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from a libertarian to the liberals
tonester666 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 05-07-2003
Posts: 1,324
Nope, I am not the libertarian.

The "Bill of No Rights" was written in 1993 by Lewis Napper , a self-described amateur philosopher from Mississippi who ran for a U.S. Senate seat in 2000 as a Libertarian.

"We, the sensible people of the United States, in an attempt to help everyone get along, restore some semblance of justice, avoid any more riots, keep our nation safe, promote positive behavior, and secure the blessings of debt free liberty to ourselves and our great-great-great-grandchildren, hereby try one more time to ordain and establish some common sense guidelines for the terminally whiny, guilt-ridden, delusional and other liberal bed-wetters. We hold these truths to be self-evident: that a whole lot of people are confused by the Bill of Rights and are so dim that they require a Bill of No Rights."

> ARTICLE I:
You do not have the right to a new car, big screen TV or any other form of wealth. More power to you if you can legally acquire them, but no one is guaranteeing anything.

> ARTICLE II:
You do not have the right to never be offended. This country is based on freedom, and that means freedom for everyone -- not just you! You may leave the room, turn the channel, express a different opinion, etc., but the world is full of idiots, and probably always will be ... and like the rest of us you need to simply deal with it.

> ARTICLE III:
You do not have the right to be free from harm. If you stick a screwdriver in your eye, learn to be more careful; do not expect the tool manufacturer to make you and all your relatives independently wealthy.

> ARTICLE IV:
You do not have the right to free food and housing. Americans are the most charitable people to be found, and will gladly help anyone in need, but we are quickly growing weary of subsidizing generation after generation of professional couch potatoes who achieve nothing more than the creation of another generation of professional couch potatoes.

> ARTICLE V:
You do not have the right to free health care. That would be nice, but from the looks of public housing, we're just not interested in public health care.

> ARTICLE VI:
You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim, or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us want to see you fry in the electric chair.

> ARTICLE VII:
You do not have the right to the possessions of others. If you rob, cheat or coerce away the goods or services of other citizens, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and lock you away in a place where you still won't have the right to a big screen color TV, pool tables, weight rooms or a life of leisure.

> ARTICLE VIII:
You don't have the right to a job. All of us sure want you to have a job, and will gladly help you along in hard times, but we expect you to take advantage of the opportunities of part time jobs, education and vocational training laid before you to make yourself useful.

> ARTICLE IX:
You do not have the right to happiness. Being an American means that you have the right to PURSUE happiness -- which by the way, is a lot easier if you are unencumbered by an overabundance of idiotic laws created by those of you who were confused by the Bill of Rights.

> ARTICLE X:
This is an English speaking country. We don't care where you are from. We welcome you here. English is our language and like the one you left behind, we also have a culture. Learn it or go back to the country and the living conditions you were fleeing.


If you agree, share this with a friend. No, you don't have to, and nothing tragic will befall you if you don't. I just think it is about time common sense is allowed to flourish -- just call it "The Age of Reason Revisited."

I liked it.
HarleyDave Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-10-2003
Posts: 1,550
AMEN!!
al'Thor Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2003
Posts: 2,793
wow. double amen.
sketcha Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
Here here!
xibbumbero Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
Que dices? No comprendo,LOL. X
sketcha Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
Damnit! I mean...

Hear hear!
billyjackson Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
Guns....what about guns??!!!!!
al'Thor Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-17-2003
Posts: 2,793
ARTICLE XI (the Texan article): You don't have the right to NOT be shot if you're stupid enough to step foot on my property... how's that?
SteveS Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
---------------------------------------------
On 09/04/2003 at 02:11 PM, sketcha wrote:
"Damnit! I mean ... Hear hear!"
---------------------------------------------

Yes, you do ... and I second your motion !!

jdrabinski Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
These "articles" are ridiculous. Let me respond briefly to all ten:

I. Strawman argument. Please show me (link to an article, opinion piece, or some sort of evidence) someone who actually says this. If you are critical, be critical of something people actually believe. This is just a stupid comment, otherwise, criticizing something that isn't actually a belief. Wow. I can make **** up and refute it all day. That's called mental masturbation. Not really so impressive.

II. No one said we should all be free of offense. Again, please show me someone who says what is being criticized here. "Free from offense" is different than, say, teachers or bosses being free to say ****, ****, ****, bitch, ****, white trash, or whatever other stuff this author apparently wants to be able to say. Words do have consequences beyond just 'that makes me offended.' Again, SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO SAYS THIS.

III. Does that mean companies can manufacture dangerous objects without regulation or responsibility? The author's example (screwdriver in eye) is not an actual case or in any way relevant. Rhetorical trick. Nothing interesting or insightful.

IV. Again, this is just not relevant to facts. The average stay on welfare is just under eight months. Plus, I am curious what this author thinks we ought to do with people in rural areas or abandoned parts of cities. Sometimes there just are not jobs. In fact, anyone who has studied the structure and necessities of capitalism would know that it necessitates a certain percentage of unemployment in order to keep labor costs low. We set up a system that requires unemployment. We will always have unemployed people. Should they just be homeless? Again, the author scores rhetorical points without thinking seriously about the issue...a very complex issue.

V. Poor people and unemployed people should just suffer disease, even when wholly treatable, just because they are poor or unemployed? Again, our economic system produces a percentage of unemployed and poor, of necessity...doesn't matter how hard EVERYONE works, we will always have poor and unemployed. We could all have two PhDs and an MBA. Some of us would still be unemployed. It is built into the system. What does that say about us as a society if we let those people suffer unnecessarily? Bad things, methinks. We are the only first-world country without a national health-care system. A real embarrassment and moral failure on our part. The rest of the world does it. Why can't we? Are we too dumb? Or just too selfish?

VI. No one thinks it is 'OK' to commit those crimes. The author suggests that rejecting capital punishment is akin to approving of violent crime. He should be ashamed of himself for that. I find the insinuation offensive. What many people think (many states in the union and nearly all first world countries) is that killing a person is wrong in principle, so the death penalty is wrong. Just because I don't want someone executed doesn't mean I find those crimes any less abhorent. It does mean that I won't let the viciousness of criminals drag me down to their level of immorality.

VII. False portrait of prisons. Anyone who has been to a prison--I used to do prison counseling--knows that it is a brutal place that grinds the humanity out of everyone who has to live there. If you think television or some weights make it 'fun' to be locked up, then you are out of your mind. Take those things away? Damn. I suggest YOU go try to control the prisoners yourselves! The wardens and workers all know that those things are important to keep prisoners calm and peaceful.

VIII. I am curious what this 'help you along the way' thing is all about. What the hell is he talking about? Women on welfare can't go to college and keep their benefits; education in the prisons has all but been cut. Federal and state aid for tuition continue to be cut. Poor people go to substandard schools without enough books, teachers, and so on...hell, Oregon had to cut its school year down! We could do a lot, lot more, but we don't. Why not? Because we'd rather have more money in the pockets of the rich (see Bush tax-breaks).

IX. See my initial remarks above: who actually says 'I have a right to happiness'? Please provide link to evidence. SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY SAYS THIS. The author has created a false position to show himself the superior (strawman argument). Problem is, he has only shown himself to be superior to the person he created who does not exist. Whoopee! How impressive! You are better than someone you made up to be the bad guy! Absurd.

X. Please show me where it says, in any legal document at the state or federal level, that english is the official language of the USA. I am aware that the majority speak english. I friggin' live here, so that doesn't help me. What is his fear? That a sign might be in a language he doesn't understand someday? Deal with it. If someone doesn't learn english, well, then they'll deal with it and the consequences. It really isn't his business what language a person speaks.

I don't call this the Age of Reason. I call it the Age of Empty Words and Bad Arguments.

John
jjohnson28 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Makes sense to me tonester666!
Robby Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Woo Who!! I'm with you JJ!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
Makes PERFECT sense.
billyjackson Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
JD,

I know I'm asking for it, but what the hell...

Stop taking yourself too seriously. You mean to tell me that the thing you are pissed off at the most is faulty logic? That's all you gripe about! Of course, you are going to come back and say that you hate ill-informed or non-informed opinions that have no (perceived by you) factual basis or logical trajectory.

Seems to me that you think yourself much more important than you are. But that's just my ill/non-informed opinion with no factual basis or logical trajectory.
Billy
RobertParrott Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-27-2001
Posts: 344
Hey John,

Why don't you just go away and shut the F*** up!

And as I always say " Those that can do.... do those that can't TEACH"
tonester666 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 05-07-2003
Posts: 1,324
Oh my. Someone is extremely long winded and has way too much time on their hands.

I would refute your comments but I have many more important things to do.

I'll give you this come on up to St Louis and I will personally introduce you to some inner city folks who firmly believe #1. At least the ones who are not in JAIL.

How can anyone who's name ends in ski take themselves so seriously??? Don't go off the deep end here bud my grandfather came to this country from Poland.

If you want a conversation e-mail the author.

Hey good one Ethan. I keep my guns and ammo within easy access.
jdrabinski Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Well, I was trying to engage in intelligent discussion, giving a detailed response to a common mass-email list. Would folks prefer cut-and-paste only, rather than original thought?

An intelligent response, rather than '**** off' (are you a child?) or some trope about teaching being a worthless profession (give me a break; you couldn't do what I do), would be vastly preferred.

Not sure how to post here. I play the insult game, the response is 'you make everything personal.' I respond in detail, the response is 'you take things too serious.'

I'd prefer a thoughtful response instead of dismissive bull****. Is that so much to ask?

John
DrMaddVibe Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
Let go of the Eggo's!

I smell burned waffles!

John, how can you in good conscious debate get all flustered, when you've managed to denegrate everybody? Once again we all get "preached" down to by somebody that NEEDS to have it both ways. If you can't see the freaking humor and common sense in the original post then you've got a LOT more going against you than your bad attitude!
jdrabinski Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
DMV,

I've never denigrated folks on this thread. Heated debate that got personal? Yes. Sometimes too personal. But never denigration.

I don't think the list is humorous. I believe it is supposed to be taken seriously, insofar as it tries to appeal to common beliefs and intuitions. I think those beliefs are wholly false and mistaken. So I detailed how I believe that to be the case. If the list is supposed to be 'common sense,' then that common sense is flat out wrong.

This sort of email list is common (I've seen it many times), so I wrote my thoughts on it. How do I preach down? Please explain. I am serious here...I wrote out my thoughts. They express what I think are true things. Is assertion of belief tantamount to preaching down? I hardly think so.

John
DrMaddVibe Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
Gimmie a break.

Look at what you wrote and then cry some more about what Mag "supposedly" did to you? You don't think that those terms of endearment weren't meant to inflict pain on the reader? What is this some more of the Good John/Bad John crud you were trying to pass off before?

Do us all a BIG favor, dissapear! Take all of your racist and bigoted remarks with you too. There's no need to show the entire world how incredibly "smart" you are when you choose to behave in an infantile manner.

You're a fraud to anyone with a working mind!
jdrabinski Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
DMV, if you want to talk about the Mike stuff, email me. You've only heard Mike's side.

Frankly, I find your post here a kind of pouting. You don't like the way I write or my views, so you name-call with words like 'infantile.' Try responding to the issues. That's what I did here, keeping things straight and political. I was hoping for some interesting debate and discourse from Cbid folks...yes, including you.

Please explain any bigoted or racist remark you think I've made. Actually, you can't, because such remarks do not exist.

John
jjohnson28 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
All together now folks...B-L-O-W H-A-R-D!

BTW JD as far as stalking you at CW? I'm on just about all the boards at one time or another I've been a member there about as long as here,almost three years.The only reason I haven't responded to you over there is you don't seem to come off as such an A$$ as you do here.You are just as long winded and self obsorbed though.Have a nice day!

JJ
DrMaddVibe Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
I will not email you.

You were asked out in the open to show/prove those emails and you couldn't or wouldn't!

I won't be swayed by your stance that you got caught up in the "heated" discussion. Your written words speak volumes about what is in your heart and mind.

Shut up and go away!
billyjackson Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
jd,

For someone as intelligent as you are (I assume you hold a Ph.D. in philosophy), you sure do hide it well. Maybe you should sell cars...because the last thing you want is intelligent conversation...you want a fight. You are like a Black Belt who wants to spar with Green Belts. You just want to entice someone in so you can philosophize the hell out of them. I used to be you (minus the Ph.D.). You are the worst kind of philosopher...you are a sophist!
jdrabinski Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
jjohnson,

Whatever. CW doesn't do politics; just cigars. I'll consider long-winded and self-absorbed to be a compliment. Thanks. You might have to consider the idea that I am not an ass, in fact, and am a pretty normal, decent person.

DMV,

I explained in previous posts about Mike's racist email. Why you can't understand that explanation is beyond me. Or perhaps you just won't listen or would never believe anything I say...I suspect that this is the case. You routinely drop insults and accusations about these past events in threads, but never email me privately to discuss. There is a lot to that story that would surprise you.

I won't shut up and go away. I like political discussion and will get involved in debates here if I want to, got it?

John
DrMaddVibe Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
This doesn't pass for discussion...

"No one said we should all be free of offense. Again, please show me someone who says what is being criticized here. "Free from offense" is different than, say, teachers or bosses being free to say ****, ****, ****, bitch, ****, white trash, or whatever other stuff this author apparently wants to be able to say. Words do have consequences beyond just 'that makes me offended.' Again, SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO SAYS THIS."

That is disgusting. You of all people, you the patron saint of thinking people know EXACTLY what type of reaction your words would TRY to bring out. So far your "bait" hasn't worked. That says a lot for everyone that thinks this is their private den, their refuge from crap like THAT.

Just more waffling. You schtick is old, and by the looks of this thread...you've managed to show everyone on this board that you're a hot head with little words. Easily provoked into what you describe as "heated discussion". Names or name-calling isn't a discussion.

If you're going to stay...then keep up your brand of posting and PROVE to everyone that you ARE a bad example of a human being.

You want syrup?
billyjackson Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
One day a jdrabinski and his mother were walking through the park. JD sees a couple having sex on a park bench and asks his mom what they are doing. The mother was so shocked that she blurted out, "Nothing son, they're just making a cake..." Later on that afternoon, she took JD to the zoo. As they approached the monkey cage, JD looks up to see two monkeys going at it and again asks his mother what they're doing. She replies, "Nothing son, they're just making a cake..." The next morning, the mother was making breakfast. When JD woke up, he came into the kitchen, looked at his mother, and said, "Mommy, you and daddy made a cake on the couch last night." The mother was shocked and asked the son how did he know... he simply replied, "Because I ate the icing off of the cushion!"
jdrabinski Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
billyjackson,

You definitely misunderstand me. We aren't doing philosophy here. We are debating politics. I respect anyone's contribution to political debate...vehement disagreement is actually a sign of respect, in my book. It shows that one takes another serious enough to respond.

A sophist! Damn! That is the ultimate insult to philosophy types! LOL!

John
billyjackson Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
JD,

of course I misunderstand you...because if I understood you, I would certainly agree with you...

....correct?
jdrabinski Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Explain why that is disgusting, DMV. I have no clue what you are talking about.

And I don't see much 'hotheaded' posts by me on this thread.

billyjackson, I really don't know what to say. A story about how I ate my father's ****? Uh, ok. Whatever.

John
billyjackson Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
At least I stumped you...I consider it a small victory.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
The mere fact that you have to reach into the gutter to converse your thoughts is disgusting enough. The mere notion of how you become enraged if somebody calls you or someone you love one or all of those names you used is pure hyprocsy on your part!

How's 'bout that syrup to "sugar-coat"?
jdrabinski Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
I am not using those words, DMV. You know that. I put them out there as examples of how words do more than 'offend.' The author, and many others, decry this supposed attitude of 'I have the right to not be offended.' But the sort of acts (speech codes and the like) the author implcitly refers to address the words I listed. Why are those codes wrong? That was my point. It was obvious I didn't use the words with intent. I listed them so that they register their disgust and shock, causing the reader to reconsider the 'common sense' of the original post. (When we discuss them in abstract, we lose touch with how vile they really are). Those words are the reason for the kind of actions the author implicitly critiques. If that was unclear...I do apologize.

What are you talking about with this syrup thing? I'm baffled.

John
billyjackson Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
Strike 2, JD...stumped again...stumped again!
usahog Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Hey Tonester, your in St Louis? your down the street from me!!! I'm here in Central IL. and frequent to St Louis quite a bit... we should hook up sometime for a smoke!!! and also drop me an email and I'll shoot you some Info on the upcoming LOLH 3 Land Of Lincoln Herf 3 coming up next month.

Hog
DrMaddVibe Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
You're baffled?

No, you're waffled. Once again.

"A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, in a most peculiar way" - Mary Poppins
jjohnson28 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
OK thats it I'm leaving! Mary Poppins verse disturbs me in a most peculiar way...LOL
Cigarick Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
I'm just trying to figure out how or why a college professor has the time (or even the inclination) to debate this or any kind of silliness on a cigar forum.
Cigarick Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
> (give me a break; you couldn't do what I do)

LOL! What--get three months off for summer vacation, get two weeks off for Christmas vaction, get one week off for Easter vacation--sorry, 'Spring break'--get every friggin' holiday in the book, not to mention 'Teacher In-service days,' etc. INCLUDING teacher's aides, interns, CAE, an 8 AM 'til 4:30 PM work day (or earlier from HS and back), plus free period...

Yeah, life is tough out there in the trenches.
Mrs. Usahog Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-06-2003
Posts: 405

How can anyone who's name ends in ski take themselves so seriously???

Hey Tonester666....My maiden name ends in SKI and my grandfather came over from Poland....So watch it!!!

You might want to ask you grandfather...what happens to a guy when he pisses off a full blooded polish red head.....LMAO!!!! All in fun...not trying to threadjack.

Mrs. Usahog


jjohnson28 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Daaaamn! Sure be a lot of pollocks in here...LOL
















Ha ha! Swedish/British on my fathers side(Johnson),German/Polish on my mothers.Being from the Farm Belt of South Dakota I've been to my share of polish wedding receptions.Dated some redheads too Whoooo Hooooo!
Mrs. Usahog Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 02-06-2003
Posts: 405
JJ,

That gets me to thinking....Hog and I eloped... we never had a reception.....so what kind of reception would a polish red headead preachers daughter and a harley riding military man have???

My Daddy would be ashamed of me!!! LOL

Mrs. Usahog

Homebrew Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
Mrs. Hog,
Probably a great reception. I've been to my share of Biker parties, they are a blast, as far as the preachers daughter part, it would be interesting seeing the interaction between your fathers congregation and the bikers. Most bikers, I know, would show respect, for awhile, out of deference to the couple, and the congregation would probably leave early, as bikers make many people nervous, then the party would really get going. I have also been to military parties, much like bikers they show respect when needed, but they really no how to party, when the fuddy duddys leave.
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
P.S. My only transportation, for 9 years, was a motorcycle. 1957 Indian Chief. I didn't do much travelling, and there was always grease under my fingernails. Good thing I worked within walking distance.
Robby Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
John,

“I. Strawman argument. Please show me (link to an article, opinion piece, or some sort of evidence) someone who actually says this. “ I don’t understand your response. How can this be a “straw man argument?” (two words :-) The poster is simply indicating that the Government is not compelled to take money from me and give it to someone else for the purpose of making them more comfortable. What could possibly be wrong with this?


“II. No one said we should all be free of offense.” Ok, Howard Cosell said when announcing a Redskins game, “look at that little monkey run” when calling a play. He was referring to Darrel Green, one of the greatest defensive backs of all time. He was running back a kick and artfully dodging, cutting, and weaving. Cosell had no animas in his comment, he meant no racial epithet, yet he was run out of town on a rail and lost his job as a broadcaster. Had he made the same remark about a white player, or an Asian player, no one would remember. People were offended, many people are offensive and intentionally try to provoke an argument, others just misspeak, but it seems many people are teetering on the edge of an emotional breakdown waiting for someone to say something that upsets them so they can throw themselves on the floor in an apparent state of apoplexy. Note, this example uses a racial analogy, but this issue is not limited to racial issues.


“III. Does that mean companies can manufacture dangerous objects without regulation or responsibility?”
Specious. Do you dispute that there are a myriad of bogus lawsuits on any given day brought by greedy bottom feeders? Of course people should be able to sue for legitimate issues and receive compensation, but John? Pick your battles! This is one you can’t possibly win.


“(No free food and housing) IV. Again, this is just not relevant to facts. The average stay on welfare is just under eight months.” Do you deny that people, some people? Any people? Take advantage of the system and or are lazy? I watched a 60 minutes episode where these poor downtrodden people in New York City were compelled by the government to work if they received money (workfare). They were literally squealing like Ned Beaty! They happened to be black, but again, I don’t believe this is a racial issue. They were decrying their fate and saying this was “modern day slavery” (see Article 2)… I didn’t see any chains, no “walkin boss”. In fact, they were free to leave anytime. All they had to do was get a job!! And they were only required to work a small portion of the time, 10 or 20 hours.


“(free health care)V. Poor people and unemployed people should just suffer disease, even when wholly treatable, just because they are poor or unemployed?” Where does it stop? Define “wholly treatable”? Kidney failure is wholly treatable, a transplant fixes the problem, then there’s the anti-rejection drugs and follow-up. We could take care of the problem for a couple hundred thousand. Anyone can walk in to a hospital with an emergency and be treated; they can’t be turned away. Public/Government healthcare fits your dogma because it is by definition Socialism and you are a Socialist. It shouldn’t be hard for you to understand that people who are not Socialists believe differently about womb to tomb care and feeding of the proletariat…


“VI. an eye for an eye” Polly Klass…

“VII. Prison life”, yes it’s brutal, but it’s filled with brutal people. And they do have 3 squares, TV, reading, exercise, air conditioning, etc… I’m not for torturing people but incarceration should be uncomfortable…If they need to be kept calm, drug them.

“VIII. Jobs and education” Washington DC spends more per-capita per pupil than any other school district in the country and has one of the worst records… It’s about more than money, I already pay 50% or more in taxes, how much should I pay to educate your children? The simple fact of the matter is that EVERYONE cannot be educated. EVERYONE cannot be a doctor, lawyer, or an engineer… Some folks are better suited to flipping burgers, laying bricks, picking up the trash. There’s nothing wrong with that.


“IX. See my initial remarks above: who actually says 'I have a right to happiness'? Please provide link to evidence. SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY SAYS THIS. The author has created a false position to show himself the superior (strawman argument). Problem is, he has only shown himself to be superior to the person he created who does not exist. Whoopee! How impressive! You are better than someone you made up to be the bad guy! Absurd. “

Rant… It is the cumulative effect of, “you owe me, you owe me, and you owe me” which adds up to, “you owe me happiness” We don’t’ owe anyone happiness, they have the right to pursue it, that is all.


“X. Learn the language”, John one of the things that helped to make this country great is having a single language (note, one of the things). Look at the former USSR, they had dozens of languages and dialects throughout their vast country. The same is true for China. It complicates things. It virtually turns it in to multiple countries or fiefdoms. And it breeds separatism. Having a common language is a fundamental building block for a functioning society to grow and prosper. Look what happened at the tower of babble.

=====
John, the reason no one took the time to dispute your ascertains is because it took time to dispute your ascertains. The poster did a C&P, you’ll notice that most of the responders were succinct. You typed a missive… Next time, pick a point if you’d like to debate, and you’ll have better luck.

p.s., Mrs Hog? got any good jokes? hehehe
tonester666 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 05-07-2003
Posts: 1,324
Robby exactly right. I read this liked it and simply decided to share it. I have much better things to do than debate this(although I did think about it).

USAhog - what is you addy. I actually live 30 miles East of St Louis in St Jacob. I work downtown.

Mrs. USAhog my grandparents came straight from the old country. They are skis also.
Mrs. Usahog Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 02-06-2003
Posts: 405
Homebrew,

My dad would have a blast. He was deemed the meanest man in the state of Missouri. The judge gave him two options...either leave the state are face the penitentiary. He would just sit around and tell his stories..LOL He now is 61 and really laid back compared to his younger years.

I probably would have had two receptions....LOL One for the family....and one for the friends. It would be like sneaking out the window late at night...hoping the parents wouldn't catch you...LMAO!!!

Mrs. Usahog

Mrs. Usahog Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-06-2003
Posts: 405
Tonester666,

O Gees...we might be related..LOL

My family settled in the E St. Louis/St. Louis area. This is my home area. I also have family in the St. Jacob area.

Hogs email is: usahog at hotmail dot com

Mrs. Usahog


SteveS Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
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jdrabinski Date: 09/05/2003 12:10 AM Reply

jjohnson, CW doesn't do politics; just cigars.

DMV, I explained in previous posts about Mike's racist email. Why you can't understand that explanation is beyond me. Or perhaps you just won't listen or would never believe anything I say.
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Actually CW DOES have a political forum ... but, you have to have been an established member there for a year AND have a completely filled out profile before you can apply for access to that forum. That policy allows them to cull the wheat from the chaff and preclude the very sort of problems that plague this forum ...


BUT ... more to the point ...

Joh, on more than one occasion, the subject of Mike having SUPPOSEDLY sending a racist e-mail has been brought up ... yet, not once has there been ANY substantiation of his having been the author ... in an effort fo adjudicate the subject, I arranged for a fair and impartial judge to examine whatever evidence existed ... NONE was produced ...

John, if you think calling you a sophist is a tough blow ... how 'bout this?

I am flat out telling you I think what you have done in accusing Mike of racism is EXACTLY what Senator McCarthy did in the 50's, when he accused people of being communists and fellow travelers WITHOUT any evidence ... tarring them with a label that unfairly stuck with them ... YOU, sir, are IMO not only no better than Joseph McCarthy, you are his EXACT equivilent ... you are guilty of exactly the same sort of abhorent behavior ... I find it completely and utterly appalling that with no evidence whatsoever, you have said in the past (and as recently as today continue to say) that this man is the author of ONE of what you said was MANY racist mailings you have received ....

In short ... put up or shut the hell up
Tobasco Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

jdrabinski

I've read quite a few posts now with you still going on and on about Mag. You seem to be a smart fellow, except in this matter.

I've read a few posts asking you to show some proof of what you have accused mag of, you wont do it. Why?

Calling someone a bigot over and over again without POSITIVE proof is a joke. And your posting priviledges should be taken away.

Be a Man, and either post the proof, or drop it. I'm surprised Mag hasnt looked into an attorney to find out what the slander laws are concerning the internet.

Quit making US listen to YOUR continuous whining about something that happened over 2 months ago. I'm sick of it, and I bet I'm not the only one.

Grow up and act like a professor, if you really are one.
jdrabinski Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
I did not bring up Mike in this thread. I actually tried to discuss politics in detail (too much, perhaps...Robby is right, I think). If anyone wants to converse about Mike, I have (and will continue to) offered to discuss it via email. I did not bring up the issue in this thread; that was DMV, so direct your criticisms, at least in part, toward him.

[email protected] is an operating email address for the next few months.

SteveS, others...email me if you want to discuss this. I am more than willing. I've explained myself countless times, but it seems no one read it or remembers.

John
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