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No tax for Indian Gaming in CA
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Tobasco Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Sep 26 2003, 9:00 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

I think its about time that the Indian Casinos start paying income tax. They are making billions and no tax.

If we are trying to eliminate racial preferences, how can this be fair? When did any other minority recieve these tax exemptions?

Arnold says, that if elected, he will change this, and get the Inian Casinos to start paying their fair share.

I agree, whats your take on this?

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Sep 26 2003, 9:04 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

One point I forgot to mention. CA is one of the few states that dont tax Indian casinos. This isnt anything new.

Mag
dz130 Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Sep 26 2003, 9:04 PM EST
Joined: 08-22-2003
Posts: 781
Everyone pays or no one pays.
xrundog Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 4:15 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
The arguement is, that the Indian Reservations are sovereign territory. That's by treaty with the US Government. If they are sovereign, they don't owe ca. any more than say....Idaho does.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 5:21 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
x

once again you are correctamundo.
usahog Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 6:22 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
what X said... and that is in Every State in the Nation that has an Indian Reservation... if a person doesn't like how the Indians don't have to pay taxes... don't support their Casino's... personally I love to play 7 card stud at Indian Casinos every chance I get... look at it as the Indians getting their Land back!!!!

Hog
B Naked Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 6:54 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2003
Posts: 85
Personally I think if they want to be considered separate from the rest of the country, they should be allowed. But then they should stay on their reservations, and not use the highways, beaches, amusement areas, etc. that the rest of us have to pay taxes to keep up. That may be narrow minded, but they choose to be part of this country every time they leave the reservation. The should help pay for the upkeep like the rest of us.
usahog Offline
#8 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 7:01 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Brandon H.. that is Tunnel Vision not Narrow Minded!!!!! The Indians WERE this Country long before your's or mine's Ansestors ran them into Those Reservations!!!!!! I don't think the simple Tax Break they Get is enough to resolve What We White Men have done to the Indians.... Aces over Eights... your Call??

Hog
B Naked Offline
#9 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 7:16 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2003
Posts: 85
I hate to hear us grouped as "we white men". Personally, I had nothing to do with what happened to the indians(I also didn't have any slaves either). Bad things happen along the history timeline. I wish they didn't, but they do. "we white men" have done a lot of bad things in the past. But we've also done a lot of good things. I just personally feel if you want to use the roads, beaches, vote, whatever this country allows you the freedom to do, you need to support that right financially like the rest of us. If you want to be separate, then you should be separate. I certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone. My apologies to anyone that might be offended by this.
Tobasco Offline
#10 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 7:37 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Hog, I disagree. Should we give California back to Mexico too? They were here first right? How about Texas? Mexicans were there first too.

I like Brandon's points and agree with him. How many generations should pay for something that they werent any part of? In my opinion, none.

If I were an Indian, I would want to make it on my own. I'm an American-Mexican. I've never used my racial background to succeed in life.

I own my house, my business, other rental property, and plan to retire in 10 yrs. I'll be 45 in January. In this state I could have easily recieved assistance to do ALL these things, but I did it on my own.

If I can do it, so can anybody. I have a highschool education and 1 yr at a technical trade school to learn transmission repair. I've kept my nose to the grinding wheel, and it is paying off!

Mag
usahog Offline
#11 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 7:58 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Well Mag... Mine Yours and Yours Generations should Pay for them Being Alianated right out of the Very Lands We Stole from them... Why... because they have Legal Document Treaties giving them the Rights... to not be Taxed on the Legal Lands set asside for their Living.... and just like Every American the "True Americans" have a right to use everything the rest of us are intiteled to!!! IE Railways,Roadways,Walkways.. ETC....the Mexicans Sold the Properties your speaking of... we didn't Steal them from them....

I do not blame you for your Lack of Knowledge on the History's of this Country... but please because of that Lack of such... Don't Blame the Indians and want to take away from them what was rightfully givin to them!!!!!

Ohhhh and IMHO... I'm Glad they kicked the Living **** out of Custer... I'm sorry for the men under his ranks... but Custer was a "Yes Man" and he got his deserves!!!!! Custer STOLE.. Furniture from the Departed President Abriham Lincoln during the Move from Whitehouse back to Illinois for Mary Todd Lincoln.... a Thief while the Country was still in Morning over a Lost President and Lost Lives at the end of the Civil War.....He got his Just Rewards!!!!

Hog
usahog Offline
#12 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 8:02 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
So Brandon let me get this Straight..
"I just personally feel if you want to use the roads, beaches, vote, whatever this country allows you the freedom to do, you need to support that right financially like the rest of us." your saying that if they do not Monitarly contribute then they don't have the Rights as the Rights as free Americans to take part in a "Givin Right" (Not a Monitary Right) by the Very Same Constitution you, I and they fall under???
thats almost a Marxist Statement!!!! where's the Freedom and the Justice in your Statement???

Hog
usahog Offline
#13 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 8:14 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
also Mag... don't catagorize all American Indians like there scum or something... there are Many of them who do not live on reservations... there are many thousands maybe Millions of them who pay taxes and work and raise their family's and fight in every War/Conflict this United States has been in... Remember Ira Hayes.... you can catagorize them as an old Indian Chief I did an Interview in School with years ago did... they have Apples... Red on the outside and White on the in.. then they have True American Indians... such as Ira Hayes and Millions of others... then you still have your war party Indians... and then their are the Other Indians like what we White Men call Welfare Recipients... and with most of these they are the Apples.. they feel the US Government Owes them everything... and they are the one's who give the rest of the Tribes a Bad Name....

Personally... he was a straight shooter as you will find with Many American Indians I have met through my lifetime.... You can learn allot from the Heritage of the American Indian and also the Canadian Indians as well.... but a person has to put into their thought patern a hell of allot further then their Wallet....

Hog
Tobasco Offline
#14 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 8:22 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809


Hog, I thought there was a war in there somewhere, not just the sale of land by Mexico. But you are correct, I'm not an expert on American/Mexican history.

I dont think their land should be taken away at all. I just think its time to start paying taxes. Why are Indians in other states paying taxes, if this treaty you speak of is the law?

My Grandfather had no part of the Indians losing their land, neither did my dad or myself.

I think that so many people that live in this country, have been here for maybe only 2 or 3 generations. All this Indian stuff happened before they even came here too.

I dunno, I guess I just believe in independence, and the freedom to make it or not on your own.

I personally dont want help from anyone because of my race. When its all said and done in my life, I will have the satisfaction that it was my brainpower and persistance that made me successful.

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#15 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 8:31 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Boy Hog, where did this come from?

I quote "also Mag... don't catagorize all American Indians like there scum or something... there are Many of them who do not live on reservations" end quote.

SCUM?!!You put it that way, not me. I have nothing against Indians at all. I have nothing against any minority or race. So DONT start in like JD with this racial bullcrap, cause then you will piss me off.

In fact I'm outta here on this one cause I feel the BP rising after that comment. I hope you just mispoke on that one cause its freakin BULL****!!!

Mag
usahog Offline
#16 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Mag.. we got the same Problem with "White Men" LMAO!!! I like those words... LoL...those who do not want to commit to Society... thats their Choosing...Just don't stand in the way of those who do Commit... IE.. their Gaming Casino's... Don't contribute to them if you feel wronged about it... there are Thousands of others who will... and that moneys goes to make up the differences (Supposed to Subsidise the living on the Reservations) watch the Movie Married to the Mob... it's funny but also true....

Alaska as a State was also Purchased....

anyways yes they have their Treaties with the US Government... and yes "Our Ancestors" wrote these out for the American Indians... there is not a Date on them when they Expire... and so how it may make you feel... blame it on your Ancestors... Not the American Indians...

right now... and has been probably 30 years or better... in the Courts... the legal rights to the Black Hills.... it was givin to the Indians as Reservation Lands... then Gold was found... so the US Government re-wrote the treaties and moved the Indians further south of the Black Hills and Claimed the Land... Gold and Silver coming out of there would have been the Rights of the American Indians who by Treaty Owned the Lands... thus Because of the findings and Monitary Issues... they were denied their rights and Moved off their lands yet once again!!!!

Allot of Deep Rooted Issues when we bring up the American Indians...

Hog
usahog Offline
#17 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 8:49 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Mag.. come back... don't take my Scum remark as a racial strike....

I took it from your statement...
"If I were an Indian, I would want to make it on my own. I'm an American-Mexican. I've never used my racial background to succeed in life."

as though you were classifying all American Indians as though they only live on reservations and do not support themselves...

Yes I Miss Stated the Remark "Scum" in refrence to your statement... I call my Own 52 yr old Brother a Drunkin Scum Sucker who doesn't want to commit to Society... every time he calls me at 3 am telling me how worthless I am because of this or that...Not only is he waking up my Wife and Step Daughter... but at 3 am he's taking life into a realm of unrepairable events in the Future....

Mag I personally think your Accomplishments in your lifes events are fantastic and view you as a Friend and Brother of the leaf... in no way did I want what I said be takin out of context and what I stated about my Brother was Factual... as is many in Society today... I did view your statement aiming to all American Indians in a lower catagory and I should have used a different refrence in that event... I did not and I am sorry if it set your Blood Pressure off!!!!

Hog
Tobasco Offline
#18 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 9:36 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809


OK, I'm back. Sorry if I took your statement wrong
Hog.

Look, I do want to clarify, that I realize far more American Indians work and live off of reservations and are paying taxes and contributing to this society than dont. American Indians are great people.

And I dont care what race anyone is, where they come from, what color their skin is, if they are gay or strait, man or woman. None of these things matter to me. I only use these terms as to identify a group of folks for discussions if need be.

Its the actions of each individual or group that I look at, thats it, thats whats important to me.

Now getting back to this tax status for American Indians in CA reservations. Look, we are in a very bad way in this state. We all need to help get out of it. If you are living here I think you should help.

I pay such high income taxes, workmans comp(through the roof!), sales tax(8.25%), and property taxes, that I feel I'm putting in my share and others just like me too. Look where we are at! We need EVERYONE to help right now! Thats all.

I used to love this state called CALIFORNIA. Its getting harder and harder to be happy out here because of the political climate and the over taxing going on. I want to stay, but I'm probably going to leave this beautiful state when I retire. Too bad...

Mag
dkornaus Offline
#19 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 10:03 AM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 34
I'm not really up on the specifics of the current agreements and what they entail. Do they specifically state that American Indians do not have to pay both state and federal income tax within the reservations?

Concerning the subject of reservations as a whole...

I can drive about 5 miles from my home and find a neighborhood in Chicago that is almost entirely Polish. There are no highway signs that tell me "Polish Reservation - Next Exit." The residents there do not receive special treatment, and they move in and out of their area's borders just as non-Polish would move in and out of them. Their area was not allocated by the government as a reparation, but they still choose to continue living with others who are like them. That's why we have areas that become known as "Chinatown" or "Little Italy" or "Greektown."

Native Americans esentially do the same thing, however; their land was alllocated by the government and they receive special treatment. Giving them land was probably the best gesture that government could make, but by dong so, I think they brought about a problem. By creating reservations, the government almost says "This is where the Native Americans will live. Go nuts." Obviously they are not bound to the reservations and plenty of them live outside of the reservations. By outlining borders and proclaiming it a soverign area, the government almost suggested that some of the Native American segregate themselves. It also opens them up to special treatment and benefits.

If they want to live and work together, let it happen naturally. They can pay taxes and do their part just like everyone else. They'll still be afforded the same benefits and opportunities as any other citizen. I just don't see why the soverign land is necessary and it just doesn't seem like an answer to me. Then that brings up another question: had the government foreseen a problem with creating reservations, what would be a satisfactory reparation at the time?
B Naked Offline
#20 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 10:07 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2003
Posts: 85
Hog, in your "Brandon let me get this straight post"
you sum it up by saying it's a given right to live here not a monetary right. If that were true, why don't we all stop paying our taxes and say we have the right to be here whether we help support the country or not. I think every person enjoying the freedoms in this country has an obligation to help support it. Keep in mind Hog, our taxes also go for victims of hurricanes, floods, other natural disasters. Our tax money goes to help other countries not as fortunate as ours. What would happen if everyone were to say they were no longer gonna help pay for anything other than what effects their lives, or goes on in their own backyard. We'd all have more money inour pocket, but who would pay for policemen, firemen,hospitals, etc. I'm tired of our country being divided into all these little groups. Laws differ from state to state. Growing up in Minnesota I wasn't allowed to shoot off fireworks on the 4th of July. But if I lived in Wisconsin I could. One state has a speed limit of 55, the next is 70. Doesn't the whole idea of "The United States" mean it's citizens should be governed by the same laws? I'm not trying to piss you off Hog, I understand (and agree) with everything you say, but when are we gonna let go of all the little groups and become one country?
usahog Offline
#21 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 10:08 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Mag.. I can understand your Frustrations... but the events laid out through life... are ours for the changing... we cannot tell people their going to work and pay their fair share... most of them will take a hit off their Joints or down their beer's and tell you/I where to shove it!!! there are Indian Reservations in...I think Every State... it is not just California who carry's what some view as a burden... but just because the polititions has put that state in such a turmoil Taxs Wise... doesn't mean the books should be thrown out on those that Rightfully have the breaks... My Property Taxs just went up again... its praportioned (sp) my Wife about went through the Roof... I just looked at it and Laughed my Ass off... I can Appeal it... whats the use?? a hearing and lost time... their going to do what they need to do to get what they want... this again is the "Yes Men" I've been talking about....
they tell us we're going to put a Gaming Casino in to help pay for the School Fundings... they put it in... how much goes to the schools??? Ok our State is going to bring up a Lotto.. to help pay for the offset of the Schooling.. how much of that goes towards the schooling??? We're going to Raise the Cigarette tax/Tabacco Tax to 5 Bucks to help offset the Schooling... how much goes to the Schools??? we just paid 40 bucks for the kid to get into Swimming a Sports event.. it should have been covered by the Taxs already raised in my Property tax plus the Lotto plus the River Boat Casinos.. Plus Plus Plus... but yet Robbing from the poor to give to the Poor... is the Motto these days... and Oh yea.. the 40 bucks you just paid just so the kid could be in sports instead of the other Crowd of Drugs and ****.. its not tax deductable....but the swim suit and the nose plugs ear plugs and goggles are... if you fall into the 70,000 a year catagory... but if not... well Thanks for the Contrabution of keeping yet another kid out of jail "We Hope" and look forward to more lovely contrabutions in the future!!!!! Have More Kids if you can Afford it!!!!
Now that the Rant is over...

We Cannot Force people to work... and We damn sure cannot take away a Givin Right for others to cough up and contribute... there are other ways and means... but picking out a certian group and then allowing yourself to fall into the very same newpaper artical that wants you to do that that has happend... Voice your Opinions because your State has your Livelyhood streached to the Max Capacity!!!! its the very same Propoganda Bull**** that people are falling into every day with the Iraq situation..... Look at how many Soldiers are getting Killed and for what??? and when we're so busy through the week to slow down and really see the Issues... a Saturday Morning cup of Coffee and a news event can set us off like the Time Bomb we've been building up... thats Exactly what the Liberal Media Wants... and so doesn't the "Yes Men" because then it takes you away from the real issues... and their going to F&*K you on your Taxes the Next go round!!!!

Thanks for your Contrabution....
Did I ever share with you what my Dad did with his retirment checks.. what was left over from them???
at 62 he was pretty burned out with Society also...

Hog
usahog Offline
#22 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 10:20 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Brandon... again...you didn't clarify your statement you went on a rant about the Laws and the states..

Stop paying taxes.. see what happens with yourself and the IRS... if you have a Treaty with the Government then more power to you!!!!
but like I stated... don't try and aniolate (sp) the Treaty's our Government has with the Indians because YOU feel you are paying to much.... go to washington and tell them you want a treaty also... show grounds and try and get one granted...

the United States Constitution and it's Embodied Laws make up this Land... and it also Allows Each and Every State in its Union to Enact their Own Embodied Constitution....thus makes up the States Rights and the Federal Rights... of each State Constitution it is to be in the same "guidlines" as the Federal... each State has a Governing Body who represents the States... and the Rights there of... and then they Have Elected Federal Governing Body's who represent there States Rights there of on a Federal Level...
Tell it to your States Governing Body's what your complaints on the Indian Ordeal you feel is wrong... then see what reply you get back... in the meantime... I will surf and try and find some of these Treaty's between the US and the Indians...

btw you didn't Piss me off... I have some Pretty Thick Skin... and another Note... Welcome to the Boards!!!!

Hog
B Naked Offline
#23 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 10:27 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2003
Posts: 85
Thanks for the reception Hog, glad to be here.

One of the nice things about this country(and this board) is we can all have our own opinions and still get along.
usahog Offline
#24 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 10:31 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Wow,dkornaus I've been to Chicago many times and driving I don't ever recall having to show my Visa/Passport entering and leaving a Neighborhood...

"I can drive about 5 miles from my home and find a neighborhood in Chicago that is almost entirely Polish. There are no highway signs that tell me "Polish Reservation - Next Exit." The residents there do not receive special treatment, and they move in and out of their area's borders just as non-Polish would move in and out of them. Their area was not allocated by the government as a reparation, but they still choose to continue living with others who are like them. That's why we have areas that become known as "Chinatown" or "Little Italy" or "Greektown." " Each one of these you listed above were like our Ancestors... Migrated here from another Land...Poland,Itialy,China,Greece... Where as the American Indian Migrated but from one peice of American Soil to another...across what used to be Great Plains Following the Buffalo and Deer for Food.... but then come the "White Man" and with expansion came less land to the Indians... thus nowadays the American Indians... Migrate from Reservation to Reservation... sounds good eh?? but thats not the case... most AI's I've met usually stick to their own Tribal Customs and lands givin to them by Treaties between them and the United States....

and btw the most I've had to do is Pay Tolls in Chicago... and I love to go walking through the streets in the evening and see the different ethnic groups... the wife and I were just up there in March/April of this last year... she's Polish and she loved walking/driving and see'ing the little bread stores and coffee shops through those Neigborhoods...

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#25 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
i have been to 2 of these casinos and they both stink, and stunk. i asked for a drink as one of the drink bringers walked by and he delivered a stolie and 7 with a bill for 5 or 6 bucks. i did not accept the drink or the bill. no free drinks.

the slots wee crap.

i was asked to put my cigar away. no smoking cigars in any of their casinos.

i could care less about their tax situation, i will never go into a tribal casino again.
dkornaus Offline
#26 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 11:16 AM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 34
Hog,

Chicago is just as culturally diverse as any other city, but there are definitely areas where a small minority of the residents are *not* of a particular decent. Humboldt Park for example. You'd really have to search for someone who is not Puerto Rican. In fact, the area is so very much Puerto Rican, they they've erected large archways over the major streets entering the Humboldt Park area which display the Puerto Rican flag.

Huh huh... I said "erected."

*ahem*

I think the comment about not having to show your Visa/Passport is bit much though! :) I wasn't trying to make Chicago sound like a segregated city with paper-checking Stasi on the street corners. It's diverse, but there are definitely areas that are almost entirely the same decent. What I was trying to get across is that there are no defined borders or special treatment applied to these areas, yet they still tend to contain people of the same background who stick together. Regardless of if they came here, or were here from the get go.

Alright, so the "white man" fcuked the Native Americans nicely. Sure, it's a shame and if we could change it, we would. I think that goes without saying.

I know they are not bound to the reservations, and plenty of them do not even live there. But by defining those borders in the first place, the government sets apart those who do live there. Can't we abolish the reservations, let them continue to congregate there or wherever they want, and give them some sort of tax break as a sort-of "Sorry about that whole massacre thing."?

Or maybe we should just leave it how it currently is. Native Americans living on reservations don't seem to complain, and Native Americans living outside of reservations don't seem to either. Both parties are there because they want to be, I know. The only people complaining are those greedy evil white republicans who see billions in untaxed dollars slipping away, right? :o

A bigger issue to me are those who run Indian casinos and are only a fraction Native American, yet are taking advantage of not paying income tax. I hate to use examples from the "idiot box", but there was an episode of the Sopranos that mentioned such situations. Where should the line be draw though? I don't know.

Another debate perhaps?! Next caller, please!


Dan
usahog Offline
#27 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 11:21 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
As Promissed...
Indian Land Treaties between the United States and the Native Americans...

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwss-ilc.html

http://thorpe.ou.edu/treaties.html

Here's a good one
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/time/dwe/16338.htm

California's Treaties...
http://www.indiancanyon.org/landsmap1.html
another good one in understanding the Laws for Native Americans Lands and Rights...
http://profs.lp.findlaw.com/ilands/ilands_3.html

another good one to read/refrence
http://www.yvwiiusdinvnohii.net/lists/treatylist.htm

there are tons to read... here's the Yahoo link to all
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Indian+Treaties+of+the+United+States&sub=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=fp-top

Enjoy!!!!
Hog
usahog Offline
#28 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LMAO @ Dan... Well if you read any of my Past posts or ask most of the folks on the Forums... I'm one of the Biggest Right Wing, Bible Slinging,Greedy Evel Re'public'ans there is aroudn these parts... hell in one thread I was also givin a White Hood and ummm I forget whatelse LMAO!!!!!

but on the other issue.. yes "we should just leave it how it currently is" as far as how the Indian Casinos are taking in the big bucks and not supplying Tax's.. in the links I posted above... they have their own rules and guidlines to live on their lands... what they take in is strickly up to their laws to divide up... the reservations in Wisconsin and Arizona are in allot better shape then the ones in South Dakota or Nebraska... but like it's writin they have the right to control their own lands destenys....

Rick... when your playing at any Casino... you know as well as anyone else... when your Winning... your Treated Good.... when your Losing... well you find your own Ashtray!!!!! your statement above shows me your not to good at the Cards!!! LMAO!!!!!

Hog
dkornaus Offline
#29 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 11:40 AM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 34
Hog,

As you saw from my first-ever post yesterday regading "Bowling for Columbine", I'm an evil white republican myself. Minus the greed and the bible-slinging, however. You may be even more hardcore than I am, but only time will tell. :)


Dan
usahog Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 11:52 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LMAO!!!!! yea I seen your post and posted Hang On or something to that Affect...

I do enjoy going to Chicago and seeing all the sites visiting all the shops and only on one Occasion was there ever any trouble.. that wasn't really any trouble at all... allot of co-workers fear chicago because of the Crimes and crap... I live in a City where it isn't broken up into ethnic groups like chicago is... I was born and raised in a River City and it wasn't broken up like that either... it was segragated by East Bluff, West Bluff, North and South Enders... and even at that time the African Americans lived in each area as such.... going through school was a question of which part of town are you from??? not your race, color or creed... seems funny looking back on it though... because this was just less then 10 years after all the race riots of the 60-70's and stereotyping people by what part of town they were from was the biggest issues!!!!

you all should try and make the LOLH in a couple weeks here in Capitol City Illinois!!! LoL

Hog
dkornaus Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 12:45 PM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 34
LOLH?
usahog Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 12:50 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Land Of Lincoln Herf...

drop me an email...

usahogathotmaildotcom

Hog
dkornaus Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 34
E-mail sent.
E-Chick Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 2:41 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
It seems that each "race" has it's own beefs about something with somebody...it always reminds me of what my kids would say when they were little, "THAT'S NOT FAIR!"...

Let the Indians (or Native Americans, or whatever other PC name is popular now) be...the treaties stand, just as our Constitution does. At least until someone (most likely an Atheist) interprets it differently...LOL!

Now can we talk about just how difficult it is to find a good "legal" housekeeper!?

Marla
0patience Offline
#35 Posted: Sat, Sep 27 2003, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2003
Posts: 1,023
Interesting topic.
Some of us prefer Indian, instead of Native American. My father left the reservation in 1947 to join the military. His father too joined the military to get away from a school run by religion and only returned to the reservation when after the military and a hundred odd jobs couldn't get decent work, then started a Jeep dealership on the reservation. My grandfather's mother was forced from Oregon to Montana, in 1979, she died on the reservation at 108. My brothers chose to live in Montana to do whatever they do. I chose to live in Oregon as a normal American. I pay taxes as you do.

My view on it is that the govt set the rules. The tribes are abiding by those rules. Do I think they should pay taxes? Absolutely. Do I think they are wrong for capitalizing on it? Not really, as all big business take advantage of tax shelters of one kind or another.

As for the opinions about this. I think it is great that everyone has voiced their opinion, as there is no wrong opinion. :)

Just my humble opinion.
Cigarick Offline
#36 Posted: Sun, Sep 28 2003, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
I'm part Apache, so I'm certainly sympathetic to the plight of Native Americans today, but the fact is that they were not the original residents of this country.

That aside, they're sovereign, but they're still living and doing business and getting the benefits of public services in the US and in the state of California.

What we really need to do is legalize gambling, but short of that, they should be paying taxes just like the rest of us--as should churches. Tax reform is one of the biggest problems facing CA today, and I'm all for a flat tax, but there's no reason anybody shouldn't have to pay their fair share.
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