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Another Chapter of Administration Shame
jdrabinski Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
How many more chapters of lies and deception need be written by this administration? Hopefully, this is among the last...shame on this callous liars and deceivers.

John

Last week a quietly scathing report by the inspector general of the Environmental Protection Agency confirmed what some have long suspected: in the aftermath of the World Trade Center's collapse, the agency systematically misled New Yorkers about the risks the resulting air pollution posed to their health. And it did so under pressure from the White House.

The Bush administration has misled the public on many issues, from the budget outlook to the Iraqi threat. But this particular deception seems, at first sight, not just callous but gratuitous. It's only when you look back at budget politics in 2001 that you see the method in the administration's mendacity.

A draft E.P.A. report released last December conceded that 9/11 had led to huge emissions of pollutants. In particular, releases of dioxins — which are carcinogens and can also damage the nervous system and cause birth defects — created "likely the highest ambient concentrations that have ever been reported," up to 1,500 times normal levels. But the report concluded that because the outdoor air cleared after a couple of months, little harm had been done.

In fact, the main danger comes from toxic dust that seeped into buildings and remains in carpets, furniture and air ducts. According to a recent report in Salon, businesses that did environmental assessments of their own premises found alarming levels not just of dioxins but also of asbestos and other dangerous pollutants. So the most shocking revelation from the new report is that under White House direction, the E.P.A. suppressed warnings about indoor pollution. Scattered evidence suggests that as a result, hundreds of cleaning workers and thousands of residents may be suffering chronic health problems.

Why was crucial information withheld from the public? The report mentions "the desire to reopen Wall Street and national security concerns." Maybe — though the national security benefits of failing to remove toxic dust escape me. I suspect that there was another reason: budget politics.

Immediately after 9/11 there was a great national outpouring of sympathy for New York, and a natural inclination to provide generous help. President Bush quickly promised $20 billion, and everyone expected the federal government to assume the burden of additional security. Yet hard-line Republicans never wanted to help the stricken city. Indeed, according to an article by Michael Tomasky in New York magazine, Senators Phil Gramm and Don Nickles attempted to slash aid to New York within hours of Mr. Bush's promise.

Matters were patched up sufficiently so Mr. Bush could make his triumphant appearance at ground zero the next day. But then the backtracking began. By February 2002, only a fraction of the promised funds had been allocated — and Mitch Daniels, the White House budget director, accused New York's lawmakers of playing "money-grubbing games."

Why this stinginess? A source told Mr. Tomasky that "Gramm just doesn't like spending money. And Nickles . . . he's just anti-New York." That sums it up: even after 9/11, hard-line conservatives opposed any spending, no matter how justified, that wasn't on weapons or farm subsidies, while some people from America's "red states" just hate big-city folk.

What does all this have to do with toxic dust? Think how much harder it would have been to stiff New York if the public had understood the extent to which Lower Manhattan had become a hazardous waste site. I can't prove that was what administration officials were thinking, but otherwise their efforts to play down the risks seem incomprehensible.

In the end, New York seems to have gotten its $20 billion — barely. As for the additional help everyone expected: don't get me started. There wasn't a penny of federal aid for "first responders" — like those firefighters and police officers who cheered Mr. Bush at ground zero — until a few months ago, and much of it went to sparsely populated states. The federal government spends much more protecting the average resident of Wyoming from terrorists than it spends protecting the average resident of New York City.

All in all, the people running Washington, while eager to invoke 9/11 on behalf of whatever they feel like doing, have treated the city that bore the brunt of the actual attack very shabbily. In September 2004 the Republicans will hold their nominating convention in New York. Will New Yorkers take the occasion to remind them about how the city was lied to and shortchanged?
ajeroth Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-17-2003
Posts: 1,000
http://www.newbie.net/PearlHarbor/casualties.html

Check that link out... How much did they get for being in the wrong place at the wrong time? September 11th was a tradgedy. But I don't think I owe them anything more than my pity at there loss. I hope the Government helps them with there rebuilding and presses on. I'm tired of the sentament in the United States that says somebody owes me something for just about anything bad that happens in my life. I am in no way discounting the loss of life and the horrific circumstances surrounding it. But enough is enough. You know what I want for the loss on the 11th. Blood. Retribution. Fire and damnation. Delivered from the business end of a B-57. Every bomb with a name on it. The name of a New Yorker. Every bomb made by my friend, the Ammo troop. Born and raised in New York city. And come on, how many people live in Wyoming compared to New York.
They can't prevent terrorism any better than a drive by shooting that kills an innocent child.

ajeroth
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,199
John,

Did your cut and paste source article cite the actual report reference to the "quietly scathing report"? I couldn't find it here at the EPA web site related to the World Trade Center attack.(http://www.epa.gov/wtc/)

I did find the Dec 2002 Toxicology report:
http://www.epa.gov/nheerl/wtc/WTC_report_7b3i.pdf

I did find the EPA releases on cleaning method studies:
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/confirmation_clean_study.htm
http://www.epa.gov/wtc/backround_study.htm

I was unable to find the "quietly scathing report" and it might be interesting reading, especially with all that suppression and cover up talk.
Robby Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Surely he used a fair, balanced, unbiased, and impartial source. To do anything less would be scurrilous and self-serving. Professor?
Robby Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Hey, what has the government done for me? What are they giving me? What do I get? Why do I always have to give and give for other to take How is that fair? Oh... I forgot, you're a Socialist, sorry, I won't get the answer I'm looking for out of you..
donutboy2000 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Careful, you may hurt someone's feelings.
Homebrew Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Don't see anything about white house intervention, I did find this.
http://www.epa.gov/oigearth/ereading_room/wtc/wtc_report_press_statement.htm
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
Homebrew Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Here is a link, where the whole report can be downloaded, it's over 3 meg. In PDF format.
http://www.epa.gov/epahome/recentadditions.htm

Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
Homebrew Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
oooopppsss,
wrong url,
here it is.
http://www.epa.gov/oigearth/ereading_room/WTC_report_20030821.pdf
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
jdrabinski Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
It's an NYT editorial (today's issue) based on an EPA report...the EPA is some sort of lefty propaganda machine? Huh? The report source, the EPA, is communist? You wish.

"Hey, what has the government done for me? What are they giving me? What do I get? Why do I always have to give and give for other to take How is that fair? Oh... I forgot, you're a Socialist, sorry, I won't get the answer I'm looking for out of you..."

Not sure why you have to be an ****, Robby. This surprised me. That last part is personal attack, for reasons I don't know. Feel free to explain. I didn't know I should keep you in my 'cbid enemies' dossier.

You get plenty:

Military protection
Education for free for your children and your community's children
Police
Fire Department
Paved roads
Street lights
Social security (if it's still around, you get MUCH more than you put in)
Unemployment insurance if you lose your job (hope you don't)
Criminal justice system to keep you safer than without it

and so on...

You get a hell of a lot, actually.

When 'other people' get things you don't get (welfare, subsidized school lunches, environmental cleanup at the WTC site, etc...very small percentage of the national budget, by the way, very small), you can, if you like, get the satisfaction that your national brothers and sisters are not being allowed to die and starve in the streets because of unemployment, personal tragedy, etc. Or, in the case of this story, safe from a toxic environment brought about in a national tragedy.

In a national tragedy, I think we all need to pitch in to make sure it doesn't claim more victims. Don't y'all see this? By turning their backs on this part of the catastrophe, the Bush administration made more victims for al-Quaeda.

Aren't you outraged? Aren't you embarrassed?

John
Robby Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Sorry, not outraged, not embarrassed, and most certainly not "an a-hole" oh, btw :-) no remarks disparaging individuals (in the guidelines). I wasn't disparaging you. How is this a personal attack?? You openly and freely admit that you're a socialist? How is that disparaging??

And my concerns about "toxic dust" come from a long line of government programs gone awry... Protecting flies and beetles at the expense of the farmers, etc... There are radical environmentalists, and I'm "concerned" when we start talking about federal subsidies for steam cleaning people’s carpets in NYC... Then we’ll be sending our tax dollars to douche out the air conditioners in their cars, then we’ll be paying for q-tips to get the tread patterns in their Air Jordan’s… When does it stop? When we’re out of money? No problem, you’ll just raise taxes!! Now take back that a-hole remark Professor.
phenix007 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-20-2002
Posts: 245
What source could possibly be less credible than the New York Times...proven to have their own political agenda time and again...Do You recall the recent incident asking for negatively bias "insider" take on the Adm....the quote "if it isn't negative toward the administration we won't print it....Give me an unbiased ..creditable source and I'll listen with an open mind...NT Times absolutely requires 2nd source confirmation to have any interest on my part..
ajeroth Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 07-17-2003
Posts: 1,000
At least you said the "Bush Administration"... I don't think every little detail crosses the Presidents desk. He says make it happen and one of his minions does it. Period. If someone makes a mistake they will pay for it. But honestly what good would it have done to cause a panic attack in a city that large. Deny it but don't ignore it, has been a policy of every administration no matter what party. People were exposed to polutants the day it happend. At very high levels. It still has to be cleaned up now. So let them do it. But once again. Are you telling me that Uncle Sam has to foot every bill from that incident? Let the Govt. help New York clean up and move on. They do what they think is appropriate for the situation. Housing, food and employment for that many people would have been a logistical nightmare. The article said that the majority of the pollutants dissipated with time. So don't you think the rest might follow? Sure people ought to be careful after being notified. But they still have smog and air pollutants they breath by just living in that city. I'm not saying the city doesn't need help. But common sense should apply. And it doesn't when dealing with bottle fed outrage and nitpicking by someone trying to sell you something.
I.E. the newspaper.

ajeroth
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,199
JD,

So you cut and paste a New York Times editorial without citing reference and claim that to be evidence of administration shame. Your source is an editorial... now that is a shame and a credibility problem! From an academic community standpoint, is that plagerism or just a copyright violation? From the NY Times standpoint, it is clearly a copyright violation.

Rather than post someone's editorial which makes the claim that the report is "scathing", what you should have done was post the link to the 165 page report which offers suggestions for how the EPA could improve their response to the worst terrorist attack in US history. Shockingly, it turns out the EPA response was not perfect. By posting the link to the actual report, people could then read it and reach their own conclusions on both the EPA and the NYC Department of Health roles and actions.

We really don't need people reading and reaching their own conclusions, do we?

Paragraph 1 from the EPA press release:

"This report, initiated by the OIG early in 2002, found that EPA staff did a commendable job reacting to the unprecedented disaster. Nonetheless, many problems were encountered and changes should be made so that EPA can better respond to future disasters."

Commendable job----Absolutely scathing! I bet the EPA
collectively won't be able to sit down for weeks after being ripped a new one like that!

Homebrew, thanks for posting the link. It really is interesting reading.
funjohnny19 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 74
"In fact, the main danger comes from toxic dust that seeped into buildings and remains in carpets, furniture and air ducts. According to a recent report in Salon, businesses that did environmental assessments of their own premises found alarming levels not just of dioxins but also of asbestos and other dangerous pollutants."

---------
I'm an environmental engineer. I've seen boatloads of environmental assessments, and just about every single indoor air quality test I've ever seen shows alarming levels of something. Whether it's asbestos, particulate matter, or whatever....just about every building is 'sick' in one way or the other.

Given the fact that these tests were taken after 9/11, it's no surprise that there were high levels of all these things!! I read the EPA report on The Toxicological Effects of Fine Particulate Matter Derived from the Destruction of the World Trade Center. The article is correct - It doesn't specifically state the effects on indoor air quality. But you know what?!?? It doesn't specifically state the effects on OUTDOOR air quality either!! Read the executive summary. Very important line - "This research is informative, but it is of limited scope, with a focus on the toxicological effects of a fine fraction of WTC dust from a single exposure. A more complete characterization of potential health effects would include consideration of other size fractions, repeated exposures, additional doses and endpoints, and responses in species or strains of differing sensitivity. It was not possible to assess these other considerations in the present study."

This piece states that the EPA suppressed information about indoor air pollution........

Doesn't sound like they hid anything. The did exactly as they intended. Nothing seems to be 'hidden'.

So why wasn't indoor air quality tested? You know what?? IT WAS!! It was done by consciencious building owners who had the right mind to pay for an assessment. It says that right in the article. So what if their building is found to be contaminated?? Stand in line and wait, unfortunately. Clean-up operations for hazardous waste sites are done on a case-by-case basis. They are too costly to do any other way. My guess is that the conditions of the building aren't any worse today than they were before 9/11. They weren't hazardous waste sites at all. If you can walk in the building, without any equipment, it's not hazardous enough. Dioxins?? I don't know - I'd like to see the test results.

And btw - the best way to eliminate dioxins is through incineration. I don't think building owners want to heat their carpets, furniture and air ducts to 1000+ degrees F, to eliminate the 'high' levels of dioxins. And I don't think they want the government to pay for them to do it either.

A totally politic article - and it uses the worst tragedy in modern American history as it's basis. Sad stuff.

Funjohnny19
HockeyDad Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,199
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/SPECIALS/2003/shuttle/CAIB.report.pdf

You want scathing. This is the link to the 10 mb 248 page Columbia Accident Investigation Board report.
jdrabinski Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Robby, misunderstanding. Remark duly taken back. We put money into saving and protecting lives. The examples you trot out, from out of nowhere and without precedent (classic slippery slope fallacy), have nothing to do with what this article is pointing out.

Phenix, the NYT is wholly credible. The editorial writer is a very respected journalist, not some young buck trying to make a name for himself.

Ajeroth, it was a national tragedy. We as a nation need to step up and help out. Remember how much this country got behind NYC after 11 September? It appears that has faded very, very quickly. Sadly, the tragedy and its effects don't fade so fast. I say Bush administration, but I do mean BUSH HIMSELF. If his underlings do everything, what exactly is he responsible for? His apologists make him out to be an idiot who can't understand what is happening around him and isn't responsible for any of it...damn, we may have common ground THERE. Basic principle of leadership: you are responsible for what your subordinates do. This moron GW has taken passing the buck to new levels...

HockeyDad, is this your first visit here? If copy/paste is copyright infringement, there'll be a lot of cbidders in jail! Please. It is an outrage, yes, that people were/are at such risk when something could have been done, if only the will and concern was there. But it wasn't because, let's be honest here, the Bush people want to score rhetorical points re: 11 September to accomplish goals long held (read up on the neo-con plans for Iraq...). Why are you surprised that an EPA report is bland and uneventful sounding? The reality behind the boring words is pretty mean and bleak.

Funjohnny, it is the Bush people who are using a tragedy for their own purposes, not this article. This article exposes how Bush was about rhetoric re: 11 Sept., not genuinely helping victims. This is one example among many.

John
HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,199
John,

You've staked your claim on being a college professor so you should be fully aware of copyrights and plagerism. The actions of other cbidders regarding cut and paste do not translate to a right for you to do the same, especially when it involves copying another professor's op-ed in its entirety without giving any credit to the author or the publication.

If you wished to read the review of the EPA's actions and write something to further advance your political agenda, you should have done so rather than copy Professor Paul Krugman's op-ed piece. The New York Times will accept an op-ed from anyone so you could have even got it published just like anyone else.

The actual author of the op-ed piece has used a letter-to-the-editor as the means for capitalizing on the 9-11-01 tragedy to advance the political agenda of those seeking to defeat Bush in the upcoming election. You have "gravytrained" on his work and re-published the letter-to-the-editor and attempted to give it credibility as an expose article from the NYT. It is not an article of any kind, it is a op-ed letter-to-the-editor containing one person's opinion without any requirement for basis in fact. You misrepresent what it is to suit your agenda.

Read the EPA report, form your own opinions.

At least the tragedy of 9-11-01 is not forgotten, although it appears to be remembered for all the wrong reasons. Now it is part of the "Anybody but Bush Campaign 2004".

It is unfortunate that politics have deteriorated to this level. The downhill spiral started during the Clinton presidency and has continued into the Bush presidency and picked up speed. The Republicans started it, the Democrats have taken it to new heights, and the Democratic Party is becoming marginalized.
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Sure.
Let's close lower Manhattan until every last trace of pollutant is removed.

Very naive.

Just the other day, one of my daughters asked me why I had to go to work.
Her innocence reflects her age.

How old are you?
jdrabinski Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
HockeyDad, are you REALLY concerned with copyright issues, or are you just fond of non-sequiturs? Seems to me an accurate portrayal of the EPA report and Bush's non-action in response to it. So I posted the editorial. Next time, for your satisfaction, I will provide full Chicago Manual of Style citation following the post.

Tailgater, what are you talking about? I think you mean that people should go to work no matter what. When the air knowingly has high level of toxins? You really believe that? I doubt it.

Explain what you are talking about with your daughter...I'm baffled at the story...makes me feel like I'm stoned and trying to read Alice in Wonderland.

John
HockeyDad Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,199
John,

No I really don't care about copyright issues. You could have gotten permission to reprint had you put in the effort. That would have required you to post proper reprint citation. You will post proper citation from the Chicago Manual of Style only if it suits your agenda. In this case, it did not since declaring the text to be an opinion/editorial piece would have given it less credibility. You knew exactly what you were doing and were consistent. I am concerned about plagerism and deliberate misrepresentation, things college professors should be concerned about as well.

When pressed you declared:

"It's an NYT editorial (today's issue) based on an EPA report...the EPA is some sort of lefty propaganda machine? Huh? The report source, the EPA, is communist? You wish."

Your source is an opinion/editorial. Any information about the EPA being a lefty propoganda machine or communist is not relevant to your source since your source is not the EPA or the EPA report. A misrepresentation by accident or an effort to give more credibility than deserved?

"Phenix, the NYT is wholly credible. The editorial writer is a very respected journalist, not some young buck trying to make a name for himself."

The New York Times is a credible newspaper, correct. The opinion/editoral writer is not a journalist for the New York Times, he is a professor of economics and international affairs at Princeton. Opinion/editorials and letters to the editor generally carry disclaimers to state that the opinions are solely that of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the publication. The credibility of the New York Times is not relevant since your source is an opinion/editorial. A misrepresentation by accident or an effort to give more credibility than deserved?

"it is the Bush people who are using a tragedy for their own purposes, not this article. This article exposes how Bush was about rhetoric re: 11 Sept., not genuinely helping victims."

This was not an article that exposed anything. It was an opinion/editorial in the New York Times stating one person' opinion. This was not a New York Times article that was created and verified by the new York Times' reporters. A misrepresentation by accident or an effort to give more credibility than deserved?

Next time, try posting something like this: "Hey guys, I found this opinion/editorial in the New York Times written by some professor. Give it a read and see what you think of it."

You have oversold this editorial as being much more than it is because it matched your agenda. If you wish to advance your agenda by utilizing the victims of the 9-11-01 terrorist attack, go right ahead. Read the EPA report, write your opinion, and defend it. Put in the effort. I already know where to find Professor Krugman's opinion.

jdrabinski Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Misworded: respected editorialist, not journalist. He writes many editorials. But I suspect you are just harrassing me.

I think the EPA report reports pretty much what the editorial said. Thus I am comfortable saying that the EPA report indicts the president. There is an inference there, one I am comfortable making. Anyone reading the report will draw the inference if not blinded by Bushworship.

Please let me know, by the way, if you find a piece of reporting on political matters that the opposing side (the side criticized by the piece, explicit or implied) doesn't write off as 'opinion piece.' Seems pretty redundant to announce it, as you suggest.

John
HockeyDad Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,199
John,

"if you find a piece of reporting on political matters that the opposing side (the side criticized by the piece, explicit or implied) doesn't write off as 'opinion piece.' "

Your source is not a piece of reporting on political matters. You have already acknowledged that it is an opinion piece. A misrepresentation by accident or an effort to give more credibility than deserved?

Have you actually put in the effort to read the EPA report yet or are you still sticking to Professor Krugman's executive summary? You've cited that the "reality behind the boring words is pretty mean and bleak" and that there is an "inference" to be made to indict the president. I take it then that the actual inked words on the 165 page report don't quite get the job done in conveying your point by themselves, or is that Professor Krugman's point.

Over half (6 of 11 paragraphs) of Professor Krugman's opinion/editoral is on the topic of $20 billion in funding for New York. None of this comes from the EPA report. This has nothing to do with the EPA report. Nevertheless, you have decided that the report matches what the editoral said. Put in the effort and read the report.

Robby Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
HockeyDad, YOU ARE THE MAN!
funjohnny19 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 74
Hockeydad - couldn't have said it better myself. The article makes a claim, then does nothing to back it up. If fact, the writer contradicts himself more than once.

Jdrabinski - your take on this article nicely pulls out the stuff you want to see and not so nicely leaves out one thing.....PROOF. In writing, particularly op-ed or editoral writing, the biggest thing is backing your claim. People don't respond to random thoughts, unless they follow closely in line with their own. I gave your opinion a chance (Bush not helping victims of 9/11), but I'm not buying it. And all you've done since posting this article is blow smoke. I'm having a hard time seeing the fire. Read the EPA report, re-read the editorial piece and come back with something other than a political spin on a very unpolitical subject (9/11). Make your claims, post your articles, and state your opinions - I don't mind the reading.......But you can do a little better than this.

You love making claims, but you need to learn how to sell them.

funjohnny19
funjohnny19 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 74
And blinded by Bushworship?? I actually had to re-read to catch that one. I guess during my first pass, I couldn't see around the Elephant!! I'm probably the least political person around - don't know why.....

It's refreshing to go through life without the blinders on. It eventually leads to an open mind, which also is a refreshing thing.

And jdrabinski....I don't know what Bush did to you, but I hope one day he says he's sorry and that you can forgive him.

What's worse....Bushworship or Bushscorn?
Natsmoker Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2002
Posts: 138
This post is total political Bush bashing BS. Are you from NY? Well I am. In the wake of a devestating attack to thousands of inocent people the Bush administration responded. And in doing so qwelled a countries fears. Reestablished their confidence in it's nations security and also it's ability to respond to such threats.

Whatever information was given or supressed was in the best intrest of this country at that moment in time. It appears you have forgoten the fear, the pain and the desperation of 9/11. I don't think any president could have handled it better. I was no fan of president Bush and did not vote for him. I thought he was an ignorant ass. But on 9/12 his ignorant ass was at ground zero. And I listen to a man speaking to New Yorkers amidst the rubble. It wasn't a speech. There was no political "agenda" to launch (gee let me hide all this info from the New yorkers) It was a display of support and strength and the first spit in the eye of the terrorist who were trying to scare us. Make us affraid to go to work. It said "NY is safe enough for the president to be there". "You f'ers didnt't scare us but you just pissed us off".

I have a great deal of respect for Bush and other political leaders who took charge while others fled. Where was our glorious Hillery hiding? Now those cowards would love to try to make Bush look bad. I don't think it will work, at least not in NY. Nice try.




usahog Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Well Stated and Well Said Natsmoker!!!!

I wasn't in New York the next Day.. I was Busy Loading Iron!!! This Whole Country Went Locked and Loaded!!!

My Emotions through this time were like a highschool kid on Cocaine!!!

A few months later my Sister called me... she said she knew I was shipping out... but to please, do not go with Anger in my Heart, yet with Determination in my Soul!!! it was not until I heard those words from her that I actually started coming down from my adrenalin rush!!!

I know just from the atmospher around my work place my Co-workers were feeling pretty much the same way I was...

Again Great Post Natsmoker!!!!

Hog
tailgater Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
John,
The story regarding my daughter was to show similar innocence for a subject.
She wanted me to stay home and had no idea why I had to leave and go to work.
You want lower Manhattan closed because there are trace amounts of pollutants which may or may NOT be harmful in abreviated exposure.
Furthmore, those "pollutant" levels may be similar in harmful effects as a typical smog filled day even prior to 9-11.
I did not read the EPA report. My assumptions may indeed be incorrect. But based on the information provided in this thread I thought that the concept of closing lower Manhattan was short-sighted and overly cautious. A naive suggestion to say the least.

But I've been wrong before. Heck, I even voluntarily took a philosophy course once....
alsant Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 10-03-2002
Posts: 150
Everyone likes to bash bush , but he did something our previous administration would not do , he reacted with force to the attack on our nation. he showed that we will not just sit by and let people terrorize our nation. he was our leader at a time when we realy needed one the most .
SteveS Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I don't bash GWB ... I'm quite pleased with the job he's done as president ... he's done a hell of a good job facing up to and dealing with the realities of our world ... such a refreshing change from the thread bare liberal fairy tale view of reality that would maybe work if more of the world would just 'make nice' and 'play well with others' instead of running with scissors ...
wer Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2003
Posts: 1,633
Author: SteveS Date: 08/28/2003 02:57 PM

"My take is that we're 'voting' on the wrong issue ... forget voting any individual off the island ... let's vote POLITICS off !!! ... if that were to happen, all that would be left is the cigars, booze, babes and other stuff we DON'T disagree so vehemently on ..."

huh? Thanks for staying neutral in order to maintain the "integrity" of the board.
SteveS Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Wer wrote:
"huh? Thanks for staying neutral in order to maintain the "integrity" of the board."
-------------------------------------------------------

?????
wer Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2003
Posts: 1,633
email sent
wer Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-13-2003
Posts: 1,633
issue resolved

back to your regularly scheduled flame war
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