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Flick Your Bic - What was your favorite concert?
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Cavallo Offline
#1 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 3:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
along with the music thread, thought i'd toss this one out there.

i'm not ashamed to say that the first concernt (and one of the best) i ever saw was amy grant touring w/michael w. smith for El Shaddai. petra gave a good show, too.

my top 4 concerts, though...

1. the pogues and camper van beethoven
2. depeche mode and OMD
3. echo and the bunnymen
4. the exploited and half life

concerts i would have loved to see but didn't:
1. ac/dc
2. KISS (in their heyday)

how 'bout you?
jazzman Offline
#2 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 3:45 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2000
Posts: 1,012
Boney James with Norman Brown as the opener.
Seth Gekko Offline
#3 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 01-30-2004
Posts: 2,311
Santana, outdoors in the sun, dance and be happy
Pink Floyd -Toronto Molson Stadium

and I'll always be nostalgic about
my first -Judas Priest/Iron Maiden double header.
CWFoster Offline
#4 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Cav, I DID see Kiss, in the next to last tour they did. If they were any better in their heyday, I don't know how!
xibbumbero Offline
#5 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 4:04 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
The Stone's Voodoo Lounge tour. X
DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 4:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
Fishbone
Kiss
Van Halen w/ DLR
ZZ Top
John Mellencamp
Journey
George Thorougood & The Delaware Destroyers
The Cure
REM
Chris Isaak
smelly4tay Offline
#7 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 4:26 PM EST
Joined: 11-15-2003
Posts: 2,775
-Eric Clapton Unplugged
-Dave Mathews Band: 12 times
-Up in Smoke/San Diego: Eminem, Snoop, Dre, WC, Ice Cube
bloody spaniard Offline
#8 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 5:08 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Add Bachman Turner Overdrive, Tom Petty, & Boston to most of DrM's list.

Those I'd die to see: Vanilla Rice, Biggie Fatso, M&M (plain), Ice Tea Bags, Jung MC, Loodecrass, Sixpackfershure, & Sniff Doggie Poop. It don't git no better!

Dats my fitee cent--don't aks me fo mo!
jstiltner Offline
#9 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 5:17 PM EST
Joined: 01-09-2004
Posts: 116
1st - Billy Joel and Elton John at Veterns Stadium PA.

2nd - Dave Matthews at MSG in NY.

3th - Pearl Jam at Jones Beach, VA

4th - Chicago at the Sony E-Center in NJ.

5th - Jimmy Buffett at the E-Center

Funny story. I was with my cousin and we scored center stage 3 row seats for the Joel / John tour. There were a lot of same sex couples there. I asked my cousin if he noticed that there were a lot. He said "what did you expect? It's an Elton John concert." I never knew that he was gay until that day.
chipslave Offline
#10 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 5:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 3,145
My top 3 (in no particular order)...

Michael W. SMith w/ Third Day

Dave Matthews/Tim Reynolds

David Gray

I got tickets to see the Barenaked Ladies play. I keep hearing that they put on a fantastic live show. Can't wait to see that later this month...
BigTony Offline
#11 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 07-22-2001
Posts: 185
1: Elton John at Madison Square Garden sometime around 1990... fantastic, he came out for 3 encore songs
2: Billy Joel/Elton John at the Tacoma Dome about 2 years ago. My wife scored some great seats..(not 3rd row, but excellent seats!)
3: Metallica/Guns 'N Roses Monsters of Rock Tour at Giants Stadium. A good friend of mine was a concierge at the local hotel across from the stadium. It was where all the big-wigs stayed. He helped out the right guy and he scored passes that allowed us to be in the middle of the stage while Metallica played .. they called it the "Snake Pit" as the stage was at about eye level. Totally mind blowing! For G'nR we had after show passes so we could get into the restricted "Stadium Club" where we got to meet Slash and Duff. Axl was an a-hole, as he cut the concert short because supposedly someone threw something at him from the crowd. I still have the passes from that concert somewhere in a scrap book.... I was offered LOTS of , shall we say "favors" from lots of groupies in trade for those passes during the concert. I was almost deaf for about 3 days after that show.
4: Motley Crue at the Ritz in NYC.... not because I was in the 3rd row but because I got to meet Joey Ramone before the show. He was really soft spoken and totally cool.
5: Jethro Tull at the Ritz ... gotta love Tull!
gatorboy Offline
#12 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 6:22 PM EST
Joined: 02-29-2004
Posts: 1
1. The Reverend Horton Heat - Texas rockabilly at it's very best.
2. Acoustic Alchemy - Some of the best jazz guitar there is.
3. Stevie Ray Vaughan - Saw him just after In Step came out, one of the best ever.
4. Huey Lewis and the News - Still rocking after all these years.

Les
Cigarick Offline
#13 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 6:33 PM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
Queen (Note for note)
Tull (right after 'Thick as a Brick')
Crosby and Nash (featuring Carole King on 'Wind on the Water')
Doobie Bros (those guys can still rock any 10 current bands right off the stage)
Van Halen (twice: once with DLR, once with Sammy)
SA Offline
#14 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 7:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-10-2002
Posts: 126
Jerry Jeff Walker opened for
America who opened for
Little River Band (1st US Tour)who opened for
Jimmy Buffett.

Front Row Center three encore from Buffett and then went drinken with him into the weee hours.

The absolute time of my life!

SA
mattmelcher Offline
#15 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 7:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2004
Posts: 96
the ones that come to mind are...

Lyle Lovett - acoustic at Sherman Hill
The Police - Ghost in the Machine Tour
Gratefuld Dead - July 4th 1984 (i think...)
Paul McCartney - early 90's
X - iowa city 1981
AC/DC - back in black tour
KISS - rock and roll over tour
John Hiatt
Farm Aid 1 & 3
Prince

nfldraftman Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 8:18 PM EST
Joined: 01-28-2004
Posts: 642
Black Sabbath Reunion Tour - a near religious experience, one helluva show. Ozzy's solo tours aren't even close to what this was like.

The only one close...
Eric Clapton - may be the only concert I can remember just sipping beers and listening. Truly magnificent.
GU Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 11:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2003
Posts: 213
Lauro Nyro at the Santa Monica Civic. That was more than a concert.

Jethro Tull, at the Forum in Inglewood.

My wife and I had reserved two tickets to see Ricky Nelson at the Palamino, but we didn't go. Soon after, he passed away. This, along with not going out for the football team in high school, I will take to my grave as disappointments in my humble life.

Dennis

K9JEFF Offline
#18 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 1:49 AM EST
Joined: 12-13-2003
Posts: 23
Rush,, several times, but the 2003 Vapor Trails tour was the best

ZZ TOP,, killer showmen, great tunes.

G3 tour with Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson and Steve Vai....great concert. True musicans.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#19 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 2:53 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
do any of these count

issac stern
rostroprovich
the bolshoi
montserrat caballe
kornazoo Offline
#20 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 2:58 AM EST
Joined: 12-03-2003
Posts: 312
The Doors? Hendrix? The Mothers of Invention? The Who? Al Green?...How about Grover Washington w/ Nancy Wilson? All were great..But a band called "Cubanismo", hit the stage at 100 mph, and never let up for over 2 hours..closest experience to a "horizontal mambo" I've ever heard...Smokin hot...
Cavallo Offline
#21 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 3:11 AM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
rick: not only do they count, but wow -- great concerts!
plabonte Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 4:06 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
My favorite was the MTV Headbanger's Ball tour.

Anthrax with Exodus and Helloween
puskarich Offline
#23 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 6:18 AM EST
Joined: 01-04-2003
Posts: 2,143
When I was in college, we used to get a group of people together and go to tons of concerts. Those were some great times. In the summer, we'd sometimes be at concerts 2 or 3 times per week if our work schedules permitted (usually, it was once per week, though). I saved all the ticket stubs and mounted them in 2 poster frames. It made for an interesting conversation piece.

The best concerts I've ever been to:

1 - Billy Joel/Elton John.
2 - Steve Miller Band. Saw them in concert 5 times.
3 - Jimmy Buffet. Saw him twice.
4 - Styx. Saw them 3 times.
5 - Van Halen. Saw them once.
6 - Phil Collins. Saw him once.

Concerts that were better than expected.

1 - Huey Lewis
2 - Chicago
3 - Blues Travelers
4 - ZZ Top
5 - Lynrd Skynrd
6 - Dan Fogelberg


The worst concerts I've ever been to:

1 - Rod Stewert. He had laryngitis and restarted some of his songs 2 or 3 times.
2 - Bon Jovi. Horrible.
3 - Def Leppard. Yikes.
4 - Janet Jackson. Nice to look at, but she just didnt want to be there. I think she played for 40 min and then left.
5 - Tone Loc. Thank god this one was free.

Concerts I've always wanted to go to, but either could not get anyone to go with me or could not get tickets.

1 - Eagles
2 - Pink Floyd
3 - Grateful Dead
4 - Tom Petty
5 - Moody Blues
Burky4467 Offline
#24 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 7:12 AM EST
Joined: 12-27-2003
Posts: 875
In no order:

1. Police-Farewell Tour-MS Coast Colliseum
2. Van Halen-Diver Down Tour,MS Coast Colliseum
3. Dada-Howlin Wolf-NOLA
4. Son Volt-Varsity Theater, Baton Rouge, LA
5. KISS-Superdome-NOLA
6. Bottle Rockets-House of BLues-NOLA
7. RATT-Biloxi Coast Colliseum-Biloxi, MS
8. Cracker-House of Blues-NOLA
9. Uncle Tupelo-Anodyne Tour-NOLA
10.Wilco-FM Tour-Boston, MA
Jon@CAO Offline
#25 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 7:26 AM EST
Joined: 08-23-2002
Posts: 745
Pearl Jam w/Rage Against the Machine (opening) at The Palace in L.A.

Stone Temple Pilots w/Cheap Trick (opening) at the AM South Amphitheatre (Nashville)

Limp Bizkit (Gaylord Entertainment Center, Nashville)
Charlie Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 7:30 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rolling Stones, any of a number of them, Steve Miller Band, Van Morrison several times!
Tina Turner concerts on several occassions!
Charlie
RDC Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 7:56 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
My FIRST concert I saw the Godz. Ironically Cheap Trick was their opening act.

Saw Loverboy, good, but on for 60 minutes and got the F'k out. No oncor. Boooo Loverboy.

The best by far was the World Series of Rock, Circa 1979 at Cleveland Stadium.
In order of apperance:
Def Lepard
Journey
Foreigner
ELO
sketcha Offline
#28 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 8:12 AM EST
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
Doc,

I knew I recognized your handle you being a Fishbone fan and all.

Man, some of you guys with your extra years have seen some shows that I would've loved to have seen.

O.K., here's my list, not necessarily in any order...

Allman Brothers-Many times, best was probably at the Warfield SF 1994, 5 sold outs in a row.

Pink Floyd-Division Bell, Oakland Coliseum twice

AC-DC-Razor's Edge Shoreline Amphitheater

Oingo Boingo-Many times, Riverside Amphitheater Halloween show 1988 where they had the 3rd largest show that year next to Steel Wheels and Michael Jackson's whatever show that year. Warfield was great to, but it was hard to beat the Tiny Santa Cruz Civic.

Jane's Addiction-Ritual (pre-Lollapalooza) Damn that show rocked!

1st Lollapalooza

Rush-Several times, best probably at Shoreline for Roll The Bones

Social Distortion-Catalyst Santa Cruz

Reverand Horton Heat-Catalyst

Santana-many times, Always best at Concord where they can play it loud!

P-Funk at Catalyst was pretty good

That's all I can think of for now
Cigarick Offline
#29 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 8:21 AM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
Almost forgot Return To Forever! Their first song was 45 minutes long. Absolute virtuosity on their instruments.
al'Thor Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 8:58 AM EST
Joined: 06-17-2003
Posts: 2,793
Justin Timberlake. I camped out for 3 days to get front row seats. During the encore, he looked into the audience to pull someone up on stage. He started reaching for this hot teeanage girl standing next to me and I threw her an elbow and grabbed his hand. His voice was so dreamy as he yelled 'Get off me you freak'. I'll never forget the look in his eyes as security dragged me away....
sketcha Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 9:04 AM EST
Joined: 03-26-2003
Posts: 3,238
You know he wanted it, Al.
rasdas Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 9:09 AM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 4,716
Bad al'Thor....

As for memorable...

1. Pearl Jam...Ramones (opening)...Las Cruces
2. Metallica...Candle Box...Suicidal Tendencies...Flight...Albuquerque
3. U2 Zoo Tv (Tempe and El Paso)
4. Creed...Collective Soul...Las Cruces
5. Dwight Yoakam

These are the ones i remember off my head...tickets are home...

RasDas

Joe
RDC Offline
#33 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
****, I forgot the Goddess of Rock Pat Benetar
I went to her Get Nervous tour. Fanfreakintastic!

She was Soooooo Sexy!!!!!!!!!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#34 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 10:16 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
Worst concerts...

Guns 'n' Roses - Pre-Appetite For Destruction. Saw them at a bar in Detroit called The Ritz. They were so wasted they could barely stand up. The crowd got ugly and Axl got mouthy. Anything that could be thrown was. You could get you money back for the show. The management made them come back to appear again on a different night, if you had a ticket from the original night you were let in for free.

Hank Williams Jr. - He was so drunk that he kept falling down. He'd still sing even after he fell off of the stage at Pine Knob. I was embarassed for him. I had really good seats and wanted to see him, but damn I didn't want to smell his whiskey breath on me!

NIN - In a bar in Ohio. Heard a lot of buzz about this Trent Reznor guy. I drove 2 hours to see a wimpy, pasty black dye job scream into a microphone with a tape deck behind him. He didn't even have a band at the time...just him! The only redeeming point of the show was during a break he sits up to the bar and we started talking...seemed like a likeable guy...has the barmaid put anything we want on his tab...Gets up for his next set and pukes all over the place.
al'Thor Offline
#35 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 10:32 AM EST
Joined: 06-17-2003
Posts: 2,793
DMV, I want your life....

O.k. seriously:

Stavesacre
Pearl Jam (you can hear me screaming 'I love you Eddie' on the recording...)
Page & Plant
U2
DMB
Smashing Pumpkins (it was way better than I thought it would be)
castlewa Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 11:18 AM EST
Joined: 08-28-2002
Posts: 1,047
In Order:

1) Split Enz True Colours at the Showbox in Seattle.
2) Police Ghosts in the Machine tour at the Seattle Coliseum.
3) Fats Domino and Jerry Lee Lewis also at the Coliseum.
4) Beastie Boys at Western Washington University. What a blast that was.
5) Platinum Blonde at the Paramount.

Worst Concert ever:
Level 42
drnos Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 11:32 AM EST
Joined: 10-29-2003
Posts: 2,787
1. Doobie Bros @ Swing Auditorium in San Berdoo (~1975)
2. Jethro Tull Thick as a Brick tour
3. Alice Cooper School's Out @ Hollywood Bowl (my 1st concert - 1972)
Boy, does that date me!!
Best recent: Jackson Brown & Tom Petty at the Coors Amphitheater, last summer
gerber Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 11:52 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 783
1. Rainbow (1979)--watching Ritchie Blackmore play live and in person was something I'll never forget. Even had the benefit of seeing him do his famous strat destruction at the end.

2. Manhattan Transfer

3. Phil Keaggy--phenomenal guitar player

4. Long Beach Blues Festival--standouts were Etta James and Jeff Healy (blind guitar player--absolutely amazing to watch).
cockyhoskins Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 1:17 PM EST
Joined: 11-13-2003
Posts: 200
1) Warren Zevon at Be Here Now during the Learning to Flinch Tour in early 90s.
2) Dylan and Paul Simon in the early 80s.
3) Kiss Reunion in 1996
4) Hootie & the Blowfish in Cola, SC in early 90s.
5) Johnny Cash at Peace Center in Greenville, SC in early 90s.

As far as most entertaining, it actually was NSync. No I don't listen to them, but my wife made me go. It actually was one hell of a show.
rayder1 Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 1:51 PM EST
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Day on the Green
Oakland Coliseum
1978

AC/DC
Van Halen
Foreigner
Pat Travers
Aerosmith

I think I went to all the Day's on the Green in the 70's. That's just the bill I remember the most. I went to a "Monsters of Rock" day on the green with Sammi Hagar, Blue Oyster Cult and Cheap Trick to name a few. Bill Graham would put together huge multi bill concerts. I dug up a concert bill from this concert and posted it in pic.post.
billreif Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 03-02-2003
Posts: 1,430
Yes 25 times
Elton John in 1972
Warren Zevon in 1979
Rush in 1977
Jon Anderson of Yes in Jan.04
ferd6 Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-19-2001
Posts: 1,145
In no order -
Billy Joel (Indianapolis Circle Theater - one week after The Stranger came out)
Elton John (IU Assembly Hall -Bloomington, Indiana - one week before Goodbye Yellowbrick Road came out)
Emerson, Lake, and Palmer (Rosemont Theater Chicago Illinois - late 70's)
Alice Cooper (Market Square Arena - Indianapolis during the Welcome to my Nightmare tour)
jazzman Offline
#43 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 2:46 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2000
Posts: 1,012
ferd, you jogged my long-term memory. Emerson, Lake & Palmer in the mid-70's "Brain Salad Surgery" tour.
dave97402 Offline
#44 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 2:49 PM EST
Joined: 12-24-2003
Posts: 3,598
Day on the green...late 70's

Lynrd Skynrd (just before the big crash)
Outlaws
Santana
Peter Frampton

What a great day!!!

Dave
rayder1 Offline
#45 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 3:21 PM EST
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Yes! I remember that concert. Another great one. Green Grass and High Tides Foerver!

Do any Bay Area folks remember the Day on the Green where they had a band called "St. Paradise" do the warm up. I've never seen a band boo'ed off the stage so thouroughly. I don't think they got through 3 songs.

Bill Graham came out on stage and chastized the concertgoers for being rude and threatened to can the show. I've never seen a concert promoter so thouroughly boo'ed off the stage.

Then there was New Years Eve at the Oakland Arena where Bill Graham "flew" over the crowd in a huge joint (doobie) tossing, what looked like hundreds of joints to the crowd. Dang I am starting to hae flashbacks.
bassdude Offline
#46 Posted: Mon, Mar 1 2004, 4:18 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
Gotta go with my first

AC/DC back in Black
followed by ANY Sammy Hagar show saw him 10 times
The Who was damn good
Clapton
The BOSS
Van Halen w/DLR
Genesis
ZZ Top
Alabama was actually a good show
Charlie Daniels
Styx
Kansas
Stevie guitar Miller

Man I could just go on and on.


Worst by far was Guns N Roses. About 2 songs in Axel jumped off the stage and got into a fight with a member of a motorcycle gang. Then the group walked off and most of the crowd rioted. They tore out seats started fires and tons of fights. We got out as the police helicopters arrived. Never saw so many cops in my life. this was at Riverport in St Louis.

Next worst, Billy Squire w/Ratt followed by Pat Benetar.
La10870 Offline
#47 Posted: Tue, Mar 2 2004, 4:45 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-1999
Posts: 993
1-Deep Purple, 1972 at Charlotte Park Center. Gillan and Blackmore unbelievable.
2-Blue Oyster Cult around 1971/72 at a Goodwill Center in the Charlotte area. Had never heard of them...what a stack of Marshalls in a very small building.
3-Richie Blackmore's Rainbow around 1976 at The Fox Theater in Atlanta. Early show with Ritchie and Dio, some of whick was recorded for the live album.
4-Deep Purple and ELP at the August Jam in 73 at Charlotte Motor Speedway. 2 of many great bands at a 2 day affair patterned after the California Jam.
Homebrew Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Mar 2 2004, 7:59 AM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
These are in no particular order.
Evey Grateful Dead show, I went to, in 2 years of following the Dead, selling grilled cheese sandwiches, in the parkinglot. The High Point, of them all, was having a bite to eat with Jerry, in San Fran. in the parking lot, with some of the rainbow family.
Every Texas Jam, at least all the shows, at Texas Stadium, never made it to Houston. ZZ Top, always rocked.
Every Ozzy Show. Saw him with Black Sabbath, my first concert, I was 8 years old, and my parents wouldn't let my sister go, if she didn't take me. Got me hooked on concerts early on.
Rush, up until the Moving Pictures show. That was the last good tour for them.
Recently, Wide Spread Panic, at the riverFront, in Little Rock Arkansas.
John Prine, also in Little Rock AR. I was hoarse for three days, after singing along, with John, and half the crowd.
A little earlier, I had Back stage passes, to a Doobie Brothers show, at the riverFront, in LittleRock.
Really too many to list.
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
Wood-man Offline
#49 Posted: Tue, Mar 2 2004, 8:29 AM EST
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 234
Neil Young w/crazyhorse early 90's what an awesome show they put on. He did a rendition of "All along the Watchtower" that was so cool. This show really suprised me. He really rocked the house down.

Pink Floyd - Carter Finley Stadium
Rush - Early 90's. Neal Peart's drum solo incredible.

Woody
pabloescabar Offline
#50 Posted: Tue, Mar 2 2004, 2:34 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
gots to be in their was the scorpions to me as close to #1 as it gets, of corse this was a long time ago.
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