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Last post 20 years ago by usahog. 45 replies replies.
Say it ain't so Sammy!
JonR Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
That Sosa you gotta love him, he's a real " corker ". Cork: transitive verb - to furnish or fit with cork or a cork. I wonder what his batting average or home runs would be sans cork? What a freakin shame! JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
I hope he is telling the truth.
[email protected] Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
... I don't, nor would I ever, believe that one could not know the difference between a corked bat or legal bat - especially a professional baseball player!!!!

- funny how not too long ago I read an article to the effect of how "Sam" was the baseball version of Tiger Woods and how "Black America" indicated that if "Sam" had been "other than Black" he would have received much more media coverage - let's see how much media he gets now after this scandal....

... it's pretty sad where the media creates such a hostile environment by virtually promoting segregation and always 'insinuating' that there is more to the story than what there really is. Hopefully if “Sam” (name changed to protect the innocent) is guilty – he’ll come clean and stand up like a man and take the consequences in stride. Otherwise, he’s no better than “OJ” or “JJ” in my book. Also – when (if) convicted/charged (whatever) … what group is going to take credit for his existence now? This’ll be interesting to see …
RDC Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
If cork makes the bat lighter, then why don't they just use a lighter bat to begin with?

I am curious as to how long he has been using a corked bat. Will his batting record be followed by an * to denote used a corked bat?
rayder1 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
I'm sure he's broken a bat or two before sans cork.
The cork not only makes a bat lighter, but provides an added ability of the bat to transfer energy to the ball on impact. Sort of like the rubber core in a golf ball. He could use a lighter bat, but that would make it a smaller bat with a reduced sweet spot. Corking gives the same dimensions as a heavier bat but without the weight.

I think, of course, he needs to be punished for his cheat. They shouldn't fine him though. That has no effect on a player of his income level. Hold him out for a dozen or so games and that'll send a stronger message than a few $$.

RDC Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
So do they run cork up the entire length of the bat?

With as many people that have been caught, you'd think by now they'd figure out a way to keep the end on.
I have seen in games past where that is what happened and not a broken bat.

I say give him an Asterisk!
SteveS Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
It's said that the good hitters know where their corked bats are at all times ...

'fraid it IS so
xibbumbero Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
Many do it,he just got caught. X
BeatDragon Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Heres the skinny on corked bats...

A 3/8 inch diameter hole, or bigger if desired, is drilled from the barrel end down thru the sweet spot, roughly 10 inches. Cork, pieces of rubber balls, or whatever is packed into the hole, sealed with wood putty and sanded down as to not show. This is to presumably make the bat lighter and add a substance that allows the ball to come off the bat quicker and travel farther

In truth it does neither!

Studies have been done on corked bats and it was concluded that the process does not alter the speed and distance of a struck ball. In fact, it weakens the bat and makes it prone to shatter as did Sammy's.

Bat corking is psychological. Baseball palyers are the most superstitions athletes around. Hell, some rub chicken bones on thier bats, a process called, yes, "BONEING". Some will wear the same skivies for a week if they think its what got them out of a slump.

Peace out
BD

jd1 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-14-2001
Posts: 3,118
He cheated. Give him an asterisk and hold him out for 15-20 games. Fining has no effect because it's not substantial. Yeah, a lot of people in professional sports cheat so if they get caught they should get raked over the coals for it. You or I would so what's the difference? I have about as much respect for him now as I do for Pete Rose. Zilch. People make mistakes and use bad judgements, so if they really are sincere about turning a new leaf, then asterisk their records and make sure the asterisk is in bold print as in the case of Pete Rose. As for Sammy do the same AND hold him out for 15-20 games.
Mr.Mean Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
I agree with 7 to 10 game....if no other corked bats are found. If there are more (they confiscated 76) His reputation, accomplishments, and respect are gone.
Fatshotbud Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 03-31-2003
Posts: 782
Pete was a different deal altogether. He was a great player caught betting and got a LIFETIME BAN!! That will not happen to "Samual" for a number of reasons. I argue that using a loaded bat is a similar offense at the professional level (IE someone was making money on each at bat for this guy).

As for the corking not making a difference BS! Head or tip speed is the name of that game. Same with golf and hockey. Heck even the foot of a field goal kicker.

On an added note; professional atheletes are role models for our youth. Punishment should be severe but usually never is (hello Daryl Strawberry).
MY opinion - BUD
Charlie Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
I think they should suspend him for 15 to 30 games, this is the only way to make it effective, as the money only hurts if it is big!

His home run marks will always be tainted by this little indescretion. Do not buy that line, "They all do it", because they all do not! This is a bad situation that must be dealt with in a stern manner.

Charlie
RDC Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Years from now people will forget he corked his bat and Sammy's reputation will shine forever.

The only ballplayer still getting screwed is Pete Rose.
choner Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
I don't believe Sosa's excuse, or his excuse on why he had a corked bat in the first place. You know the difference because you reach for the bat you always use.

Also, I do believe many players use steroids too. Just my opinion.

Baseball is one of the most statistic driven sport and these guys will do alot to pad their statistics.

choner
turnberry Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-11-2002
Posts: 915
I'm not an expert on this by any means as it applies to corking bats but if the cavity created when bored out creates the ability for the bat to "flex" a bit in the impact area than it does seem like increased ball velocity is a distinct probability. That is the core of the current hot topic regarding golf clubs (specifically metal driver heads) and has created a whole new industry focused on trying to optimize designs yet stay in conformance with the "coefficient of restitution" limits. In other words spring-face or trampoline effect. And absolutely no question that lighter means a faster bat speed.

I miss Maris, sadly never got to watch Ruth.
BeatDragon Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/06/04/cork_physics_ap/
sketcha Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
He lied. Sorry. He knew exactly which bat he was using. I think his rep may be shot. With our 24hr news society, his story will be well played.
Todog Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 05-05-2001
Posts: 804
I think that they should check the bats used in the "historic home-run" season with Mark McGwuire, that are sitting in the Hall-of-Fame!
Robby Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
You or I could grab the wrong bat by accident, not him. He's a freeking professional. He knew EXACTLY which bat he was grabbing...
Robby Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
"You have a slightly lighter bat and you're going to hit the ball a little less far," said retired Yale professor Robert K. Adair, the author of "Physics of Baseball."

Don't believe everything you read... Force = Velocity * Mass. That's Fizzicks. Lighter bat = more Velocity, if anything it's a wash, but maybe they can get to the ball better because they can swing the bat faster and getting to the ball better = a good hit, just right = longer distance? Dunno, but I do know that Force = Velocity * Mass...
sketcha Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
Isn't that Force = Velocity "X" mass? I'm no mathemagician but I've never seen an asterisk in a physics problem.
rayder1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
I don't buy either of those two professors theories. If what they stated was a fact (proven) then there is no reason for baseball to make a loaded bat illegal.

Hogwash. Okay...how many of you college grads out there have had (countless?) professors feed you their philosophy. You, (knowing they are off track) have to buy into it, and regurgitate it so you get a passing grade. If you challenge their philosophy, figures, theories or research, you will get slammed and may not pass.

I think and hold the same regard for the two professors here. They are physics professors. Probably never spent a day understanding all the intricate details about baseball, the swing, the velocity and kinetic energy transfer and how an individual can change all those figures by his hitting technique.

Did these professors take into account the spin and velocity of a baseball? I bet they did all their figures based upon the energy transfer of a baseball being struck by a moving bat traveling in the opposite direction... no spin, no batter technique...just sterile figures. Did they take into the account the rubber filled chamber dampening the spin, converting it into kinetic energy of its own and adding that to the formula?

A lot of companies put a lot of research into bat construction. Based upon the physics professors S.I. quoted, all the research that DeMarini spent on their core designs and double walled construction of their aluminum bats is wasted.

Loaded bats are illegal in professional baseball for a reason. They just don't make a batter feel better. They actually have an impact on bat speed, hitting distance and reduction of the variables of a pitched baseball.
Charlie Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Sammy KNEW what bat he had! He has not been doing very well this season, and I am willing to bet he was aware of the bat......he may be dumb, but the player knows the feel and weight of each bat. Lame excuse!d

Gig him with a major suspension! They also need to start checking for steriods and body enhancement drugs.
Too many of these guys look like professioal wrestlers today...........go back and look at a picture of Sammy when he was a skinny kid playing for White Sox....for God's sake look at Barry Bonds, his head has grown two hat sizes in 5 years.

Charlie
[email protected] Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
IMHO -

Impulse & Momentum (Center of Mass)

Velocity + Spin of a baseball following the impact with the bat are what determine the trajectory of the ball.

To increase the distance of a hit, the parameters of the impact have to be changed.

The ball’s velocity must be increased for the distance of the hit to be increased - so to accomplish this – one way is to increase the speed/velocity of the bat at the point of impact.

- start swinging earlier (may miss the ball)

- put more energy into the swing and minimize rotational inertia.

The latter comes into play when “corking” = simply placing a lighter material in the core of the bat and reducing it’s mass; thereby minimizing/reducing rotational inertia. Ironically, putting nothing in the bat would be even better (reducing mass even further).

Rules are the bat must be 100% wood; hence, corking is not legal. Ironically enough though, you’ll notice some wooden bats have “hollow ends” … which actually reduces mass in the most effective spot – away from the center of rotation. AND – you can also “shave the handle” – but this has it’s own problems as it weakens the bat and makes it more difficult to grip.

Reduce mass = reduced rotational inertia.

- Increased Velocity at impact + larger mass of bat over ball = increased velocity ball after impact.

BUT - Sammy KNEW the rules and BROKE them - for that reason alone - I think he should lose all Baseball Records that how now holds and have to reimburse the team his salary; use that money for charity or whatever - but that SOB was desperate to get back into the game and make up for lost time.
Mr.Mean Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
76 bats x-ray and scanned. Negative
3 "historical" bats scanned. Negative.
[email protected] Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
Is drinking & driving illegal all the time or only when you get caught?

What if you were sooooooooo drunk that you didn't realize that you killed someone the night before... does that make you NOT responsible for your actions?

How many MILLIONS of dollars does this idiot get paid?

For that kind of $$$$ - you'd think he'd be smart enough to pick the right bat ... bottom line is that he DID have a motive to get his HR's back up to par for the season as he was just back from sitting out how many games due to the toe injury? Also - what in the hell is he doing with a corked bat in the first place anyway? I say BS - he knew better - he is responsible for his actions and if I were allowed to prosecute the SOB - I'd have a plea-bargain on the table where he'd have to disclose "who" corked the bat for him in the first place. Better yet - let's just make all the players in the league sign an affadavit that they will NOT own a corked/illegally modified bat to begin with - NOR will they 'borrow' one for use from anyone else ....

- something like a prenuptial agreement with their contracts ... if you "F" up - you LOSE EVERYTHING !!!

INTEGRITY CANNOT BE COMPROMISED OR WE WILL HAVE NOTHING TO MEASURE US AGAINST OURSELVES
JonR Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
If in fact a player was only using a corked bat in batting practice wouldn't he have more than one incase that bat broke? If in fact a player was trying to sneak a corked bat into a regulation game would he try to sneak in more than one? Historical bats , who in their right mind would take a chance on being caught hitting homerun number 62 or above with a corked bat? JonR
[email protected] Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
... someone with an addiction?

- alcoholics KNOW they should quit -

- druggies KNOW they should quit -

- compulsive gamblers KNOW they can either pay the mortgage & feed the kids or take the chance on losing it all -

- it's a RUSH - an addiction to fame & fortune - cheat to be the best -

Face it - that guy has a problem ....
SteveR@CigarBid Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2002
Posts: 12,746
Did anybody happen to catch Outside the Lines after SportsCenter last night? They interviewed Jose Canseco, who was extremely upset with the way the media was treating Sosa. It was a pretty heated interview that kept my interest late last night. I'm sure you will see or hear of it soon.

Basically, he stated that Sammy is a becoming a severe victim of the media due to his race, and if he were a Mark McGwire or Cal Ripken Jr., things would be different, or even ‘covered up’. Oh, and he continually expressed his strong feelings for himself by stating that he was at one time the greatest player in the world, blah blah blah, and offering countless plugs to his upcoming book.
[email protected] Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
I knew it was only a matter of time before "Race" was an issue ... I plugged that post at the start ...
sketcha Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
If it was Mark I'd be more pissed. That guys arrogant! Sammy seems like a nice guy so I have a little sympathy for him. Fact is though, he got caught. He must be punnished in order to keep the fear up for other players. Gotta have rules and they gotta be inforced.
BeatDragon Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Ok, last time. Corked bats dont help you much.
How do I know this?? TRIED IT! Yes folks I did my own comparison years ago. The corked bat didn't even feel right on contact. No greater distance. Yeah it made the bat a little lighter, but a ball travels farther if you can get a heavier bat thru the zone, even at a slower rate of speed. You can do all your mass x shlemeezles divided protracted veriables times 3.14. Ball didnt go any farther. In fact hit more balls over the 300' fence with the non corked bat.

Its all in the head

BD

sketcha Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
I've heard on the news today that it adds about 1%. So a 400 footer would go 404. Psychological, actual, whatever. Rules say no cork so no cork. We've gotta teach our children well. You lie under oath, you get impeached. You obstruct justice over your shady stock trades you get indicted. You break the rules of pro ball, you take a few games off.
tailgater Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
An asterix (*) is often used to denote the multiplication sign.

Corked bats DO help the batter.
Hollow bats would be best, but they break too often. Corking them helps eliminate the breaking.

Hollow items are more rigid than their solid counterparts (in flex, not compression) Why? Because the hollow core creates twice as many walls to bend.
Copper wire bends fairly easily. Copper tubing of the same diameter does not.
Now, wood is a different animial, but the concept is the same. Plus, the bat is lighter which allows for better timing.
Even though ballplayers are superstitious by nature, they would never risk suspension for a remedy that was only in their head.

Also, Sammy would not ever use a different weight bat in BP simply to make the fans gasp in awe. It would be like a basketball player practicing 8 ft freethrows.

And what would be the likelyhood of Sammy shattering the corked bat on the "first time" he ever used it?

Sammy is good for baseball. I'm glad they found nothing else. But now Sammy has to pay.

I think he may have gone to the corked bat due to his recent inadequacies at the plate. He may not have used one to hit his amazing historical figures, but we'll never know.
JonR Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Actually it should be called hollowed bat as opposed to corked bat. The only reason cork is added is to prevent the umpire from hearing that hollow sound made when the bat makes contact with the ball. JonR
sketcha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
"An asterix (*) is often used to denote the multiplication sign."

I did not know that. Thanks for clearing that up. I was used to a dot and the x but I guess I never did math via keyboard either. Thanks Gator.
Charlie Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
This is not about race! It is about integrity and honor! Sammy soiled the game, and he should pay....simple as that. Sorry, look at Pete Rose, he is white and has been outcast from baseball for years.
Race is not an issue, but some will try and make it an issue.

Charlie
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Jose is simply looking to sell his book.

I've seen no less than three interviews with him over the last couple months where he alluded to "Major" wrongdoings and "Shocking" truths behind the game. He then calmly denies any request to elaborate, simply saying "it will all be in my book".

He's a washed-up has-been who could have been one of the truly greats. Now he'll be filed in the baseball index next to Eddie Gaedel. Nothing more than a sideshow freak whose 15 minutes lasted too long.
JonR Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Well stated Tailgator, I never did like that wife beating, arrogant piece of ****. JonR
Charlie Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Tailgator and JonR I agree with you on Canseco as he had the opportunity to be something really big and special, but blew it in everyway possible, and now he hops on anything that can help him sell his book. What a POS.

Charlie
SteveR@CigarBid Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-19-2002
Posts: 12,746
BeatDragon: Regardless of whether it works or not, it's illegal. There are statistics that show it does work, while other statistics show it doesn't. So, in order to even the playing field, regardless of the statistics, it has been deemed illegal…as it should be.
Fatshotbud Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 03-31-2003
Posts: 782
MLB Gives Sosa Eight-Game
Suspension for Corked Bat
Slugger to Appeal Decision

.c The Associated Press

CHICAGO (June 6) -- Sammy Sosa was suspended for eight games by Major League Baseball for using a corked bat.

The Cubs slugger will appeal the suspension, said Jim Hendry, the team's general manager. The appeal will make Sosa available for a four-game series against the New York Yankees.

"We support him in his appeal," Hendry said. "We have no reason to believe it was anything more than a one-time incident. We will support him and his right exercise and appeal."

The appeal had to be filed before Friday's game so he could play.
BeatDragon Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-28-2003
Posts: 4,754
Steve,

Not debating the legallity of the doctored bat. It IS illegal and should not be used. Its that the corked bat really isnt helping him and the tainted record aspect is silly.
hoagie55 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 03-01-2003
Posts: 909
BD,

Actually a corked bat does help. I thas been scientifically proved that a corked bat will hit a ball further than a solid bat. You cannot deny this even if you did try this out yourself. You did one or two or three experiment(s), whereas the baseball "scientists" have tried this numerous times with each result indicating that it does help carry a ball further.
usahog Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Still Contravery?

Hog
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