America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Sometimes its good to take the best of both sides of an issue and negotiate and come to compromises. Its a common tactic used by senators and congressmen in both political parties. It's how much of our laws get passed.

Flip-Flop is such a stupid shallow label for matters involving awareness of circumstances which can change, details, negotiations and compromises to reach decisions. But of course 100 million spent on Bush sound bites along with the cacaphony of neo-con label makers are so effective attaching shallow negative labels which deflect awareness and motivation on drilling down to the real facts. They don't want you to drill down to the facts on this. The label (Flip Flop - Kerry - Bad Bad Bad.....(duh??)) itself works so well. I guess its enough to think about. They think that asserting simple negative associations without facts to back it up is sufficient for most non- thinking voters. Thats why the GOP raises this money. Smearing works. Heck Robby is completely bought into it.

Let be assert again.
THINKING IS GOOD!!
BEWARE OF THOSE WHO DON'T WANT YOU TO THINK!!!

dbguru

i don't agree. he flip flops like the dead fish he is.

very truly yours,
a dumb ass.

[or rectum (rectum, i nearly killed em) if ass is unacceptal]

no you can't. now take your meds and rest until i call you.

First, Rick, you're a freak!

bd, great post. See we should all just applaud Bush for having the foresight and diplomatic skills of a rhino. The educated realize that in coming to important resolutions, compromises must be made; whereas, the uneducated think that good 'ol fashion Texas resolve/bravado is what the rest of the world needs to have shoved down it's throat (Toby Keith music in the background).

YYYYEEEEEEEE!!!!!!HAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!

....bring it, pleibs.....

Sonny, I know you think President Bush is a thoroughly uneducated, uninformed hick who can't do ANYTHING on his own. That's fine, we're all entitled to our opinions (well, of course we on the right aren't exactly ALLOWED to talk about ours, are we?!), but you're not also talking negatively about our war against terrorism (that we're FINALLY waging, after many years of it being a one sided battle), are you? I sure hope not.
Not attacking, just curious.

Ok, good to hear. Thanks for the response.

"You're Never Alone With A Schizophrenic" - Ian Hunter
There is alot to be said about talking to oneselves.

I REALLY DARE YOU TO RESPOND TO THIS ONE. AND RESPOND, NOT BLAST, NOT BS, BUT ANSWER THE FRICKEN QUESTION. AS IT WAS POSED.

I think the sun will come up tomorrow. Wait, no I don't (look at me! I'm compromising! I'm looking at both sides of the issue like D f'ing B and John F'ing Kerry). Maybe it will, but then again, maaaaaaybbbbbbeeee it won't! If you think it will, then vote for me! If you think it won't then vote for me! I'm not flip-flopping, I'm being intelligent, I'm being contemplative! I'm considering all sides of the issue. When I make up my mind (after tomorrow AM, I'll let you know, and I'll claim that this was my position all along!)

Robby

do you really think shouting will get your point across?

anyone firmly fixed to his singular ideas is not listening to any input. little w is known to respond to new input by saying he doesn't believe it and will deal with things at a gut level feeling.

See, I can compromise too.


J

how can it not be a flip flop?

"my view on abortion is that it should be offered at no cost for any female of any age who becomes pregnant for any reason, and there should be no limit on how many she can have. also, abortion should be taught in junior high sex education classes as a valid alternative to birth control.

that said, i would consider appointing a justice to the supreme court who doesn't share my views on abortion. ultimately, however, we must at the very least agree that an adult woman's right to choose will not be eroded. we may, however, disagree on where and how that line should be drawn."

there ya go. :)

(and no, that's not my personal view; just showing how both things could be said truthfully and with no contradiction).

Robby...
I don't do these boards 24 hours a day... I do take a break from it in the evenings to go enjoy a cigar..From the tone of your last posts.. seems like you shouls too.

Funny you bring up the Abortion thing. As a Catholic Kerry is against abortion as a matter of personal religious belief but is pro-choice as a matter of public policy on the grounds that religious personal beliefs shouldn't dictate government policy.

You seem like you really like the label "flip flop"....

OK here's some great examples of flip flop

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=42263


c=biJRJ8OVF&b=42263



. Department of Homeland Security

BUSH OPPOSES THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY..."So, creating a Cabinet office doesn't solve the problem. You still will have agencies within the federal government that have to be coordinated. So the answer is that creating a Cabinet post doesn't solve anything." [White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, 3/19/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY "So tonight, I ask the Congress to join me in creating a single, permanent department with an overriding and urgent mission: securing the homeland of America and protecting the American people." [President Bush, Address to the Nation, 6/6/02]

2. Weapons of Mass Destruction

BUSH SAYS WE FOUND THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION..."We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories…for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them." [President Bush, Interview in Poland, 5/29/03]

...BUSH SAYS WE HAVEN'T FOUND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION "David Kay has found the capacity to produce weapons. And when David Kay goes in and says we haven't found stockpiles yet, and there's theories as to where the weapons went. They could have been destroyed during the war. Saddam and his henchmen could have destroyed them as we entered into Iraq. They could be hidden. They could have been transported to another country, and we'll find out." [President Bush, Meet the Press, 2/7/04]

3. Free Trade

BUSH SUPPORTS FREE TRADE... "I believe strongly that if we promote trade, and when we promote trade, it will help workers on both sides of this issue." [President Bush in Peru, 3/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS RESTRICTIONS ON TRADE "In a decision largely driven by his political advisers, President Bush set aside his free-trade principles last year and imposed heavy tariffs on imported steel to help out struggling mills in Pennsylvania and West Virginia, two states crucial for his reelection." [Washington Post, 9/19/03]

4. Osama Bin Laden

BUSH WANTS OSAMA DEAD OR ALIVE... "I want justice. And there's an old poster out West, I recall, that says, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive.'" [President Bush, on Osama Bin Laden, 09/17/01]

...BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT OSAMA "I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important." [President Bush, Press Conference, 3/13/02]

5. The Environment

BUSH SUPPORTS MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE... "[If elected], Governor Bush will work to…establish mandatory reduction targets for emissions of four main pollutants: sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, mercury and carbon dioxide." [Bush Environmental Plan, 9/29/00]

...BUSH OPPOSES MANDATORY CAPS ON CARBON DIOXIDE "I do not believe, however, that the government should impose on power plants mandatory emissions reductions for carbon dioxide, which is not a 'pollutant' under the Clean Air Act." [President Bush, Letter to Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE), 3/13/03]

6. WMD Commission

BUSH RESISTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE... "The White House immediately turned aside the calls from Kay and many Democrats for an immediate outside investigation, seeking to head off any new wide-ranging election-year inquiry that might go beyond reports already being assembled by congressional committees and the Central Intelligence Agency." [NY Times, 1/29/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION ON WMD INTELLIGENCE FAILURE "Today, by executive order, I am creating an independent commission, chaired by Governor and former Senator Chuck Robb, Judge Laurence Silberman, to look at American intelligence capabilities, especially our intelligence about weapons of mass destruction." [President Bush, 2/6/04]

7. Creation of the 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11." [CBS News, 5/23/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CREATION OF INDEPENDENT 9/11 COMMISSION "President Bush said today he now supports establishing an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks." [ABC News, 09/20/02]

8. Time Extension for 9/11 Commission

BUSH OPPOSES TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION... "President Bush and House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) have decided to oppose granting more time to an independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks." [Washington Post, 1/19/04]

...BUSH SUPPORTS TIME EXTENSION FOR 9/11 COMMISSION "The White House announced Wednesday its support for a request from the commission investigating the September 11, 2001 attacks for more time to complete its work." [CNN, 2/4/04]

9. One Hour Limit for 9/11 Commission Testimony

BUSH LIMITS TESTIMONY IN FRONT OF 9/11 COMMISSION TO ONE HOUR... "President Bush and Vice President ****** Cheney have placed strict limits on the private interviews they will grant to the federal commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks, saying that they will meet only with the panel's top two officials and that Mr. Bush will submit to only a single hour of questioning, commission members said Wednesday." [NY Times, 2/26/04]

...BUSH SETS NO TIMELIMIT FOR TESTIMONY "The president's going to answer all of the questions they want to raise. Nobody's watching the clock." [White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 3/10/04]

10. Gay Marriage

BUSH SAYS GAY MARRIAGE IS A STATE ISSUE... "The state can do what they want to do. Don't try to trap me in this state's issue like you're trying to get me into." [Gov. George W. Bush on Gay Marriage, Larry King Live, 2/15/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT BANNING GAY MARRIAGE "Today I call upon the Congress to promptly pass, and to send to the states for ratification, an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of man and woman as husband and wife." [President Bush, 2/24/04]

11. Nation Building

BUSH OPPOSES NATION BUILDING... "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road." [Gov. George W. Bush, 10/3/00]

...BUSH SUPPORTS NATION BUILDING "We will be changing the regime of Iraq, for the good of the Iraqi people." [President Bush, 3/6/03]

12. Saddam/al Qaeda Link

BUSH SAYS IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEEN AL QAEDA AND SADDAM... "You can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror." [President Bush, 9/25/02]

...BUSH SAYS SADDAM HAD NO ROLE IN AL QAEDA PLOT "We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11." [President Bush, 9/17/03]

13. U.N. Resolution

BUSH VOWS TO HAVE A UN VOTE NO MATTER WHAT... "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council. And so, you bet. It's time for people to show their cards, to let the world know where they stand when it comes to Saddam." [President Bush 3/6/03]

...BUSH WITHDRAWS REQUEST FOR VOTE "At a National Security Council meeting convened at the White House at 8:55 a.m., Bush finalized the decision to withdraw the resolution from consideration and prepared to deliver an address to the nation that had already been written." [Washington Post, 3/18/03]

14. Involvement in the Palestinian Conflict

BUSH OPPOSES SUMMITS... "Well, we've tried summits in the past, as you may remember. It wasn't all that long ago where a summit was called and nothing happened, and as a result we had significant intifada in the area." [President Bush, 04/05/02]

...BUSH SUPPORTS SUMMITS "If a meeting advances progress toward two states living side by side in peace, I will strongly consider such a meeting. I'm committed to working toward peace in the Middle East." [President Bush, 5/23/03]

15. Campaign Finance

BUSH OPPOSES MCCAIN-FEINGOLD... "George W. Bush opposes McCain-Feingold...as an infringement on free expression." [Washington Post, 3/28/2000]

...BUSH SIGNS MCCAIN-FEINGOLD INTO LAW "[T]his bill improves the current system of financing for Federal campaigns, and therefore I have signed it into law." [President Bush, at the McCain-Feingold singing ceremony, 03/27/02]

Source, ME!

it was hyperbole

Robby .. I posted the source

This is not a "political debate". This is a boxing match.

Guys... you have to be in a ring, with gloves and a crowd to box. It works GREAT on television. Not so good on a CPU bulletin board.

Although I too, have been goaded into bulletin board boxing bouts. (say that 3 times fast... then don't take yourself so seriously) :-)

Robby

i've heard of the rose and the super, but i never heard of the hyper.

You know Rick, this does not happen very often but I have to agree with you. I will not vote for Kerry, but I don't have much desire to vote for Bush either. He has shown some characteristics as a president that are good, but he definitely has his share of bad ones also.

Can I write in Wesley Clark? Or McCain?

J