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Just smoked my last precious Habanos, a well aged Cohiba Robusto. I weep to see it go. Sure, we get some pretty good stuff Cbid and elsewhere but the best cigar I've had from CBid --and I've had many-- compares to a fine Habanos like McDonald's burger to a great steak. Alas that the good stuff is so bloody expensive.

As good as many Cuban cigars can be ...

... there are so many more domestic cigars that are far superior to them ...

I've had too many Nicaraguan, Dominican and others, that brings shame to many of the Cuban cigars I've had lately.

It may have been like that years ago ... but these days, with the high demand and low supply, they seem to be rushing them out 'green' and the quality just isn't there ... just to get them out to the wanting public.

If you can get the older ones ... you are in for a real treat. Checking the box codes is extremely important, to make sure you are getting cigars that have been aged sufficiently ... or be prepared to sit on them for a few years.

slimboli is correct. my last box of isom cohiba lanceros had to age over a year in my humidor and they still weren't as good as some i had 15 years ago.

When the embargo ends, we will all smoke ISOM's and more than half the premium brands will wither away. Since I can smoke ISOMs regularly and I do agree that I have had a few that were substandard and yes, they are expensive; someone EXPERIENCED tell me of some brands that could compare to an average ISOM. I sincerely want to know because I want to buy. For those of you who are commenting, and you've only had a handful in your smoking life, remember that there is an excellent chance you've had some counterfeits. Sure some of the real ones were crap too, but the law of large numbers will prevail. The people of the ISOM's have realized their mistakes and are improving quality vs. quantity. The ISOM smokes of the future should become reminiscent of the past.


There isn't much a co. can do if they can't sell ISOM's but offer a large line of decent and great smokes, at very very reasonable prices. The ending of the embargo will not change my buying habits as I can already buy your forbidden fruit. I will always pay 2-3x what you would ever pay for ISOM's, so C-bid is an alternative that allows me to afford smoking and enjoy an occasional ISOM which is usually the highlight of my month. I anticipate that when the embargo ends, that America will help to bring down the prices and C-bid will too.

For those that give recommendations for which they think are similar to ISOM’s; those in the know, do your part in weeding out the newbie’s

Oh ... and to think that more than half the premium brands will wither away once the Embargo is lifted ... is absolutely ludicrous!

I take it Limoric is Canadian. I get up to Canada 2-3 times a year (from Seattle). Anyway, the thing is that there is a certain Cuban flavor profile that just isn't completely duplicated by others. Different, not always better. A well aged premium Cuban as a wonderful experience, but I've spent 15-20 bucks on top brand name Cubans up in Canada and have not been wowed. On a much more consistent basis, the nice Dominicans(Opuses, Fuente SG) and Nicaraguans (Padron, Oliva) really are wonderful in a different flavor sort of way. Ok, so woe is you, time for a trip or something. I'm sure you'll survive until then.

dbguru

I'm glad you mentioned that certain Cuban flavor profile, I guess it's what I really like and haven't found as yet in the non-Cuban variety. I have smoked some Cigars and thought, what was their point in making such a cigar. Kind of like making a car with a 1 gal tank. All the Cuban's I've smoked have been pretty full bodied. When I was a newbe I asked the Cigar shop owner for a mild Cuban, he laughed and said what do you mean. Maybe some people that have always smoked mild to medium distinctly different flavored cigars, see those cigars as normal, I am not one to say they're not. Explains my confusion to read people say about Cubans they've tried "tastes different" and not "fantastic". And when a mild to medium extremely well made cigar gets rated a 90 along side a great tasting full bodied Cuban which was not made as nicely, I get equally confused. Which is why I don't follow the rating system to closely anymore.

I like that leathery coffee been taste in a Cigar, and have yet to replicate that taste in the non-Cuban variety, although I admit I've only smoked about 20 different kinds of non-Cuban's. It's also why I've asked for those in the know to make specific recommendation. Trust me, I want to become converted. dbguru $15-$20 Cuban in Vancouver is $25-30 in Edmonton.

Slim mentioned that the D.R, which is not far from Cuba, can make a similar cigar. That's like saying North Carolina, which isn’t far from Kentucky, can make a similar Bourbon.

I guess we are all bias to the particular tastes we have developed, but I must say, some of the Nic's and Dim's I've had today taste better than the ones I smoked a year ago when My portfolio consisted of a handful of the variety. But I will always love a decent ISOM

I totally agree that a Cuban can't just be assumed better than any non-Cuban. As far as the Kentucky analogy, I read in CA mag that Bourbon can't really be called Bourbon unless it is made in Kentucky.

CA mag
As with French-appellation wines, there are strict laws governing just what a Bourbon must be to be labeled as such. For example, at least 51 percent of the grain used in making the whiskey must be corn (most distillers use 65 to 75 percent corn). Bourbon must be aged for a minimum of two years in new, white oak barrels that have been charred. Nothing can be added at bottling to enhance flavor, add sweetness or alter color. Though technically Bourbon can be made anywhere, Kentucky is the only state allowed to put its name on the bottle. And as Kentucky distillers are quick to point out, Bourbon is not Bourbon unless the label says so.

Some things grow naturally in their specific regions. Not too long ago a Dim or Nic puro was unheard of. It took a long time to replicate the quality found naturally in Cuba. Does that make Cuba better? Not necessarily. If the embargo didn't happen their would be very little else out there but Cuban's it was the genius of these Cuban families that were expropriated from their land, that created an alternative market. It took decades and hard ache to replicate what was easily cultivated in their old land. They should be very proud to produce a product that scores very high today. But even they reminisce about the old days and have admitted they would go back if they could recapture what was once theirs. Still some say they will never go back, their accomplishments are too much and the want to finish what they started.

The short of the long of it is; I think the average Cuban is better than the average non. But I also believe their are some non-’s out there that kick but I just want to try more of them.

Limoric, I do not consider myself to be 'one in the know' but would suggest the La Perla Habana. To me it had somewhat of a coffee flavor.
I'd send ya one but it was all I had in a sampler pack.

I agree with most all of what limoric posted here. I have "many" ISOMs and yes, I've had a few disappointments, but on the whole, they are simply outstanding, and uniquely Cuban.

Additionally, I think Cuba and the rest of the world want to get in our pants. Specifically, our hip pockets. With that in mind, what self respecting entrepreneur would sour the biggest/richest market in the world (the US)?

There may be some truth to the fact that there could be a flood not unlike the mariell(sp) boat lift, however, I think they will be so hot for us, they or at least some of those who make up they, will be vary careful NOT to put us off with cheap sticks.

Just my 2 scents...

Slimboli
"The only reason more Cuban cigars may have been smoked before the embargo ... is they were legal then for us in the U.S., and easier to get".

I wasn't saying that there were more Cuban's, but cigars made in general before the embargo. The majority just happened to be Cuban as there was really no alternative market. I was trying to establish the fact that they were able to supply the market just fine. Now remember that those factories were private and not state controlled.

Slim says, "limoric --- you make a lot of statements that seem to be based on some kind of factual statistics. What bothers me a little, is where do you get your facts, and are they really true?

Everything I've said, I read in Cigar Aficionado to some extent. I've also compared what I've read about other counties such as England, Germany and France, to my own.
Over the years that I've been reading cigar ratings and etc., I've observed an association between Cuban Cigars and foreign cigar markets. Have not observed the same association as it relates to non-Cuban's

Quote, "Most of the cigars we are talking about are not U.S. brands'.

The top Brands sold in the U.S., are made for the U.S. market, many of their head offices are in Miami and many of the factories are U.S. owned. 90% as quoted in CA mag, of the Dominican cigars are sold to America, this is a fact. As far as the patriotism goes. I don't think that Americans think about their country when they buy their smokes, but I assume that the majority are aware that the vast majority of U.S smoke are made for U.S consumption. I don't think about my county when I buy Cuban's, but I subconsciously know that it is a product not available in the U.S. When I buy Nic's and others on C-bid, I'm subconsciously thinking, U.S product. I have read in these forums too many times to count, of people criticizing other Americans for wanting to buy or obtain info on Cuban cigars, although I haven't seen it lately. Just an observation.

As far as more Cuban’s sold in Canada than any other Countries brand. Absolutely factual. IF you can provide me with more than one cigar shop that says something different, I will eat my words.

I don't mean to sound argumentative, and I too get a little ticked when I here someone spew facts that are opinion. I guess if you Drive Volvo, you know a little something about Volvo. And when you smoke Cuban's, but are apprehensively looking for an alternative, you absorb a lot of info before you start Buying. I’m probably a little bias, but I am truly looking forward to trying lots of non’s and will definitely come across many smokes better than Cuban’s

Your statement about taxes. Though all cigars are horribly taxed in Canada, Non-Cubans are still cheaper. I cringe at the thought of paying $20 for something I can buy in the U.S for $5.

I do believe that a more of the (made for the U.S) U.S brands are sold in eastern Canada; Western Canada is still Cuban Country. Don't tell anybody but, I have more than 100 C-bid cigars in my coolador.

Kind of going about this reply backwards.

limoric --- if most of your facts come from the CA rag ... then that explains a lot.

FYI ... they have been proven to be wrong about a great many things that they have published.

One example I can think of (off the top of my head), is an article I read that states that there are only three production Hemingway's that are available. They claim that the 'Short Story' and 'Work of Art' are not Hemingway's ... yet it's printed on the box of WOAM's I have, and the SS is listed on the CF site as being a Hemingway.

Give me some time ... and I'm sure I could come up with many more ... LOL!

Slimboli

Ya they're probably not the bible, but remember what I said, "Everything I've said, I read in Cigar Aficionado to some extent. I've also compared what I've read about other counties such as England, Germany and France, to my own. Over the years that I've been reading cigar ratings and etc., I've observed an association between Cuban Cigars and foreign cigar markets. Have not observed the same association as it relates to non-Cuban's

Not all my facts have come from the magazine, but much of what I've said has appeared in the mag.( no, I didn't give them the inside scoop) I like most people, cross reference things I read, not on purpose, but in a search for more info. However a lot of what's in CA is well researched. Sports Illustrated isn't the bible of sports aficionados, but I still by the swim suite issue every year; Ok I look at it in Starbucks and put it back on the shelf.

I'm sure we are mislead to a certain degree everyday, but 2+2 still = 4. Some facts are just visual, as well as factual. Cuban Cigars 400 plus years. Embargo creates new Cigar market predominately to serve the Underserved. Non-Cuban market 40 Years, each year creating better and better smokes. If no embargo, no alternative market. When embargo ends, Cuban tobacco finds itself back into most cigars as it was before.

Sentence structure not meant to be condescending, just replicate chronological order of facts.

I think this discussion has provoked a debate between which cigar tastes better IN GENERAL. I also think it's difficult to establish an answer, when we all have our favorites we've become used too. Also I think people out of human nature want to dispel the mystique associated with those things, which are forbidden to us. Also, the peanut gallery ( WHICH IS NOT YOU SLIM ) doesn't help much when they criticize something they know little about, but create perceptions, that some how become facts. We all played the secret in the circle game when we were children.

For those who have smoked at least 50 decent Cuban’s in the past 5 years, which is generally better? Cuban or non. I will leave the answer to the responsible and knowledgeable people of the forum.

If you need help with the answer, just think of one of those Cuban Models smoking an Uppman, in the current issue of CA. Remember answer immediately after.

tonester666

Thanks I've been eyeing those for a while. Will wait for an American holiday when your half nocked out from the tryptophan in the turkey and half watching the game, to bid an those cheap

dbguru

The last 2 Partagas series D#4 I've had were great. R&J cetro deluxe # 3 is one of my favorites, never had a bad one.

H Upmann magnum 46 is not as strong but if you can find one that's about a year old, wow, most mellow smoke I've ever had. The last one however tasted like the ass of a dead skunk(can I say ass on c-bid).

Let me know how it goes. Havn't had a Cuban in a couple of months, I'm due.

limoric,

I forgot, you're one of them there Commie, Candians. You've probably never heard "Let's Call the Whole Thing Off."

Just playin' wit' ya'.

Hey, do they still confiscate satelite dishes up there?

Alright lim, I don't think that was the first typo on this board you hoser. Take off!

So with the legal setup, can you get all the Yankee news networks?

Lot of interesting comments here, but I concur with Slim that a well aged Cuban puro is just a "different" cigar. I don't put it higher than the best I've non-Cuban primos I've smoked. In my book, they are simply different. I also believe that many Cuban puros today are not being aged enough. Thankfully, they print a box code. They don't begin to come into their own until about 2 years from that box code date. Any time before then and they can't hold a candle to some of the best nonCubans out there. IMHO of course.

Excellent discussion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Because of the political situation in Cuba and the renewed repression directed at anyone who even suggests political dissent, I have, personally, elected not to purchase Cuban cigars until there is political change in Cuba. If the embargo were to end tomorrow, but a totalitarian regime continue, I would still elect to forgo Cuban cigars.

With that out-of-the-way, I can say, in all honesty, my preference in taste profile of any cigars is Cuban-medium bodied. There seems to be a misconception that the traditional Cuban profile is ultra strong. It just isn't so. While there are few very mild Cuban cigars, most are not intended to be knock-you-down strong. They are full flavored and complex. Even an unbranded Cuban "farm cigar" made of tobacco grown on a small private patch, rolled, and sold for domestic Cuban consumption has that unique Cuban flavor.

Cuban cigars are no better or worse than Honduran, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Costa Rican, etc. cigars. They are unique unto themselves.

Incidently, Cuban production, in the last couple of years, has improved immeasureably. The draw problems appear to be issues of the past. The word is that the Cuban industry is now using mechanical draw testers similar to those used by the Fuentes in D.R. Were it not for the political situation, I wouldn't hesitate to buy current production.

When the embargo, ultimately, ends, it's my personal feeling that only sales of super premiums (VSG, Opus, PAM, etc) will be affected much in the short run. Many purchasers of those cigars will divert some of their regular expenditure to Habanos. I recall that pre-Embargo, Habanos represented only 2% of U.S. Cigar sales. With prices for Habanos, as they are, I find it difficult to believe that Cuban cigars will establish a market in the U.S. larger than it had in Pre-Embargo USA. The last projected numbers I saw for the Cuban industry was 170 million units produced annually with the hope for increased production to 200 million units. If the production doesn't reach 200 million and the Embargo ends, prices per unit will likely be very high. Yet, Cuban growers, last year, exported tonnage of tobacco to other countries. In Toronto, Frank Correnti continues to manufacture many private label cigars made entirely of Cuban tobacco.

I have little doubt that with an end to the Embargo, what we'll see is many non-Cuban manufacturers incorporating Cuban leaf into their blends, just as was done by the Canary Island factories for many years.

sketcha
I wish this forum had spell check. The truth is I have a word document minimized from which I cut and paste, I'm a bad speller.

I had no Idea "Strange Brew" took off in the U.S. or maybe it was some kind of underground culture thing. Cool, I'm going to rent me a copy this week; it's been like 10 years since I’ve seen that movie.

Steve*R

I had to read your post 3x to get the point that you only smoke Cuban’s that are gifted to you. How else would you have a Cuban preference, if you don't by them because of political reasons?

"Cuban cigars are no better or worse than Honduran, Dominican, Nicaraguan, Costa Rican, etc. cigars. They are unique unto themselves".

I guess I could make the same generalization about Car manufacturers, but have you ever driven a Chek Skoda.

sketcha

Guess that's where we got most of our stereotypes, eh! I think if your in the north eastern U.S, there's alot of us, so no big deal. When I was in Houston Texas in 92, everone wanted to meet me or see me, I was some sort of novelty thing, weird. It was like everone was trying to be on their best behavior around me, they even bought me Canadian Beer, it was in a clear bottle even weirder.

Things are different now, there's like 10,000 Canadians that get recruited every year in the U.S, the Tech and medical Fields. We call it the Canadian Brain Drian. So now all that's left is the Bob and Doug mackenzie types.

In southern Alberta we have the most American's than any other Province, their mostly from Texas, they fit in perfect. I think there here for the Cuban's and to see how real Rodeo is done.

ohoh, I think I might have just started something.

I forgot to add that I'm also boycotting French wine. Chirac and Poujade can sit in the bathtub together. In my basement, among others, sits an unopened case of 1996 Michel Lynch Merlot, begging to be opened, but, no! (Seven years old and ready, sigh) Thank heavens for the Australian wine industry and California's Beringer Founder's Estate Cabernet, Merlot, and Red Zinfandel.
I am so happy that the Portugese are on my good side. A good LBV (Dow or Cockburn 1994) would be difficult to live without. I can't handle the feaux ports of California and Australia...I'd rather have a glass of Mogen David 20/20.

Steve*R

Your second post answered my first question. Boycott the French all you want the don't need the commerce as much as Cuba. Oh by the way, I'm French Canadian, so send me all your French Wine, were still pi$$ed about the time they stiffed us for troupes during the battle between Montcalm and Wolf, but we still love their wine, Just think if we did get those reinforcements, you'd be living below France

cwilhelmi

I just left for the mail box with my lawn chair, I'm not leaving till the Package arrives. I Better bring some smokes!!!

I have not yet had a smoke that's been better than a "good" Cuban, but as soon as I do, I will give it the credit it deserves each and every time. Keep in mind I've only had about 20 non's, but have many more on the way