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Last post 19 years ago by 428cj. 18 replies replies.
unfit for command
cigarsmokin Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2004
Posts: 272
WASHINGTON – It was the news conference John Kerry did not want to see happen.
In a standing-room-only suite at the National Press Club, former “Swiftee” John O’Neill, spokesman for Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, told reporters that the junior U.S. senator from Massachusetts spent 45 minutes on the phone with group founder Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, USN (Ret.), trying to “discourage” the band of brothers from going public with their united sentiment that Kerry is unfit to be the nation’s commander in chief.


The effort failed, and in a 90-minute session one veteran after another described with brutal honesty why he fixed his signature to a public letter to the Democrat candidate condemning Kerry’s allegations of war crimes and demanding that the former decorated Swift Boat skipper authorize the Department of Defense to release all his military records.

The letter, which is the centerpiece of the organization’s efforts, is signed, said O’Neill, by Swift Boat veterans “at all levels and from the entire political spectrum; the entire chain of command during the period Kerry served in Vietnam; veterans who participated in the engagements resulting in his medals; and the majority of officers who served with him in Coastal Division 11, the unit in which he spent most of his abbreviated four-month tour of duty.”

Leading off the parade of vets who trooped up to the podium was Rear Adm. Hoffman, who remarked, “I signed this letter because I do not believe John Kerry is fit to be commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States. This is not a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust – all absolute tenets of command.”

Hoffman, the former commander of Task Force 115, was near the top of Kerry’s chain of command while the senator was a young lieutenant junior grade serving in Vietnam in 1968-69.

Some of the comments:


Veteran Steve Gardner: “I watched him put his crew in jeopardy, his indecisive moves …”
Needs 'Constant Supervision'


Veteran Charles Plumley, who was seriously wounded in Swift Boat river operations combat, described Kerry as “self-absorbed, requiring constant supervision.”

Veteran Robert “Friar Tuck” Brant emotionally described how he was going to visit the Vietnam War Memorial wall right after the press conference and “tell my two dead crewmates” not to pay attention to how Kerry has dishonored them with his charges of nearly universal war crimes and atrocities (referring especially to Kerry's testimony on Capitol Hill in 1971).

Veteran James M. Zumwalt (son of the late Adm. Elmo Zumwalt, former chief of naval operations during Kerry’s tour of duty) chastised Kerry for repeating some of his Capitol Hill “falsehoods” again in the book “Tour of Duty.” “He [Kerry] has a personality disorder.”

Veteran Barnard Wolff: “He needs to clarify that first Purple Heart.”

Veteran Andy Horne: “Kerry left us with the stain of sewage.”

Veteran Robert G. Elder: “We didn’t lose the war on the ground in Vietnam, we lost it at home, and at home John Kerry was the field general.”

Veteran Grant Hibbard: Kerry’s former immediate commander decried the first Purple Heart award. “I received the report on the mission; there had been no enemy fire.” Hibbard went on to explain that his only information was that Kerry himself had perhaps fired an M-79 grenade at the shore and got “scratched” from his own friendly fire. “There was no medical treatment. To this day I have no information [re the medal] on how or whom.”
But O’Neill told NewsMax.com that the medals and their back stories were not the real issue being targeted by the organization, referring to the second paragraph of the letter to Kerry:

'Grossly and Knowingly Distorted'

“It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen of that war (including a betrayal of many of us, without regard for the danger your actions caused us.) Further, we believe that you have withheld and/or distorted material facts as to your own conduct in this war.”

But it is with regard to the latter sentence of the charge that O’Neill and others get vague.

When asked by NewsMax if they had in mind any potential smoking gun of distortion that might be revealed by an unfettered examination of Kerry’s military records, there was no answer forthcoming.

The organization’s letter to Kerry ends with:

“Senator Kerry, we were there. We know the truth. We have been silent long enough. The stakes are too great, not only for America in general but, most important, for those who have followed us into service in Iraq and Afghanistan. We call upon you to provide a full, accurate accounting of your conduct in Vietnam.”

At the time of this writing Kerry's campaign headquarters, only blocks away from the Press Club, had no response to the letter or the news conference.

O’Neill, however, made it clear that the group was not on the Kerry camp's hit parade, making reference to the fact that some were referring to his organization as a collection of “bitter alcoholics.”

The 30-some Swift Boat vets on hand for the press meeting said that there was no political agenda and that they gained no joy from the enterprise but considered it a hallowed duty. As O’Neill said in his opening remarks:

“We endorse nobody. If a fit choice [for president] emerged, we would all be going home.”

O'Neill, an attorney in Houston, served in the same naval unit as Kerry and commanded Kerry's Swift Boat after Kerry left country.

Kerry's tour of duty lasted four months, ending at his own request after he received his third Purple Heart. According to naval regulations at the time, any service member who received three Purple Hearts could request a transfer out of the combat zone.

O'Neill is perhaps best remembered for his debate with Kerry in 1971 on "The ****** Cavett Show." He fought Kerry's allegations that many Vietnam soldiers had routinely engaged in atrocities. At the time Kerry was the spokesman for the anti-war group Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Appearing on "Meet the Press in 1971, Kerry said that he and other U.S. troops committed "atrocities" in Vietnam. To this day he will not give details of what "atrocities" he committed.

Appearing on "Meet the Press" last month, he said: "I think the word ['atrocities'] is a bad word. I think it's an inappropriate word. The words were honest, but on the other hand they were a little bit over the top. I don't like it when I hear it today
428cj Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
All lies. According to the documents rickamaven posted here Kerry was a stellar model for our military.

What would the guys who actually served with him know anyway? Oh.... I get it now, they must all be "bush loving fools", to quote rickamaven.
bassdude Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
This sums up my reason for being antiKerry:

" It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness, reliability, loyalty and trust – all absolute tenets of command.”
xibbumbero Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
I thought this was about dubya...you know being AWOL and all...from the National guard no less,LOL. X
bassdude Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
come on X being AWOL from NG and being reckless in combat just does not compare.
xibbumbero Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
Bassdude,no it does not compare. Much like being in combat does not compare to being AWOL from the National Guard. X
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
those people did not serve with kerry. they ae full of crap and are part of bush's attack propeganda. if you read what kerry's senior officers said about him, at the time he was serving, and if you listened to a man whose life he saved, and if you have brains enough to know that bush is a psychotic nut case, oh, that is a redundancy ("they'll never notice and don't understand a redudundacy anyway" he realized), you could see through this latest BS.

but the picture of bush with the halo was so impressive that some think of him as "god's" messenger, then faith alone will get you to the top of the mountain, where you can keep your heads in the clouds insted of where they are now, where the moon don't shine.
bassdude Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
Rick, they DID serve with Kerry.
uncleb Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
This quote says it all about these candidates:

“We endorse nobody. If a fit choice [for president] emerged, we would all be going home.”

This tells me they dislike Bush as much as Kerry. So it's back to square one on this issue.


428cj Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
Rickamaven wrote: "and if you have brains enough to know that bush is a psychotic nut case"

I guess you're the only smart one here. Congratulations. I bow down to your superior intellect.

Slow down and calm down Rick, sounds like you're really getting upset with all this. Name calling and related personal attacks won't change my mind either, just so you know. Nice try though. With your seemingly vastly superior intelligence you should have known this already, just wanted to remind you.
Charlie Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rick has been burning a cross for GWB for 4 years plus and he will continue to do so!

Charlie
428cj Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
Yup! It'll get really ugly if there's another four years too. Wow!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
bassdude

no my friend, they served at the same time, not with him. the three that served with him have a different story.

none of which has anything to do with the crap your meglomaniac appointed president has done to the country including 5 million + jobs lost.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
428cj

sometimes i lose my cool.

if there is 4 more bush years, i suspect this board will revert to a misc board and all political discussions will sink into the mire.

until jeb runs or is annointed. i'd rather have the other brother whose wife is divorcing him, you know the one that had hookers knocking at his door and didn't know they were paid for by his hosts.

i hope the twins are not put before a mike at the convention, i'd hate to see them embarass themselves to furthur their father's career.

further their father, isn't that an old joke
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Charlie

i have no religious affiliations and i burn only cigars. you know it is illegal to burn things in ca.
428cj Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
"sometimes i lose my cool"

Ok, whatever. Remember though, I don't here. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I participate on these boards for FUN!

Just please READ my posts before getting all huffy again. Kind of funny really when you're YELLING at me to not get emotional about something I wasn't even upset about in the first place!

Again, the whole entertainment thing for me!!
bassdude Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2004
Posts: 8,871
Rick, we must have different definitions of with.

But most of the officers who served with Kerry have not endorsed him and resent their images being used to tout the candidate. In one famous photo, which Kerry has used on his Website and campaign literature, the young Kerry is pictured with 19 other Swift boat officers in charge of Coastal Division 11. But only one of the 23 officers who served with Kerry in Coastal Division 11 has actually endorsed Kerry. Indeed the overwhelming majority of other officers who served in his unit at the time have opposed his candidacy for U.S. president, including every single officer under whom Kerry served in Vietnam. Some of Kerry's fellow officers have formed an organization called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
bassdude

i guess you did not read his fitness reports written at the time of his service by his superior officers.

the swift boat site is funded by one of bush's big contributers. he seeded it with $100,000. a small price to pay to receive his tax break and to maintain it should bush become president again, by hook or by crook.

i know JFK won the election by some dirty voting in chicago that swung the election to him. at least he tried to do his best for the country instead of using it for personal gain for his backers. he even sent his AG after the mafia that helped him win.

whether it was the mafia or some political opponents that had him murdered, we will never know, because it was covered up by the warren commission. if anyone one is dumb enough to believe oswald was the lone assassin he or she is niave.

jfk, king, and bobby all murdered. why do the liberals get murdered and not the conservatives. i wish no harm to anyone, just asking a pointed question.
428cj Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
Rickamaven, you still prefer to ignore Kerry's OWN admissions that he committed several war crimes and 'atrocities'. It's a little disturbing this means nothing to you.

Selective ideals, huh?
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