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Last post 20 years ago by Charlie. 21 replies replies.
61,000 executed by Saddam regime
65gtoman Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858
By Niko Price
ASSOCIATED PRESS
1:09 p.m. December 8, 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq – Saddam Hussein's government may have executed 61,000 Baghdad residents, a number significantly higher than previously believed, according to a survey obtained Monday by The Associated Press.

The bloodiest massacres of Saddam's 23-year presidency occurred in Iraq's Kurdish north and Shiite Muslim south, but the Gallup Baghdad Survey data indicates the brutality extended strongly into the capital as well.

The survey, which the polling firm planned to release on Tuesday, asked 1,178 Baghdad residents in August and September whether a member of their household had been executed by Saddam's regime. According to Gallup, 6.6 percent said yes.

The polling firm took metropolitan Baghdad's population – 6.39 million – and average household size – 6.9 people – to calculate that 61,000 people were executed during Saddam's rule. Past estimates were in the low tens of thousands. Most are believed to have been buried in mass graves.

The U.S.-led occupation authority in Iraq has said that at least 300,000 people are buried in mass graves in Iraq. Human rights officials put the number closer to 500,000, and some Iraqi political parties estimate more than 1 million were executed.

Without exhumations of those graves, it is impossible to confirm a figure. Scientists told The Associated Press during a recent investigation that they have confirmed 41 mass graves on a list of suspected sites that currently includes 270 locations.

Forensic teams will begin to exhume four of those graves next month in search of evidence for a new tribunal, expected to be established this week, that will try members of the former regime for crimes against humanity and genocide. More graves will later be added to the list.

But nobody expects all the mass graves to be exhumed, and nobody expects to ever know the full number of Iraqis executed by their government.

Richard Burkholder, who headed Gallup's Baghdad team, said the numbers in Baghdad could be high for two reasons: People may have understood "household" to be broader than just the people living at their address; and some families may have moved to the capital from other areas since the executions occurred.

"Anecdotal accounts start to support it, but they don't get you to 60,000," he said in a telephone interview from Princeton, N.J.

Even reducing the numbers slightly because of those possibilities, however, Burkholder said the number of executions the data suggest is higher than previously estimated, in the low tens of thousands.

The deadliest atrocity associated with Saddam's government was the scorched-earth campaign known as the "Anfal," in which the government killed an estimated 180,000 Kurds in Iraq's far north. Many were buried in mass graves far from home in the southern desert.

Another 60,000 people are believed to have been killed when Saddam violently suppressed rebellions by Shiite Muslims in the south and Kurds in the north at the close of the 1991 Gulf War.

Sandra Hodgkinson, director of the U.S.-led occupation authority's human rights office, estimated that some 50,000 others were executed during Saddam's reign, including Kurds killed in chemical attacks and political prisoners sent to execution.

That 50,000 figure also would include prisoners killed in Baghdad.

The survey, which had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points, was conducted in face-to-face interviews in Baghdad residents' homes from Aug. 28 and Sept. 4.

The people were selected at random from all geographic sectors of the Baghdad metropolitan area, and more than nine in 10 agreed to participate. That's at least double the response rate for many U.S. telephone polls.



Niko Price is correspondent-at-large for The Associated Press.
jdrabinski Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Let's reinvade Iraq!

Or, let's figure out how many civilians we've murdered there.

Nah, that would cloud our patriotism with facts. Wouldn't want that.
Cigarick Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
Let's just admit that there were plenty of good reasons to get rid of him.
jdrabinski Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
There are a lot of good reasons for deposing Bush II.

And there are a lot of good reasons for getting rid of a lot of leaders around the world.

Your point would be...?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,610
What good points?

The dow cracked 10000 today and that hasn't been done since the impeached President Clinton was sexually abusing employees!

Your bitterness shows me just how desperate the far left is. If this has your panties twisted in knots then I can't wait till one of the 9 Mondales has to stand face to face against the President and rattle on about their compulsive anger disorder and what pie in the sky giveaway programs they'll dream up to entice people to vote for them!
jdrabinski Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Yeah, Bush II has really reduced spending...lol! Guess the massive budget deficits are just an illusion.

Unemployment, deficits, further and further alienation from the world community, quagmires in Afghanistan and Iraq, and so on...but the DOW is up!!! That is desperation, Dr. Vibrator.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,610
Read TODAY'S newspaper.
jdrabinski Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
You mean the paper with stories of MORE meaningless deaths in Iraq?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,610
http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20031209/5742292s.htm

MDavis Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2003
Posts: 94
If killing your own people is justification for invading other countries, we're going to be very busy over the next several decades. North Korea, China, etc. So many countries, so little time.
Sylance Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
Quote from jdrabinski:
“You mean the paper with stories of MORE meaningless deaths in Iraq? “
__________________________________________________________________________________________
I put this in another thread, but I think it got buried before anyone saw it. Jdrabinski, listen to this clip and tell me the war is meanlingless.

http://bujinkanusa.com/sylance/IraqiClip.wmv


Quote from jdbrabinski:
“Or, let's figure out how many civilians we've murdered there. “
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
According to www.dictionary.com, the work murder has the definition of:

1. To kill brutally or inhumanly.

So you’re telling me we have troops over there, murdering civilians. Are you comparing our troops actions to those of Saddam Hussein’s? By the definition of murder, Saddam is a murderer, but do you believe Bush deserves the same definition?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,610
He runs his mouth here because he doesn't have a class to "preach" at anymore. He thinks people want to hear his rantings.

He runs his left leaning mouth here because he lacks the courage to go to say Ft. Carson or Ft. Bragg and yap what he does here. I'd pay a buck to see him go into a bar outside of Bragg and run his mouth.

That's entertainment!
Deriffe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-30-2003
Posts: 522
I have checked, again, and President Bush did not hold a gun to the head of any Congressman or woman to get them to send up spending bills. You see, the way our system works is, the Congress brings up the bills, they debate them and pass the bills to the President for him to sign into law. There seems to be a few here who are confusing our system with their preferred socialist form of government where the the boss gets his way or else.

If you will look a couple pages past the socialist garbage being passed around, you will see that the vast majority of the new spending has been directed to the Military, the war on terrorism and to internal security efforts after 9/11. These areas were sorely neglected the previous 8 years. I lived it so don't try to say it wasn't so.
Sylance Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
Deriffe, well said. Let's see if there's a reply.
MDavis Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2003
Posts: 94
You're kidding right? Congress is controlled by Republicans, GWB is a Republican. You don't think Republicans, including GWB, are responsible for the budget deficit ? You think it's Clinton's fault Republicans can't control themselves. Flash - Clinton's been out of office for a couple of years now.

Following your logic, it's the Republicans who ignored the military. Republicans controlled Congress for much of those eight years you mentioned.
jdrabinski Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
MDavis has scored a direct hit.

Cbid right-wing versions of Baghdad Bob expected to make an appearance shortly.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
This is a great thread.
Heinous facts are displayed and our resident whiner points the barrel at our own President.

Professor, please read the post by MDavis.
He obviously leans more left than right, yet his post intelligently states his opinion without reeking of sour grapes. We are able to disagree without anger.

The reason many liberals are able to post without getting lambasted is the manner in which they post.

Unfortunately, for every sophomoric remark the professor makes, he gets same tenfold.

But we all lie in the bed we make...
jdrabinski Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
As with others, you seem incapable of reading between the lines regarding authorship...who is this 'professor'? He was fired? He quit? He does something else? Who is this writing?

I am deeply amused by the conservative pile-on. Always hilarious. Nary a whine in my posts, by the way, that's just your term...do you know what it means?
Sylance Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
Huh?
MDavis Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2003
Posts: 94
jdrabinski needs no defense from me. He does just fine on his own. However, I would point out that there are some on the other side who slobber all over themselves when responding to liberal points of view.

Hey tailgater. Lay off. You're messing with my image as a left-wing, radical, commie liberal. :)
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
MDavis,
Never fear:
I barely put a **** in your armour.
Charlie Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Jdrabinski makes me laugh talking about Bagdad Bob! He is our American version of the silly, but fun, talking head!

Charlie
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