America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 20 years ago by CWFoster. 18 replies replies.
Hey Demoncrats
mrtelcom Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
I usually dont do politics online, but thought this was interesting :

This was written by a retired admiral and Annapolis graduate. The item offers no direct testimony about Kerry, but it does provide informed background useful in assessing what Kerry seems to have claimed for himself.

Our media should be demanding that Senator Kerry open his service records in the same way they demanded that of President Bush regarding his NG service.

*****************
I was in the Delta shortly after he [Kerry] left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts, but no limp. All injuries so minor that no time lost from duty? Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals
every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.

(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.

(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.

(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn't return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well in Massachsetts in1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting, winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering our flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.

eleltea Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Interesting. Thanks.
Messier11 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2002
Posts: 293
Thank you Secretary Rumsfeld we appreciate your input.
mrtelcom Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
Donald Rumsfeld is a fine American. I would love to have him and John Ashcroft over for dinner.
usahog Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Very good Assesment... thanks for the post mrtelcom...

I'm not sure I would invite Don Rumsfeild out to dinner but I would John Ashcroft.... I'm not decided on Don's dealings on some stock holding options.. he's been in politics since Jimmy Carter regime... and I gotta see his name off a certian list... but as a director of the military I will say the man has done a damn fine job!!!!!

Hog
Da-Glyde Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-25-2003
Posts: 892
The “admiral” or guy that wrote this sounds a little invidious. I love how people try to find dirt on Kerry this early and have to turn to the internet to make up fake pictures, letters and stories that REAL people come forward to set straight. DON’T BELIEVE EVERTHING YOU READ OR SEE ON THE NET. As for this letter, just asked the men that he saved their life if he did his part or not or earn his “HARDWARE”.


GIG'EM,

Dan
Cavallo Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
and this (former?) democrat responds:

i think that ANY politician who stands on his military record should absolutely have every nook and cranny of it scrutinized by the public.

there are many, many viet nam vets who have padded their experiences. some do so only in "fish tale" war stories. others go to more extremes and purchase medals (they're not hard to buy) and claim them as medals they were assigned -- this is, btw, illegal.

any veteran i know who has ever served will unabashedly say "sure. check it out if you don't believe me" and stand on what his DD214 says. when a vet gets defensive about his record, that's clue #1 that says "something's fishy."

for those who have not done so, i HIGHLY recommend the book STOLEN VALOR by B.G. Burkett, a viet nam veteran who has spent years now tracking down "fake vets" who have so completely skewed america's vision of what the vietnam veteran is all about. such people have taken the valor and honor displayed by the vast majority and twisted it into a stereotype of the vietnam veteran as a boozey, nightmare-addled homeless junkie who can't get it together because of "what happened in the nam, man..."

so absolutely. kerry's records shoud be absolutely opened wide and scrutinized thoroughly.
xibbumbero Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
I too would like secretary Rumsfield and John Ashcroft for dinner,with a nice chianti and fava beans,fft,fft. X :~)
fudge Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 12-04-2003
Posts: 444
LMAO @ X.
You're welcome to Ashcroft, but I'd have to draw the line at Rumsfeld. In fact I'll send Ashcroft an invitation for ya :)
bloody spaniard Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Thank you Mrtelcom. Liberal voting record notwithstanding, you've made me realize just how morally repulsive that ugly gold-digger is.

At least, the eccentric Nader appears to be honest & sincere in his socialist quest.

Charlie Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Kerry is a phony, nothing more nothing less!

Charlie
wekikther4wer Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-12-2003
Posts: 408
Yeah, address 'em as demoncrats, that will win them over.
mrtelcom Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 03-25-2004
Posts: 2,255
Lighten up Frances. ;-P
mhpd Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-06-2004
Posts: 55
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp
coda Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-27-2003
Posts: 623
"Lighten up Frances."

I got that.
Cavallo Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
this is worth topping. and the snopes page -- www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp -- is well worth reading -- it debunks the accusations made very well and gives a lot of detail about what really happened in the instances questioned. here's just part of it, pertaining to him leaving his boat and the silver star that was awarded him:

Kerry earned his Silver Star on 28 February 1969, when he beached his craft and jumped off it with an M-16 rifle in hand to chase and shoot a guerrilla who was running into position to launch a B-40 rocket at Kerry's boat. Contrary to the account quoted above, Kerry did not shoot a "Charlie" who had "fired at the boat and missed," whose "rocket launcher was empty," and who was "already dead or dying" after being "knocked down with a .50 caliber round." Kerry's boat had been hit by a rocket fired by someone else — the guerrilla in question was still armed with a live B-40 and had only been clipped in the leg; when the guerrilla got up to run, Kerry assumed he was getting into position to launch a rocket and shot him:

On Feb. 28, 1969, Kerry's boat received word that a swift boat was being ambushed. As Kerry raced to the scene, his boat became another target, as a Viet Cong B-40 rocket blast shattered a window. Kerry could have ordered his crew to hit the enemy and run. But the skipper had a more aggressive reaction in mind. Beach the boat, Kerry ordered, and the craft's bow was quickly rammed upon the shoreline. Out of the bush appeared a teenager in a loin cloth, clutching a grenade launcher.

An enemy was just feet away, holding a weapon with enough firepower to blow up the boat. Kerry's forward gunner, [Tommy] Belodeau, shot and clipped the Viet Cong in the leg. Then Belodeau's gun jammed, according to other crewmates (Belodeau died in 1997). [Michael] Medeiros tried to fire at the Viet Cong, but he couldn't get a shot off.

In an interview, Kerry added a chilling detail.

"This guy could have dispatched us in a second, but for . . . I'll never be able to explain, we were literally face to face, he with his B-40 rocket and us in our boat, and he didn't pull the trigger. I would not be here today talking to you if he had," Kerry recalled. "And Tommy clipped him, and he started going [down.] I thought it was over."

Instead, the guerrilla got up and started running. "We've got to get him, make sure he doesn't get behind the hut, and then we're in trouble," Kerry recalled.

So Kerry shot and killed the guerrilla. "I don't have a second's question about that, nor does anybody who was with me," he said. "He was running away with a live B-40, and, I thought, poised to turn around and fire it." Asked whether that meant Kerry shot the guerrilla in the back, Kerry said, "No, absolutely not. He was hurt, other guys were shooting from back, side, back. There is no, there is not a scintilla of question in any person's mind who was there [that] this guy was dangerous, he was a combatant, he had an armed weapon."
Another member of the crew confirmed Kerry's account for the Boston Globe and expressed no doubt that Kerry's action had saved both the boat and its crew:

The crewman with the best view of the action was Frederic Short, the man in the tub operating the twin guns. Short had not talked to Kerry for 34 years, until after he was recently contacted by a Globe reporter. Kerry said he had "totally forgotten" Short was on board that day.

Short had joined Kerry's crew just two weeks earlier, as a last-minute replacement, and he was as green as the Arkansas grass of his home. He said he didn't realize that he should have carried an M-16 rifle, figuring the tub's machine guns would be enough. But as Kerry stood face to face with the guerrilla carrying the rocket, Short realized his predicament. With the boat beached and the bow tilted up, a guard rail prevented him from taking aim at the enemy. For a terrifying moment, the guerrilla looked straight at Short with the rocket.

Short believes the guerrilla didn't fire because he was too close and needed to be a suitable distance to hit the boat squarely and avoid ricochet debris. Short tried to protect his skipper.

"I laid in fire with the twin .50s, and he got behind a hootch," recalled Short. "I laid 50 rounds in there, and Mr. Kerry went in. Rounds were coming everywhere. We were getting fire from both sides of the river. It was a canal. We were receiving fire from the opposite bank, also, and there was no way I could bring my guns to bear on that."

Short said there is "no doubt" that Kerry saved the boat and crew. "That was a him-or-us thing, that was a loaded weapon with a shape charge on it . . . It could pierce a tank. I wouldn't have been here talking to you. I probably prayed more up that creek than a Southern Baptist church does in a month."

Charles Gibson, who served on Kerry's boat that day because he was on a one-week indoctrination course, said Kerry's action was dangerous but necessary. "Every day you wake up and say, 'How the hell did we get out of that alive?'" Gibson said. "Kerry was a good leader. He knew what he was doing."
Cavallo Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
by the way, that happened 35 years ago tomorrow.
usahog Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
he shot the **** in the Back... who's ****tin who?? and bottom line he had to shoot the SOB...It's called War people... not chess where you make a move and then get up have dinner a cup of tea and then a day or so later come back to it... War.. it is started by the hands of someone... and ends by the hands of someone else.... there are no safety zones.. no time outs... you alone can protect your own destiny during this time.. and then you alone can grow out of the turmoil brought on through the actions of such...

I myself if had to shoot a SOB in the back to make sure myself and co-workers were safe at that very second.. would shoot the SOB in the back... and 30 yrs later if asked did you shoot him in the back I would stand face to face eye to eye and say... Hell Yes I Did... not sugar coat it like it was a crime...You alone have to answer for your justs and unjusts.... and not to some media affiliat or talk show host..

I don't care what or how I am doing in the eye's of these people.. all I care about is if I'm doin right by the man upstairs.. these people arent going to be around me 20-30-40 yrs from now... but the man upstairs is there all the time!!!!

You can lock your doors to theives but you cannot lock them to Liars...

Hog
Hog
CWFoster Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
AMEN Hog, You do what you have to do to protect your people! The ones right around you first, then you can worry about the big picture, and take care of the threat to the folks back home, but if job 1 is compromised, you wont live to take care of job 2! My biggest problem with Kerry has nothing to do with what he did in Viet Nam, it has to do with what he did when he got home, and out of the Navy. He broke faith with the guys that were over there with him, he broke faith with the guys that were being held in the "Hanoi Hilton", and in doing so, he broke the CODE! NOBODY BREAKS THE CODE! There was a guy who was filmed giving a confession to some of the crimes that Kerry testified were going on, and while he gave it, he was blinking out the word "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" with his eyelids! This was one of the guys that Kerry was willing to see if we could get ransomed back AFTER we signed a peace accord with North Viet Nam! As was Sen. McCain. Has anybody asked HIM what he thinks of Kerry? I don't really care what McCain thinks about anything, but I know what was on the back cover of KERRY's OWN BOOK! I know what testimony he gave before Congress about "what everybody was doing" in Viet Nam. And it turns my stomach!
Users browsing this topic
Guest