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For those of you who insist on bringing up how many of our brave warriors have died in the war in Iraq (900+), well here is a figure I just saw on the news, 42,653 Americans died in traffic accidents in 2003.

JonR

John Kerry supported a $.50 per gallon gas tax that would have prevented many of these deaths.

Indeed, those 900+ could still be alive today. And tomorrow. And probably next week, but then they would have watched in horror as a terrorist attack killed another 3-4000 civilians and they would have thought "I would have given anything to have prevented that, even my life".

J

cala, are you serious? If you believe that by declaring war on Saddam any terroist threat in the US will be eliminated, then I have some beachfront property for sale in New Mexico for ya'!

Do remember, we are talking about IRAQ NOT AFGANISTAN! ....very big difference. Going after Osama Bin Laden was/is justified and necessary.

I bet you are a Toby Keith fan! LOL

Ok, JR., you are actually trying to compare vehicular death statistics with those who have lost their life because of a selfish man's personal agenda.......PUHHHLLEEEZZZZ!

That analogy is down right stupid!

While your at it why don't we compare those who have died from cancer with it as well.......hell, those people were probably smoking, eating fatty foods, living near high voltage lines, or something!!!!

Traffic deaths vs. War casualties!!!

I mean, REALLY?

Yo Sonny_LSU:

My analogy was that we all die, we die young, we die old, and we die in between. Some die peaceably in their sleep and some die horrific deaths, but we all die. If I had a choice I would rather die fighting for a just cause than say, killed by an automobile whose driver is arguing on his cell phone with his wife over what side dish to have for dinner that night, or some **** who thinks he can drink a dozen shots of whiskey and still be okay to drive.

Those that fight in the war in Iraq and die, well it was just their time to die and those who are killed in automobile accidents, well it was just their time to die also.

JonR

ele, I caught that as I hit the send button.......I take the dumbass on that one.....esp. when I was trying to be witty!

What does Toby Keith have to do with anything? About like Don Henley and Bruce Springsteen........entertainers, and if they were worth their salt they would be entertaining the troops and not protesting while making mega millions off the concerts!

Kerry being a fool, and one who cannot make up his mind one way or the other, and then reversal of thought later.......that is a serious problem! We do not need someone like that in office. Reminds me of the spineless Mr Luebner!

Charlie

Here Sonny and AVB, here's your Unneccesary War...
Pictures
http://massgraves.info/

FACTS
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
Since the Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported. By mid-January, 2004, the number of confirmed sites climbed to fifty-three. Some graves hold a few dozen bodies—their arms lashed together and the bullet holes in the backs of skulls testimony to their execution. Other graves go on for hundreds of meters, densely packed with thousands of bodies.

"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair on November 20 in London. The United Nations, the U.S. State Department, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch (HRW) all estimate that Saddam Hussein's regime murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. "Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades," said the group in a statement in May. "Many of these 'disappeared' are those whose remains are now being unearthed in mass graves all over Iraq."

If these numbers prove accurate, they represent a crime against humanity surpassed only by the Rwandan genocide of 1994, Pol Pot's Cambodian killing fields in the 1970s, and the Nazi Holocaust of World War II.

and you who b!tch about this being a war just for Oil or one mans Personal War, can Kiss my A$$.... we should have ended his Regime in 1991 plain and simple...

There's your Numbers and this is why American Military men and women are in Iraq right now... to keep this from happening again and establishing a Democracy that some of you left wing liberals don't even want in your own country!!!!

Hog

Remember, Russell, just because you believe something with all of your heart does NOT make it true. You are a passionate individual, but you do tend to get misguided at times (as do all of us).

Charlie, GW was NOT on a humanitarian mission. You right wing nut jobs don't just spin something, rather you just pull it out of thin air all in the name of good ol' GW and keeping the barbarian hords from over running our country, killing our children, and raping our women...........

keeping the barbarian hords from over running our country, killing our children, and raping our women...........

Sonny I didn't know you were into Bondage??

You want this in America?? can't get enough of it from Reality TV or the 6 O'Clock News?? have you seen a doctor about these obsessions??

One thing we haven't had is an over run of Hords of Barbarian Terrorist preforming the acts of 911 or other here on American Soil since GW took the War to them on their Soil... but this Opresses you??

Nut Jobs??? WTF...

I've always wanted to ask you Sonny.. was you the WaterBoy on the Football team?? did you get a 4 yr free ride for hauling Gator Aid to the Gladiators??










Ok that was Slant... but backlash for being called a Nut Job LMAO!!!!!!

Hog

"4th strongest high school player in the COUNTRY my senior year"

Was that the Right Guard roll-on challenge Sonny?

(First, since when is it our DUTY to impose democracy on everyone on the planet? I am all for it; however, there are places in this world that don't necessarily want the US to come in and set-up their government for them.)

Nope thats why we/the world has the UN... think "One World Order"... (and I'm not for that)... but I don't think any country should have to endure the hardships by a dictator, especially one like Saddam was...

Secondly, we need to start another thread (Were are they Now?) sorry to hear about the knee blow-outs...

I've had a few blow-outs in my careers at times also which had me change course and keep on ticking..
now I'm 40 yrs old and heading back to school and different Career field instead of learning how to Kill People I'm gunna learn how to Help People ;0)~~~ and get paid to do it!!!

Hog

Don't worry! If Kerry is elected he will do away with the combustion engine, just like Gore, and the traffic deaths will go way down. Then again, maybe he won't!

Sonny you said "Funny......he ran from serving in Vietnam but is more than willing to send everyone else's husbands, wives, sons, and daughters into harms way.)"
Would you apply that same statement to Bill Clinton in regards to Kosovo and Bosnia. Hummm what about Somolia
Don't bother with an answer Sonny. I already know where your heart and head are.

Yep I guess the soldiers that died under Clintons command mean nothing to you. Its all in the numbers right?

And as far as Iraq. What is your answer. Just withdrawl all our troops and sit back and wait for the Muslim/Terrorist (interchangeable words in my mind)
To come to the USA and then we can do the fighting over here. No one said it was gonna be a cake walk. Make no mistake about it. If we were not there they would be here. They will still bring the fight to our door. But to think that leaving Iraq will curtail that is wishful thinking.
I do beleive that we should do one of two things in Iraq. Either get out now or go all in now. What we are doing now there is not what the military is trained to do. The US military is better at attacking the enemy than being a police force trying to maintain peace . This holy war has been going on for centuries and will continue for many more. Only in the last 40 years has it had an effect on the US. before that we as a country were blisfully ignorant. After 9-11 we received a wake up call. The question now is what to do about it. Do we fight or just line up for the beheadings. One thing for sure is, diplomacy will not work with these people
Sonny answer this for me. What do you think Kerry would do that would protect us more than what Bush is doing?
Thats a question I have asked on the board many times but have never gotten an answer from anyone

Also, what the hell is Bush doing to protect us????

Iraq? Nope.....try again.

"Bush the Great Protector" - now that is funny........."in the news today, another roadside bomb goes off outside of Fallujah killing 2 US Marines and wounding 4 others" (sound familiar?)..........good job ol' GW! YEEE HAWWWWW

puke

What would Kerry do? hmmmmmmmm

Ever here of the saying, "Don't poke an angry bear with a short stick"?

Well, Bush has a rather large stick and loves to poke it. Now, situations such as Afganistan are more than necessary, but Iraq........you know my stance.

How does this relate to Kerry? Well, the man understands the importance of diplomacy. Bullying the rest of the world into buying into our agenda will most definitely bite us on the @ss eventually, at least economically. With a more diplomatic approach to the rest of the world (excluding terrorists....don't spin) we stand a chance at improving wide-spread communications among nations that have otherwise written us off in terms of cooperating in the "war on terror".

Another old saying, "you get more flies with honey.......".

Giving the rest of the world the old number one (Bush) is far less productive than trying to set-up lines of communication (Kerry).

I am not referring to pandering nations that want to "hurt" us. I am referring to old allies and neutral nations we have lost touch with.......come on, man.....stop trying to spin everything!

Yo Sonny_LSU;

Your statement:

"JR., my football bio was a rebutle to Russell rather than a chest-thumping episode.

Now, by all means, our country needs every single able-bodied young person to join the military (whatever)......actually, with GW it may actually be the case, otherwise he is going to eventually tap into our "retired vets/reserves". (Funny......he ran from serving in Vietnam but is more than willing to send everyone else's husbands, wives, sons, and daughters into harms way.) I respect those who proudly serve in our armed forces......that does not necessarily include the GED-clad would be bum who joined the military so he/she wouldn't be homeless. Just by virtue of being in the military does NOT entitle one to be automatically revered......some of these individuals had no other choice other than joining the armed forces (see previous GED statement)."

Yo Sonny:

You hit the nail right on the head, those GED people are so dumb they need to join the military to survive, why they are so freakin stupid they probably think Tahoe is in New Mexico.

JonR

oh puhleez.....

JR., I already took the dumbass ticket for the Tahoe statement. Now, look closer, I was singling out a few individuals who enlist because society has no other option for them save for the street.

The GED comment was used to make a point. Russ, don't take a knee-jerk reaction to my statement, rather try to understand what point I was making.......trying to make.

Many of you approach dialog with the foresight of a rhino.

Once again Sonny
"I said that but I meant this"

LOL

Hey, gator I completely agree with you. It is NOT society's obligation. Do realize that I am fully aware of the MANY flaming success stories associated with those who have chosen to be in the military and they are to be commended and respected.

EI, is it my fault that some people can read without comprehending, thus I have to result to spoon feeding?

Again, Russ and gator, my comments OBVIOUSLY do NOT apply to you or, for that matter, most of those in uniform, so chill out.

Did I just see Sonny cram a whole (rather large) group of people.....give them a label.... make derogatory statements about their mental abilities ... label their future as bleak...and cram them in a nutshell?

Wow...that's quite unusual for a liberal. It does, however point out the narrow, closed minded and intolerant thought process that Sonny and Rickmaven posess.

If I was one to apply a label to you....(based upon that single statement you made about the GED people)...which you seem to do with a number of people here I would say "Nazi".

But that single statement is not entirely descriptive of you...so the label wouldn't apply. As a matter of fact..it would be insulting and derogatory.

Or would it?

I can easily find a thousand GED earners who joined the military...went on to be successful...earned degrees...became everything from cops to teachers to business people.. for every one of your so called "street" people.

BTW...back to the thread...we have lost 900 or so soldiers in the Iraq action. How many soldiers do we lose to training accidents, stateside car accidents, suicide and crime every year during peace time?

It doesn't validate those deaths as being a trade off...but the numbers would narrow the gap of wartime loss vs normal attrition due to other causes. I dont' think any of our actions in Iraq have been in vain. I do believe we have shown a great deal of restraint and have kept our losses at a minimum.