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Confederate Flag Comments
usahog Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
washingtonpost.com
Rivals Demand a Dean Apology
Candidate Attacked in Debate for Confederate Flag Remark

By Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, November 5, 2003; Page A01


BOSTON, Nov. 4 -- Former Vermont governor Howard Dean was harshly rebuked by several of his Democratic rivals here Tuesday night for offending whites and blacks alike by recently saying he wanted "to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

In one of the most personal and heated attacks of the campaign, Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) and Al Sharpton called Dean's comments offensive and demanded an apology from the front-runner in the race for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination.

Dean, saying "I'm no bigot," refused to apologize and told his rivals the Democrats will never recapture the White House until they find a way to appeal to working-class white voters in the South. "I make no apologies for reaching out to poor whites," he said.

The fiery exchanges, which took place in the opening minutes of a candidate forum aimed at young voters and hosted by CNN and Rock the Vote, set the tone for the liveliest and most unconventional debate of the campaign. They were triggered by a pointed question from a young African American in the audience who said he was "extremely offended" by Dean's recent remark to an Iowa reporter that "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."

Sharpton, who has been increasingly critical of Dean's record on other race matters, said, "If a southern person running . . . had said that, they'd have been run out of the race." Edwards, who has mostly refrained from attacking his rivals, turned to Dean, pointed his finger and said his statement was "condescending" to southern whites, too. "The last thing we need in the South is somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do," Edwards said.

In his defense, Dean invoked the words of Martin Luther King Jr., who he said talked of bringing together the children of slave owners and the children of slaves. Dean said that Republicans had used racial issues to appeal to working-class southerners for three decades and that it was time for Democrats to put a stop to it.

Sharpton, his voice rising, called the Confederate flag "America's swastika" and accused Dean of misquoting King. He said of Dean's flag comment: "I think it is insensitive and you ought to apologize for it. You are not a bigot, but you appear to be too arrogant to say I'm wrong."

Dean got the last word, calling the Confederate flag "a loathsome symbol," and said he had proved he is without bigotry by signing a bill authorizing civil unions as governor of Vermont.

Facing an audience of voters 30 and younger, eight of the nine Democratic presidential candidates tried their best to relate to the audience in Boston's Faneuil Hall and on television. Edwards and Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.) showed up with open collars, while Dean and Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (Conn.) wore ties and shirtsleeves. Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (Ohio) and retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark wore black turtlenecks and jackets. Each candidate supplied 30-second videos complete with rap or rock music.

During the 90-minute debate, the candidates were asked about everything from smoking pot to which rival they would most like to party with. Kerry, Edwards and Dean said they had smoked; Carol Moseley Braun was the only Democrat who refused to answer. Kucinich said he has not smoked pot but thinks it should be decriminalized.

As for partying partners, Sharpton said he would pick Kerry's wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, who made news herself this week by telling a local paper here the debates are "silly."

Some of the questions might help make her case. Every candidate was asked a techie version of the famous boxers-or-briefs question posed to Bill Clinton in 1992: "PC or Macintosh?" Most chose the personal computer. And Kerry was asked if he would have pulled Red Sox starting pitcher Pedro Martinez in Game 7 of the American League championship, which Boston lost; he would have.

Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) skipped the debate. "Tonight, he's in Iowa, in a diner," said CNN anchor Anderson Cooper, the debate moderator.

Tuesday night's debate offered the candidates a unique forum to connect with a very specific, albeit historically apathetic, audience: young voters. In 2000, fewer than one in three eligible voters between 18 and 24 voted. A recent poll by Harvard University's Institute of Politics shows that younger voters support President Bush more broadly than older voters but remain largely open to persuasion.

With the nation narrowly divided between the two parties, many Democrats are counting on a large turnout from college-age voters to help oust Bush next year. The Harvard poll shows Lieberman and Dean leading among undergraduate students. Gephardt was near the bottom with 3 percent.

With the exception of the early attack on Dean, the candidates largely steered clear of the personal criticism that dominated recent debates. They also spent far less time rehashing their differences over the war in Iraq and funding for the military operations there. With the exception of Sharpton and Kucinich, none of the candidates advocated pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq now. Dean said the United States can't "cut and run." Instead, the candidates were pressed on issues that have not been dominant themes.

Clark said he supports lifting the trade embargo with Cuba, an unpopular position with many Cuban Americans in politically important Florida. "We're not going to reward Fidel Castro, but we are going to make sure that Cubans have a democracy and they have the same rights as everyone else on the planet," Clark said.

Clark and the others said they also would provide greater protections for gays in and out of the military, drawing applause from the audience. Clark said he has gay friends and believes the military needs to rethink the "don't ask, don't tell" policy for gays even if it makes some of his former comrades uncomfortable.

Dean said he did not know many gays when he was growing up or when he signed the nation's first civil unions law as governor of Vermont. "The single most important act in helping gays and lesbians get the same rights as everybody else is . . . people who are gay and lesbian standing up and being proud of who they are and saying so. That way Americans get to understand them as human beings."

Lieberman, asked to give advice on sexual abstinence, said the government needs to do more than tell kids to quit having sex. "If you are only teaching abstinence, you're only going to teach so many and affect so many lives," he said. "You have got to expand that to cover condoms and birth control."

The three issues dominating the campaign -- tax cuts, health care and Iraq -- took a back seat to other domestic concerns and a flurry of one-liners as the candidates looked to appeal to the younger, hipper crowd.

Dean, the target of several personal attacks in recent weeks, said, "I knew I was the front-runner because I keep picking buckshot out of my rear end."

Staff writer Dan Balz in Washington contributed to this report.

Enjoy!!!!
Hog
SteveS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I'm not going to vote for Howard Dean ...

but it has nothing to do with his comments that stirred this latest controversy, which I think is a bunch of over-heated PC run amok ...

We've reached a pretty sad state of affairs in this country when a candidate for office can say something as innocuous as he did and stir up this much crap ...
merlin9052 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 04-25-2003
Posts: 308
I have one on my truck,but i ain't voting for that idiot!!

Eric
Intel Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-24-2002
Posts: 546
Dean is a dip**** but I live in an area where the confederate flag still flies. It is not about race with the people here it is about their past. Just like the African American groups that feel they need to have an outline of Africa their clothing.
dbguru Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
The door is opening for Bubba in the Democratic party

Next thing there's going to be biscuits and gravy and grits fundraisers complete with gun shows....

jdrabinski Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Intel wrote:

"Dean is a dip**** but I live in an area where the confederate flag still flies. It is not about race with the people here it is about their past. Just like the African American groups that feel they need to have an outline of Africa their clothing. "

This is what cracks me up about crackers talking about the confederate flag. They claim it isn't about race, then they turn around and make a comment about race! Ha ha ha! Give me a break. It is SO about race and you know it. It ain't a mistake that the Klan flies it at their rallys, you know.
tailgater Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Guys, if the professor says the Confederate Flag is about race, then it must be so.

Doesn't matter if you grew up with the Flag in your pappy's pickup.

Or if you enjoyed the Dukes of Hazard and thought it looked cool painted on the hood of your dodge dart.

Or if you like Lynyrd Skynyrd and Molly Hatchet and the Alman Brothers.

If the Professors says it can ONLY mean ONE THING, then who are we to argue?

John, in case you missed it: I'm being sarcastic.
And although far too many racists and bigots DO fly the flag high, that doesn't make the symbol evil.

If you had a Family Crest for generations in your house, and then some group of Child Molestors like NAMBLA (who's right to exist you support) choose to use your Crest on their website, would that demonize that symbol?
Don't chase the wrong things.

The Nazi Swatstika (spelling?) is perhaps the lone exception to this rule.
Gene363 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,881
jdrabinski

"This is what cracks me up about crackers talking about the confederate flag. They claim it isn't about race, then they turn around and make a comment about race! Ha ha ha! Give me a break. It is SO about race and you know it. It ain't a mistake that the Klan flies it at their rallys, you know."

You don’t know much, but it is obvious what YOU know, BIGOTRY.

Calling someone a “cracker” is the equal to using the “N” word.

jgjam Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2002
Posts: 909
Even the swastika is a symbol for many other groups other than the Nazi party including the Navaho and Hindus.

http://www.swastika.com/goddess.html
jdrabinski Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Read Intel's post. That's the comedy in this. First there is the denial about race, then the next line is about...you guessed it...RACE!

One question: if you were black and your neighbor flew the confederate flag, would you feel comfortable? Nope. You wouldn't. Why not? Because all of us know, deny as we may, that it is a racist symbol. Simply is, no real debate. Ever wonder why the KKK chose that flag? It isn't a mistake or gratuitous. You know it, I know it, let's just be honest about it.
eleltea Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
I am shocked that jd would have anything negative to say about the CSA flag.
tailgater Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
John,
Your "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude is a bit discomforting considering your profession. Your opinion is your own, and it is not backed by actual facts, but rather by your interpretation.

I'm honestly not picking on you (this time).
Until the recent hoopla surrounding certain southern states banning the Confederate Flag, I NEVER thought of it as being a symbol for racism.
Never.

Yes, I knew the Klan fly it high.

But they also wear sheets over their heads, yet I don't think of racism when I make the bed.
AJ_CHICAGO Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-27-2003
Posts: 189
I totally agree with Tailgater. I grew up in the north, but vacationed, as a kid, in the South (Mo., Ar, Fl.). I always loved the looks of the Confederate flag, and it always represented "the South" to me, not anyone's political or racial opinion. It is only offensive if you allow it to be, and it is only used offensively by racists. It's racists who are the problem, not the flag. I don't know if I was black and lived next to someone who displayed the flag of the CSA whether or not I would be "uncomfortable", but I do know that if I was white and lived next door to someone who displayed the Stars and Stripes along with an "America, love it or leave it!" bumper sticker I might be uncomfortable. Our prejudices are all relative.
Intel Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-24-2002
Posts: 546
The flag’s symbolism is unique to each individual. If you see it as racist so be it. I on the other hand do not. Similarly some people might feel African Americans who wear Nation of Islam Symbols are racist. It is all how a person interprets what they see. As for the Cracker line. You should use Cracker as sparingly as you would calling an African American Boy or the "N" word. I live in the middle of Appalachia nobody around here ever owned slaves they where to poor. The people now see the Confederate flag a symbol of the areas past and their heritage. I do see Dean as a Dip****
Charlie Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
"Cracker" is as offensive as Ni--er and you should be ashamed to use the term! But I am sure there is a legitimate excuse for the liberal teaching community to say anything they choose, since they have destroyed History as a subject with the new Political Correctness from the Left!

Charlie
Charlie Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
And yes Howard Dean is a fuc--g Dip****! So is John "Big Hair" Kerry!

Charlie
usahog Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
good to see ya posting again Charlie!!!!

Hog
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
What's wrong with cracker?
I've never thought it to be a slur, other than in jest.

SteveS Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
This argument is irrelevant to the original post ... where those flying the Stars and Bars stand on the topic of race has nothing to do with Dean's original statment in which he said that he wanted his campaign to be inclusive of ALL elements in the South, INCLUDING those who drive pick-up trucks with gun racks in the window and fly the CSA flag ...

While it IS true that he's a bit of a dip-s**t, he's just a dip-s**t who in this instance, said nothing that a reasonable person could possibly be offended by ... he only offended those actively seeking to take offense at the slightest hint of an opportunity to do so ... full-fledged, 24-carat, dyed-in-the-wool dips**ts such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson ...
Charlie Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Speaking of those two great (LOL) Americans, why are they not speaking out on behalf of Lt Col West who is facing a court martial for merely saving his men from being attacked by the Iiraqui guerrilas?

Charlie
Gene363 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,881
Charlie, Re. Lt Col West,

At the risk of thread jacking:

Because Lt Col West is a god fearing Christian???

Naw, Democrats relish anything that might in some twisted way be blamed on Bush so they won't lift a finger.
Steve*R Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
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Please: What is this forum, a clipping service?
Cigarick Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
If the Dem's don't pull their collective heads out, they're going to end up with Shrub as pres again...
65gtoman Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858
Well that settles it, im going to buy some of these flags today. Maybe put one on the GTO right around my “Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people then my gun” and the “friends don’t let friends vote democrat” bumper stickers.


I watched that rock the vote crap that was on cnn last week, and I can say theirs no way in hell a demonrat will get in anytime soon. What a bunch of freakazoids!!


SteveS Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
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"... no way in hell a demonrat will get in anytime soon. What a bunch of freakazoids!!"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you're correct about the timing of a Demo being elected, but I have too little confidence in the discernment of the voters to do more than hold my breath on election day ...
Steve*R Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
65gtoman was watching CNN..........

Nice troll. How's Magnum?
jdrabinski Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
SteveS, unfortunately the best reason for your suspicion lies in the election of an inarticulate, 2.0 gpa party boy with an awol on his military record, who was and is wholly without vision. Where's the discernment?

Oh, I forgot that the majority voted against him...lol! A fragment of hope restored...
usahog Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Did you say something SteveS???

LMAO!!!!!

Hog
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