Islam is also henotheistic. The difference is this:
Monotheism: There is only one God in existence
Henotheism: There is only one God who matters, one "God," even if there are other gods
That Hebrew prayer was a statement that Elohim/Adoni/YHWH was their God ... He and He alone would they worship. They were His people, which distinguished them from the peoples of the myriad of other gods. It was also an affirmation of the "oneness" of God’s essence (which goes back to the hints at the Triune God).
Obviously, the idea of following only one god was insanity to most ancient peoples, and to many still today--like virtually everyone here in Japan, where there are thousands of gods worshiped regularly. The idea of forsaking all of their family gods to follow only the one God is extremely difficult for a Japanese, and only about 1-2% of Japan is Christian.
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111. Author: daveincincy
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Date: 07/30/2010 09:05 AM
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112. Author: Brewha
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Date: 07/30/2010 10:14 AM
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Stanger and stranger . . . seems like every culture down through time has seen thing a little different.
Also strange is a compulsion I have to mail a humidor to Oklahoma . . . .
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