America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 16 years ago by heynow5151. 150 replies replies.
4 Pages<1234>
Kitty Litter for RH control
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
fishinguitarman Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 4:12 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
51!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RandyB Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:01 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
OK another question for the KL users.

Still researching I have come across the topic of condition the KL to a desired RH.

Can this be done using one of the packet type Humidifiers, like the Bolivia 65% pack?

My idea is to place the KL in a bag, throw in a packet and let it absorb the humidity that way to 65%.

Will it work?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:08 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
^
No.

All passive humidifcation sources are going to have their rate of moisture release and stabilizing RH at a given temprature determined by their chemical properties not those of the object next to them.

It's kind of like cooties.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:11 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
" the object next to " == " the humidifier next to "

RandyB Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:13 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
Not sure I follow you. I have been reading for hours now on this topic, many say you can "TRAIN" the KL to hold a certain RH, they do this by Distilled and a Hygrometer, once the RH reaches your desired level say 65% you remove the water from the KL and wait until it drops, then reintroduce the water to bring it back to the desired set point, then the KL will retain the memory of the set point.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:19 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
^
Complete BS.

You can't train slicon dioxide to do anything, it naturally maintains a humidity level somewhere in that range at 70 degrees anyway.
RandyB Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:23 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
Well, I have read testimonials that say different. I could post the link but not sure if its a competitor or not. C pass?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:27 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
I've read testimonials that say Puros Indios are good cigars and equal rivals of Cuban cigars.

Would you like a link to that load of BS too while you're at it?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:30 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
Come on Randy, you know you want those links that say PI's are the greatest cigars in the world, they're on the internet, therefore they _must_ be correct!
RandyB Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:33 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
I hear what you are saying, but cigar taste is highly subjective vs KL RH levels.

Apples and Oranges?
RandyB Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:39 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
RE56

TG, if that statement is true how can the "BEADS" be sold under different RH levels if you cant condition them to be trained for a specific RH?
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:40 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
No, not apples and oranges.

Some assclown once wrote on the internet that you needed to roll cigars over periodically to "keep the oils from settling to the bottom half of the cigar".

Complete and utter bull**** but it's been parroted all over the place by the "I read it on the internet, therefore it must be true" types.

Really, every time I hear that tweeked out nonsense about "training KL to do what it does naturally due to it's chemical composition" I laugh my ass off.

In related news, the sky is blue.
Odylic Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:40 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
TG-

everything i have read regarding beads shows that there is very little effect upon their RH capabilities due to normal temperature changes within 10-20 degrees
Odylic Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:44 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
the variance on the RH for beads is due to variances in their chemical composition... they are not 100% silica or you could just use sand...

they are about 90% silica and the remainder is lithium cloride (which is corosive and will react to metal and organic acids)
Odylic Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:45 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
man my spelling sucks

should have been lithium chloride
Torpedo1 Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:48 AM EST
Joined: 04-08-2001
Posts: 4,768
Oh Crap!!! You mean PI's are not as good as cubans??? Oh my life is ruined...
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:50 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
RE #61-

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!

WE HAVE A WINNER!



Now you're catching on, it's not training, it's chemical composition.


Here's the deal:

KL is just a ball of silica, which naturally ballances out somewhere around 70RH at 70degrees.

Cigar Beads are silica cores WITH a hydrophobic ("lacking affinity for water") coating. To achieve the various humidity levels, outer coatings with sligtly different chemical properties are used. It's the interaction of the two - one stores the water, one regulates it.

JTokash explained the actual interaction and chemistry in much greater detail at some point in the past, but that;s the cliff notes.
RandyB Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:50 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
Odylic that makes sense to me. I think I will buy some KL and experiment with some, see if I can actually condition it to a set point RH. Its cheap enough to do it with.

Come on it would cost over 200 bucks for the "BEADS" VS 14 for the same amount of KL.

Worth the $ to try I guess.
fishinguitarman Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:52 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
^YUP!
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:53 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
RE #63-

Agreed. But 70degrees is just the benchmark temprature that is used for humidors - thats the only reason I mention it.

Personally, I don't want my cigars at 70 degrees. Too close to beetle hatching tempratures - I've never seen a beetle, and I never want to. 65 degrees is fine for me, my lips can take the cold, I swear.
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 5:59 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
"Come on it would cost over 200 bucks for the "BEADS" VS 14 for the same amount of KL. "

ROFL!

How much of this stuff do you think you need?

Are you aware that 7lbs of cigar beads will humidify over 35cubic feet worth of space?
Odylic Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:03 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
ok... as soon as the humicare humidifiers get here the beads are going...


material safety data sheet on LiCl:
https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/12885.htm
RandyB Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:05 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
Yes I do, but I am thinking ahead, I can still get 7# of KL cheaper then 1# of Beads.

I could keep the extra around to replace or use in other tuberdoors in the future, plus I hear over kill is better for keeping RH.
Odylic Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:23 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
TG-

I know that the numbers (regarding amount of beads/cu. ft) you are quoting are what a supplier claims, but would have to disagree with them. using the internal dimensions of my humi i would only need 2 lbs... there is no way that would handle it unless i was recharging weekly. I have about 7 pounds or so and am recharging about every 2.5-3 weeks right now (really dry ambient air right now).

I would recommend using the calculation of 1 pound beads for every 2-2.5 cu. ft. unless you are also using an active humidification device.

Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:38 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359

Ody,

But you're not using Cigar beads, you're using KL in the tower.

My experience with KL was that I had to use four, five, six times more of it to obtain a stable environment. Less than that, and I was getting swings in humidity for no particular reasons - moisture release was very erratic on the KL. Switched to CB and didn't need anywhere near as much and the lesser ammount provided a more stable environment.

While giving up that kind of volume to a few pounds of KL might not be a problem if have a big humidor or cooler, it's the pits for small humidors.
Odylic Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:48 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
even with my 300 ct i need to use about twice the amount suggested by HF
Odylic Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:49 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
and i have been slowly switching over to hf beads... have 3.5 lbs of 65% beads and about 4 lbs of KL
RandyB Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 6:55 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
I think I will start with KL and then when the rebate checks get here get me some C Beads, yes thats the plan.

Would that make you happy TG?

I am gone for now, I am leaving to have lunch with my sexy wife, see you all this afternoon. :)
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:03 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
Randy,

It's not an issue of "making me happy" - I'd just hate to see a BOTL's cigars ruined or damaged in the same fasion as what happened with some of mine due to the erratic nature of KL.
Odylic Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:10 AM EST
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,183
Randy-

the biggest thing you need to understand is that everyone here has different needs when it comes to humidity control. Some of us need to always add, some need to be able to reduce as well... what works for you, TG, and myself may be exactly the same or completely different.

if you are willing to spend the money on cigar beads, i would actually recommend spending a bit more and getting an active humidification system. The main benefit is that most of them have a fan. which is extremely important when you get to anything in the order of 300ct or more since you will quickly find that RH varies greatly in larger humidors unless a) you have something moving air, or b) you have static devices thoughout the humidor.
teedubbya Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:30 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
65% HF for several years for me. No muss, No fuss very little $$ spent
maddman Offline
#82 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:31 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2005
Posts: 2,677
#64 left us to believe that maybe 10% of the beads are lithium chloride, which I think is labeled as harmful to the nervous system, kidneys and lung function.
teedubbya Offline
#83 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:33 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
are you madd about that?
maddman Offline
#84 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:34 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2005
Posts: 2,677
What do you mean TW
teedubbya Offline
#85 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:42 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
well you are a maddman
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#86 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 7:52 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
(to the tune of the old HoneyComb commmercials from when we were kids)

Noob must have beads, YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
No, not gel, NO! NO! NO!
Must have beads YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
GreenWolf says KL beads, are the same! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
No, not HF beads, NO! NO! NO!
I can't think, for myself! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
No, not gel, NO! NO! NO!
I need beads! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
I can't think, for myself! YEAH! YEAH! YEAH!
maddman Offline
#87 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 8:04 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2005
Posts: 2,677
Yes I aaaaam!
RandyB Offline
#88 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:07 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
Lunch was good, we went to Mazzios for a pizze buffet.

RE 79, thanks TG, your concern for me is appreciated.

RE 80, I have a oust fan for my large tub at the moment. If I ever get a TOP or somthing like that, then yes I would get the active system, until then I will have to live out of my 3 woods, 2 plastic and 1 large tub humi's and expand as neeeded.

Guys you must remember this. I have only really started storing any quanity of cigars since Dec.

I have learned a vast amout since being here and with all kidding aside.


THANK YOU!!

pacman357 Offline
#89 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 02-27-2006
Posts: 42,596
#86 Time for a medication adjustment?
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:09 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Ninety
RandyB Offline
#91 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:13 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
I dont think they legally make the kind of medication he needs. :) Well not in most states.
Mr. Jones Offline
#92 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:27 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,483
GreenWolf70 ^^^^ #36

If you can't spray distilled water directly on the beads(or will shorten their life) then how the heck do you add humidity to the beads??
maddman Offline
#93 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:30 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2005
Posts: 2,677
let the kitty refresh them
teedubbya Offline
#94 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:33 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
you sit water next to them and let them absorb slowly through evaporation
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#95 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:42 AM EST
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
I found an old thread that has some valuable info on conditioning KL:

http://www.cigarbid.com/...ageDisplay=0000000107672
RandyB Offline
#96 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 9:44 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
:)
RandyB Offline
#97 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
97
RandyB Offline
#98 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
98
RandyB Offline
#99 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
99
RandyB Offline
#100 Posted: Thu, Feb 28 2008, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 01-10-2008
Posts: 2,878
1 0 0

Users browsing this topic
Guest
4 Pages<1234>
Back to Top