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Kerry flips off Vietnam Vet
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Gene363 Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,836
What a thread!

Here is a little background from, not a neo-fascist but a humor writer, Dave Barry, (a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist whose work is carried by more than 500 newspapers in the U.S. and abroad) concluded a 2003 article about potential presidential candidates with the following observation:

“…In conclusion, I want to extend my sincere best wishes to all of my opponents, Republican and Democrat, and to state that, in the unlikely event I am not elected, I will support whoever is, even if it is Sen. John Kerry, who once came, with his entourage, into a ski-rental shop in Ketchum, Idaho, where I was waiting patiently with my family to rent snowboards, and Sen. Kerry used one of his lackeys to flagrantly barge in line ahead of us and everybody else, as if he had some urgent senatorial need for a snowboard, like there was about to be an emergency meeting, out on the slopes, of the Joint Halfpipe Committee. I say it's time for us, as a nation, to put this unpleasant incident behind us. I know that I, for one, have forgotten all about it. That is how fair and balanced I am.”
bassdude Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 5:28 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
Steve - I don't think the fact that he flipped off a scumbag matters it is the act, where it occurred and the audience.
Robby Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
DB, I'll answer all of your questions, I will answer them as soon as you answer mine and not before. You’re avoiding my question and I don’t know why. Am I being unreasonable by asking a question? Is it unreasonable to ask this question? Have I been unruly? Outrageous? Unreasonable? Bombastic? No, have you been incendiary? Pompous? Evasive? YES!

"Answer the question, if he did it, was it childish or presidential? Why do you run from this question? What about it scares you?"

As soon as you answer my very reasonable question, I’ll gladly answer any question you pose, but you seem to be shivering in the corner and wetting your panties for some reason over this simple question. Why?
uncleb Offline
#54 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
I can close my eyes and see my 7 year old and 9 year old having this same little childish, petty argument.

"No I won't answer your question until you answer mine"
"I asked you first"
"Did not"
"Did too"
"Liar"
"I know you are but what am I?"

This is pathetic.


tailgater Offline
#55 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 6:00 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Db,
I'd like to quote you:
" But if all you do is listen to Rush and Sean, read crap from right wing propaganda sites and watch only Fox on TV then you are being systematically brainwashed from reality. Obviously .... you've absorbed so much of this biased propaganda as to render your reasoning ability as somewhat numbed."

Now please take this quote and reverse the accusation. In other words, take "rush and sean" and "fox" et al, and replace with "Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw" and "NBC, CBS, ABC, NY Times" etc.

If you do, You'd HAVE to admit that you're being "systematically brainwashed from reality". Only in the opposite (left) direction.

Now, consider this: Is it easier to come into casual contact with FoxNews (one station) or the three major networks?
Would it be more likely for most Americans to know who Sean Hannity is, or Dan Rather and his crew?

Bottom line is this: If you honestly believe that biased news can skew your political persuasion, than you are likely a victim yourself.

And in case you think there's no bias in the "mainstream", consider this:
How many pictures of the Iraqi prisoner "torture" (I do use that word lightly) have you seen?
Why? Because it paints a negative picture of American soldiers and therefore it's Anti-Commander in Chief.
Now, how many pictures have you seen of a partial birth abortion?
Why not? Because any sane person who witnessed the crushing of an unborn babies skull would double-over with disgust. But then, of course, the liberals might not continue to allow this "Constitutional right".

I know the two scenarios are completely unrelated on the surface. But they are consistent with what you get from mainstream media.
Rush and Hannity and O'Reilly don't "make" the news. They simply report their views and opinions.
But at least they call them opinions.
You can't say THAT for YOUR gang of leftists.

Robby Offline
#56 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
You're right uncleB, DB is pretty pathetic. He won't answer a simple simple simple question. What is he afraid of? Do you know? Was he abused by a liberal like yourself when he was a child? Is he afraid that if he answers truthfully, it may expose the fact that his man (JFK) is a psycho? What could it be? It's facinating, the way he avoides the question... Don't you agree? Please answer the question uncleB
Robby Offline
#57 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 7:07 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Gater, it's too late, he's gone. As Bones said, "he's dead Jim"... UncleB? Could you answer the question I posed to DB? I pose it now to you. Can you answer it? Or would you rather throw up examples about your children and dodge the question rather than answer it?
Robby Offline
#58 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 7:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
It's not a hard question, why is it so vexing to you liberals? What is it about this question that has you stymied?
uncleb Offline
#59 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 8:13 PM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Nice try Robby. As was obvious by my post, I think you are BOTH a couple of childish little bores that never learned how to converse at more than a 3rd grade level.

As for answering your inane question, you can keep pinging DB until your hearts content. I learned long ago to ignore those that add no value.

Definitions:

inane
Without contents; empty; void of sense or intelligence; purposeless; pointless; characterless; useless.


Bore
One that is wearingly dull, repetitive, or tedious.

Converse
Familiar discourse; free interchange of thoughts or views; conversation; chat.




dbguru Offline
#60 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 11:11 PM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Robby...

In the US justice system your question is leading and hypothetical and irrelevant.

Objection your honor

Sustained

Get the point??


dbguru Offline
#61 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 11:12 PM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Ooo I forgot.. you don't like those trial lawyers either... oh well
dbguru Offline
#62 Posted: Wed, Jun 2 2004, 11:28 PM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Gater...
I do watch Fox almost every day....
I also listen to Rush and many other right wing talk show hosts.
More sources is better..

tailgater Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 5:03 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I'm glad you watch/listen to numerous sources for your infomration.
Why then do you think that those with differing oppinions from yours are somehow brainwashed by the same shows you claim to listen to objectively? Is your liberal mind that much stronger than those on the right? Doesn't that reek of self-grandure?

Why is EVERY vote for Bush a "neo-con" and fascist?

Some may indeed fall into your categories, but when you paint with such a broad stroke you diminish the point you were trying to achieve.

Bush has many weak points.
Kerry has zero strong points.

I'm from Massachusetts so I've seen his inaction for years. Never has a politician embodied so many of the negative stereotypes that usually are cast in hyperbole.

MACS Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 7:08 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
Okay. I must stoop down and be extremely immature for a minute. Indulge me.

dbguru... i'd love to debate you in the "squared circle". Not because you feel one way and I feel another on certain issues, but just because. I've read your posts for a few months now, and while I admit, others attack you just as much... it seems all you do is attack people and their views. Ya know, I probably do the same thing at times, so I really shouldn't be throwing stones in my glass house... BUT

Just the same... i'd like to punch you a few times. LMAO ;-)

Okay. My immature moment has passed. Thanks for indulging me!
dbguru Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 7:29 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Gater Gater Gater....

Why is EVERY vote for Bush a "neo-con" and fascist?
You draw that conclusion not me. The fact is that the Bush administration operates more like a Fascist government than any other administration in American history. Check out

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

So many will vote for Bush without understanding this. Does that mean they are Fascist?? probably not. But are they supporting Fascism? Perhaps unknowingly but certainly a vote for Bush does support an administration that operates more like a fascist government than anything we have seen in most of our lifetimes. Thats the conclusion on my end.. nothing more nothing less.

Gater
You made the point on many occassions that your from Massachusetts and implying that your opinion about Kerry carries more weight because of that... Hogwash, I say!!! Besides I have at least 40 members of my family from El Paso, San Antonio and Amarillo that think Bush is the biggest jerk in politics. Would you care about that?? Probably not... therefore back to you too..

MAC... OK ... we all need to blow some steam...
Understand completely.. (Maybe a you should buy a Jon Kerry punching bag for Christmas to relieve stress)
Have a nice day, pal!!



johnfs Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 8:00 AM EST
Joined: 01-01-2003
Posts: 2,992
I cann't belive I read the whole thread. I've known dbguru for a while now, and I was quite suprised to find out he is a Kerry camper, I would not call him liberal.

I would also like to compliment his restraint, givin the blanket party treatment.
tailgater Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 8:09 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Db, you're either forgetful or a liar.
I didn't draw any conclusion. Here's your quote: "If you support the administration then it would be untruthful not to call you a neo-con Faschist."
How is that MY conclusion?
You've clearly stated that support (ie a VOTE) for Bush makes you automatically a neo-con Faschist(sic).

As for my geography making me an "expert" on Kerry, no it doesn't. But my opinion on Kerry isn't from information I've read over the last few months, it's from what I've seen over many years.
He is an absentee Senator who is the front runner of the Democratic party only because Howard Dean had a meltdown and nobody knows who John Edwards really is.

Now please get your "facts" straight.

dbguru Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 8:46 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
OK gater..
I get the same frustration from my family reflecting on the ineptitude in the Texas state government when Bush was Governor as well.

Also your so called quote was really not a direct quote but a derived statement made of a couple of sentences that you misrepresented as a quote. Even though you misquoted me I've had a chance to give this some further thought. To say all Bush supporters are supporters of Neo-con fascism is an example of a hyperbolic generalizing assertion. If you want to grill me on being guilty of that... OK fine. Honesty, it is a serious symptom of listening to just way too much right wing talk radio. Their tactics are rubbing off on me way too much. I must of heard dozens of such hyperbolic generalizing assertions directed against liberals from Rush, Sean, Billy O, Laura I and Lars Larson and I'm beginning to adopt the same tactic. Shame on me. My mind is getting a bit numbed too.. see what I mean.

Oh well so let me restate in a less exagerating way more specific way. (and your free to quote me)
1) This administration and its supporters operate in a way that is closer to Fascism than any American administration ever has.
2) Those who support this administration may not recognize (1), but with their vote whether they recognize it ot not, so support the Fascist-like policies that this administration has, does and will continue to pursue.
3) Do most of you neo-cons consider yourselfs to be Fascists?? C'mon .. I know that you don't (yet) except maybe the few in the neo-nazi faction of the neo-con persuation. So I understand your objection to being labeled a Fascist. I should be more sensitive no matter how many facts support my assertion... Therefore I'm sorry to offend you by pointing out your political persuasions. Perhaps in time you'll recognize it (American Fascism) for what it really is and wont be so offended.

Feel better?
DB
Robby Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 9:42 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067

If I had B as one of the primary characters in my handle, I think I'd drop it for fear of being lumped in with cowardly a$$holes like uncle"B" or d"B", both of which are too skeered to answer a simple question.

====

How is it childish to view Kerry’s alleged actions as dangerous?
Everyone knows the POTUS is the most powerful job in the world.
Yet, the Kerry apologists feel fine with a flatulent finger flipper.

Unless I miss my guess, he’ll lose.
Never the less, his rabid support by those
Clearly blind to little things like facts and reality
Leave me to wonder about the future of our nation.
Everyone who believes
Bush would be worse than “ANYONE” is un-American.

But they are entitled to their wrong-headed opinions.
Leftists, liberals, socialists, “Greens” will be with us unfortunately.
On the other hand, they can always serve as a bad example
We can hold them up as what to avoid…

Me, I believe I’m in the majority.
Everyone over 30 “with a brain”.

(use your secret decoder ring)

Main Entry: 1pussy
Pronunciation: 'pu-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural puss·ies
Etymology: 1puss
1 : CAT
2 : a catkin of the **** willow
johnfs Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 9:47 AM EST
Joined: 01-01-2003
Posts: 2,992
I want the last word.
johnfs Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 9:51 AM EST
Joined: 01-01-2003
Posts: 2,992
That's right people under thirty do not have brains.
uncleb Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 9:59 AM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Well then we should just start calling you ROY then.
bassdude Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 10:01 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
I do not consider myself a neo-con, more of a moderate who leans right BUT 'B' is the first letter of my moniker so now I have to take a trip to Georgia and whip Robby's azz to show that I am not a ****.
Robby Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 10:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Not true bass, while the b is part of the moniker, it is not indicitative of a name, like DB, or uncle"B". I for instance have two "b's" in my handle, but they do not signify a name in and of it's self. Please stand down ;-)
Robby Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 10:34 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Not true bass, while the b is part of the moniker, it is not indicitative of a name, like DB, or uncle"B". I for instance have two "b's" in my handle, but they do not signify a name in and of it's self. Please stand down ;-)
bassdude Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 10:35 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
comprende.
johnfs Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 12:31 PM EST
Joined: 01-01-2003
Posts: 2,992
Robby you missed the point.
MACS Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 1:10 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,817
db - I wasn't blowin' off steam... I was just throwin' gas on a fire. It was burning nicely and started to dwindle a little bit, so I figured what the hell...

if ya read it real close you'll find that... well... okay fine, you really won't find anything. ;-)
Sylance Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
Wow, I kinda wished I jumped in on this earlier… I’m missing the fun!!

Here’s my neo-con outlook on this. The fact that Kerry flipped off someone really doesn’t matter to me. In fact, I’m actually surprised and happy to see he took a stance on something. I wish more politicians would tell people to f-off.

However… the fact that he did this on Memorial Day to a veteran shows lack of judgment and restraint. Does this one incident summarize everything about Kerry’s character? Probably not…but if I look at this, his defense voting record, his actions after his return from Vietnam and his current “exit strategy” in Iraq, it tells me a bit more about it character, and it scares me to death.

(Note that “exit strategy” is in quotes… this is from Kerry’s own mouth. He does not say his plan to win in Iraq, but his plan to get our troops out.)
tailgater Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 5:50 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Db,
I DID quote you. I cut and paste from earlier in this thread. I didn't add punctuation nor capitals.
It is a DIRECT Quote.
Yet, here's your rebuttal (cut and paste again): "your so called quote was really not a direct quote but a derived statement made of a couple of sentences that you misrepresented as a quote."

You're so caught up in the attention that this thread is bringing to you that you fail to recognize what you yourself have stated on these boards.

Or perhaps you simply don't want to admit it.
Either way, you're not impressing anybody.

I liked it better when you took the simpleton approach and called everyone a "Faschist". At least it was your own opinion and not an attempt to impress others with your vast resources and your ability to avoid the brainwashing that all others have succumbed to.

We genuflect to your enlightened spirit.

But that must be the fascist in me speaking...
dbguru Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Jun 3 2004, 7:45 PM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Gater, your tunnel vision focus on a single quote has blinded you to the whole rest of the message. Must have trouble seeing the forest through the trees if all you look at is one tree.

You have no idea what motivates me to post on these political topics. Yes I do have some softspoken fans who don't post a lot but in all honest I love mixing it up with you neo-con guys

A Because its an enjoyable challenge.

B To give you opportunties to defend your assertions.

C To demonstrate your the depth of your thinking. Or lack thereof.

D Some of you neo-cons would be bored to death if you didn't have a guy like me to banter with. Right?? All you'd do is post meaningless threads and posts like

Right wing propaganda copy and paste
Yo Robby you are so right....
What Gater said...
So true
yeh yeh good stuff Hog!!!
Liberals are bad...
(And other evolved forms of Neandrethal expression)

E demonstrate to our readers that there are other points of view among the BOTL. Heck Clinton loves a good cigar.

F because I believe with all my heart that the neo-con agenda is a very dangerous course for this country to take and that it needs to be completely exposed for what it is.

OK so in the end... just trying to keep life interesting and help you recognize that there is a world out there that isn't just black and white.

Hope you appreciate that. I know some of you do even if you disagree with me
Robby Offline
#82 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 4:46 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
tailgater is no more of a neo-con than you are a thinking rational individual.
dbguru Offline
#83 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 7:17 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Robby who are you to judge??
Robby Offline
#84 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 7:47 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
Not a judgment, merely an observation. He has expressed many many times his dislike for many of the Bush Administration policies. Unless I'm confusing him for someone else. And I believe he said he was going to vote for Kerry? Gater? Do I have you confused with someone else? And if not, then your broad brush ad-homonym attacks havejust been shown for what they are... "LAME!"
Robby Offline
#85 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 7:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
I may be confusing him with Homebrew. If so, SORRY!
dbguru Offline
#86 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 8:28 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Well your observational skills need a lot of work based on the assertions you just made Robby...

I've never seen anything coming out of Gater in support of Kerry and even you can find some fault in Bush so that assertion is trivial. Me - broad brush Ad Hominem?? No broad brush here. My posts gets into a lot of specifics it you read through them which I know you do. Ad hominem , my 3 years of high school Latin translates that into against a man but I'm sure you've noticed that my comments are not limited to one man but to the policies and actions of all the neo-cons who are supporters and operatives with the Bush Administration, not just Bush. Ad Hominem would imply my attacks are purely focused on Bush himself.

So your assertion of my "broad brush Ad hominem " attacks is again an example of oservation skills that are caught in a fog...

Both me and most of the readers know right now you are not being observational at all, but pretty damned judgemental toward me persoanlly. And personally I don't think we need any of that crap out here on the board. Direct your judgementalism somewhere else.

I'm so tired these typical neo-con language deceptions.
dbguru Offline
#87 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 8:30 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
I withhold comment on the spelling of Ad Hominem...(I such a bad misspeller too)
bassdude Offline
#88 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 8:37 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
db instead of spouting all this BS why don't we ever see you on the trades board? Maybe you prefer bickering to cigars?
Charlie Offline
#89 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 8:38 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
you shore are a bad mizzspellur!

C
dbguru Offline
#90 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Well Bassdude the last box pass I did left a sour taste in my mouth on trades. I've made a few trades and am in a birthday club. Plus I herf regularly with the Seattle crew and trade in person. I'm just not all that fired up about the trading scene.

You're welcome to email me about trades if you are interested. (details later)
Robby Offline
#91 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 9:32 AM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
An example of an ad-hominem attack:

’”an example of oservation skills that are caught in a fog...”

When a logical argument escapes one, one may choose to attack the individual. Or in my case, when it’s just plain fun!
tailgater Offline
#92 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 10:04 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
A couple things to note:
1. I will NOT vote for Kerry.
2. I have spoken out against President Bush on certain issues.

Now, with that said, I must once again take offense to what Db is claiming. First, he accused me of mixing sentences in order to achieve a desired result. When I show him that I did not, he accuses me of taking it out of context.
Out of context!
Cripes, we're on the very same thread, and therefore the context is fairly constant. Get your head out of your behind. Deal with the subject at hand. I'm not here to finger-point (pun intended), but when I'm accused of misquoting someone when all I did was cut and paste, then the record has to be set straight.
If you'd like to discuss issues, I'm happy to oblige. But please do not make accusations that are false simply to make you appear more level headed than your posts truly suggest. If I misunderstood your original posts, then perhaps it is the post itself that is misleading. I did read it several times prior to quoting exerpts from it.

But please note this: I honestly DO appreciate your opinions on these boards. It's interesting to see a dissenting viewpoint. These boards would indeed be boring without those misguided few who are left minded......


dbguru Offline
#93 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 11:55 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
At least you are honest Robby..
dbguru Offline
#94 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 12:12 PM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
Gater
"If you'd like to discuss issues, I'm happy to oblige."

Then let's focus on the whole issue in the context of this thread not just one sentence, get it?

No one has yet answered why any other news source picked up this story ... Maybe it didn't happen?? Maybe the report it pure fantasy??

At this point since none of you could address this I'm going to call the initiating post as pure propaganda and perhaps a complete LIE which I don't appreciate one bit.

As far demanding answers to bullcrap hypothetical questions "what IF Kerry flipped...what would you think of that IF he did.." You would never answer such similar questions of Bush like

what IF Bush was trying to revive the Nazi party.. would you still vote for him IF that were true?? (I know most of you would still vote for him if this were true but would never admit to it) Anyway we can agree that such questions are stupid and shouldn't even be raised in a reasonable discussion. Stick this IF questions in the roundfile, please. I'm not dealing with any of them since they are usually not about reality.

Finally, Gater... Calm down dude. This thread is so damn long that I couldn't find my earlier sentence that you definitely quoted.... My apologies ..You did quote me OK feel better? So what .. It was still out of context with this thread about a piece of misleading propaganda about Kerry flipping off a certain A**hole with a long record of dishonorable activities.

DB
CWFoster Offline
#95 Posted: Fri, Jun 4 2004, 2:41 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I just think it's terrible the way the Neo-Libs (Liberals who once followed a principle of helping their fellow man, whether he deserved it or wanted it or not) have taken to blindly following anyone who isn't George Bush, and will turn a blind eye to anything he does, even if he may have been provoked, it's NOT a thing a gentleman does in public, much LESS in front of children. So what do they do? Deny the entire incident! So sad!
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