America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

One of the issues I run into, especially in reading the San Francisco Chronicle, is they tend to target SUV and pick-up owners as the reason for limited fuel supply and high prices.

Hello....your 35 mpg Hyundai is getting the same fuel mileage driving 5 miles in stop and go traffic as my 12 mpg SUV gets driving 25 miles to work each way in no traffic.

I would love to put a blanket over the problem with a solution that I should sell my SUV to save gas prices.

So...let me get this right. If everyone parked their SUV's for 2 weeks, will the fuel prices come back down? Bull crap. SUV and pickups account for only a fraction of a percent of total fuel consumption of this country. Why should I buy an econobox? To be like the enlightened Bay Area folks, such as those who write for the Chronicle?

Sorry....I have horses. Am I going to tie a 3 horse slant load trailer to the back of my Volvo and tow it across the State to a horse show. 'Aint gonna happen. Guess what. My #2 car is going to be what is useful for me and I'll pay for a few gallons more fuel to get there.

While Mr. econo minded is sittng on the side of highway 80 waiting for a chain installer to arrive, I put it in 4wd and wave as I go by. I don't mind puting a few more gallons in. He has to sit there and idle with the heater on while he waits for his chain boy to arrive. I get to make it there. Guess what...heaven forbid, if I slide off the road, run into especially deep snow, mud, rocks etc. I can pass over them without causing $300 damage to the undercarriage of my vehicle.

Okay...so I'm a gas hog. My family activities require the ownership of a large sized vehicle. People in the Bay Area (I have 35 years experience living there) tend to look at an SUV or pickup as a useless waste of gas. Intimidating to have in your rear view mirror. Scary to drive next to etc.( I'm sure there are many other areas of the country where this thought process holds true as well, but I am speaking of somewhere I have been.)

No one ever takes into account that many people own these vehicles because they use them for the purpose they were designed for and they don't keep them in the garage when the immedite need is not there.

There are bigger fish out there than SUV/Pick-up owners causing wasted fuel.

How much? What kind of power/ft pnds?

limoric said:

"There will also be a Hydrogen generator available around then that simply hooks up to your hose and a power outlet so you can fill up right at home."

Will you mind getting the electricity to power that hydrogen generator from a burning coal or uranium? The energy requirements for the Hydrogen generator and the substantial pump to compress the hydrogen will to be substantial.

Without some sort of government incentives, i.e., TAXES, hydrogen burning autos may have a future, but their costs was make the gas prices of today look good.

Gene363,

Can you fill us in on your facts. From what I've read The generator is very efficient, uses less energy than it takes to produce Gasoline, and it is 100% pollution free.

I hope you weren't just speculationg. I find it odd that major car manufacturers, California and the US Government would sponsor a project that would in fact be a worse alternative.

Europe has all ready got some cars and fule stations, no surprise. California and Ontario are the only 2 regions that do as well.

By the way all the facts are on the websit I posted earlier. Good place to get the facts.

RICKAMAVEN said:

"Can you fill us in on your facts. From what I've read The generator is very efficient, uses less energy than it takes to produce Gasoline, and it is 100% pollution free."

Unless they break the laws of physics, it requires energy to break down, water (I assume) into hydrogen and oxygen. Once you have the hydrogen generated, it needs to be compressed, likely into a liquid. Just compressed gas would not give you much fuel capacity. These operations require power. Where is that power going to come from? If you use household 120 volt AC, it is likely generated by burning coal, oil or uranium.

RICKAMAVEN

You mean like GM buying up working electric trolley lines in cities all over the country, e.g., the Red Cars that went all over LA county and out to San Bernardino CA, then replacing them with diesel busses?

Gene363

yes. interesting, we had mass transit at one time. not very much smog, and a lovely place to live. until...

Limoric

Please address my point, what energy source is going to run the generator that creates the hydrogen and places it in a form that can be used in a car?

BTW attacking me is not going to change the fact that it takes power to operate any device that generates hydrogen. A few solar cells on the roof are not going to create enough hydrogen to run a lawn mower let alone a car. Using hydrogen as a fuel is a very attractive, but you have to get the hydrogen and then get it into a form that is useable in an automobile.

RICKAMAVEN

Only if we use methanol in the gasoline.

VBG

Gene,

You are aware that there are robotic, electric lawnmowers that run only on the solar cells that cover the area of the mower (probably less than 4 sq.')?

Gene363,

You seriously didn't read the research, your just attacking yourself. Read the research for GS.

The energy would obviously come from your homes power outlet. And yes most power is produced dirty, although there are cleaner sources. The point is it takes energy to produce gas and energy to produce hydrogen the difference is Hydrogen does not emit pollution. Also the generator stores the gas so it's not like you have to produce it all day to fill up once

What a coincident. I was listening to a radio program while driving my son to the movies. The Guest was talking about how he converts homes to solar power to the point the house produces a surplus that can then be sold back to the grid. And it costs less than most people think. Especially if you use the power to heat your home using less natural gas. Add the car and wow.

Is that good enough for you?

A though just came to mind. The main Car manufacturers are rolling out their Hydrogen cars in 2008 with an appearance in 2004. If I were to produce enough solar energy that I had a major surplus. I could purchase one of Stuart Energy’s larger generators and build a refueling station on my property. I could be very competitive, as my power would cost nothing to produce, except the original investment. Alberta has a lot of Sun throughout the year.

From their website

Studies show that hydrogen is as safe as any fuel. In many circumstances, hydrogen is safer than gasoline as a fuel for passenger cars because it is lighter than air and dissipates very quickly. Installing a hydrogen system in your home would be similar to having natural gas appliances.

In more than 50 years of operation Stuart Energy has demonstrated an exemplary safety record. In addition, the Company is actively involved in the development of national and international standards for hydrogen systems and related technologies through its participation on international committees such as ISO TC 197 (Hydrogen) and IEC TC 105 (Fuel Cells).

To date, some of Stuart Energy's systems have obtained Special Acceptance from CSA International and UL (Underwriters Laboratories Inc.) of Canada. In addition, the fuel appliances meet numerous code requirements for gaseous hydrogen and electrical systems. Some of the Company’s meteorological units meet stringent US military standards. The company is now pursuing international certification of its products including UL and CE (Conformité Européene) Marking.


How much will Hydrogen fuel cost?
Stuart Energy’s current cost target is US$2.50 per kg of hydrogen, a benchmark set by the US Department of Energy. On a heating value basis, a kilogram of hydrogen is approximately equivalent to a US gallon of gasoline. Since fuel cell vehicles are expected to be two to three times more efficient than those equipped with internal combustion engines, this cost is equivalent to a gasoline cost of US$1 per gallon for an equivalent range.


How much water is used to make Hydrogen?
Electrolysis does not require significant amounts of water. The hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water using a Stuart Energy fuel appliance could drive a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle as far as gasoline vehicles travel today on a gallon of gasoline.


What is the efficiency of Stuart Energy's systems?
The efficiency of Stuart Energy’s cell stack is up to 90%, based on Higher Heating Values. Including hydrogen compression and other external losses, the system can achieve up to 85% efficiency on a Higher Heating Value basis.

Hydrogen from electrolysis is economically efficient today. Stuart Energy’s systems can boost the value of excess, non-peak electricity by storing it in the form of useable hydrogen. These systems permit a widely distributed, low cost, low risk and economically efficient solution for a hydrogen-fueling infrastructure. With deregulation of the electricity markets and decreasing capital costs of Stuart Energy’s equipment, this solution will continue to become more economical. Electrolysis solutions add further value through a reduction in the external costs of pollution.


How will hydrogen from electrolysis help the environment?
Significant health costs are associated with air pollution from transportation. Regardless of the source of electricity, Stuart Energy’s solution can help to remove air pollution from the streets and centralize it where it can be significantly reduced.

The ultimate solution to the global air pollution problem is the zero-emissions pathway that begins with renewable and sustainable energy. By storing energy, electrolysis solutions can enable renewable power with improved power quality and operating economics. Renewable energy is no longer a dream - wind power generation is growing rapidly and can produce electricity at four US cents per kilowatt-hour. By the time hydrogen cars are produced in large quantities, the electrical grid will likely be greener and total emissions significantly reduced.