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Last post 19 years ago by RICKAMAVEN. 16 replies replies.
WHERE O WHERE HAS MY LITTLE DOG GONE!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
feel free to highlight what you see fit. where is the air force inquiry?

Bush's National Guard file incomplete.

Documents to explain his gaps in service are missing

The Associated Press
Updated: 9:53 p.m. ET Sept. 5, 2004WASHINGTON -

Documents that should have been written to explain gaps in President Bush’s Texas Air National Guard service are missing from the military records released about his service in 1972 and 1973, according to regulations and outside experts.

For example, Air National Guard regulations at the time required commanders to write an investigative report for the Air Force when Bush missed his annual medical exam in 1972. The regulations also required commanders to confirm in writing that Bush received counseling after missing five months of drills.

No such records have been made public and the government told The Associated Press in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit that it has released all records it can find.

Outside experts suggest that National Guard commanders may not have produced documentation required by their own regulations.

“One of the downfalls back then in the National Guard was that not everyone wanted to be chief of staff of the Air Force. They just wanted to fly or maintain airplanes. So the record keeping could have been better,” said retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver Jr., a former head of the Air National Guard. He said the documents may not have been kept in the first place.

'Yet to be produced'

Challenging the government’s declaration that no more documents exist, the AP identified five categories of records that should have been generated after Bush skipped his pilot’s physical and missed five months of training.

“Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced,” AP lawyer David Schulz wrote the Justice Department Aug. 26.

White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there were no other documents to explain discrepancies in Bush’s files.

Military service during the Vietnam War has become an issue in the presidential election as both candidates debate the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Democrat John Kerry commanded a Navy Swift boat in Vietnam and was awarded five medals, including a Silver Star. But his heroism has been challenged in ads by some veterans who support Bush.

The president served stateside in the Air National Guard during Vietnam. Democrats have accused him of shirking his Guard service and getting favored treatment as the son of a prominent Washington figure.

The AP talked to experts unaffiliated with either campaign who have reviewed Bush’s files for missing documents. They said it was not unusual for guard commanders to ignore deficiencies by junior officers such as Bush. But they said missing a physical exam, which caused him to be grounded, was not common.

'Code of honor'

“It’s sort of like a code of honor that you didn’t go DNF (duty not including flying),” said retired Air Force Col. Leonard Walls, who flew 181 combat missions over Vietnam. “There was a lot of pride in keeping combat-ready status.”

Bush has said he fulfilled all his obligations. He was in the Texas Air National Guard from 1968 to 1973 and was trained to fly F-102 fighters.

“I’m proud of my service,” Bush told a rally last weekend in Lima, Ohio.

Records of Bush’s service have significant gaps, starting in 1972. Bush has said he left Texas that year to work on the unsuccessful Senate campaign in Alabama of family friend Winton Blount.

The five kinds of missing files are:

A report from the Texas Air National Guard to Bush’s local draft board certifying that Bush remained in good standing. The government has released copies of those DD Form 44 documents for Bush for 1971 and earlier years but not for 1972 or 1973. Records from Bush’s draft board in Houston do not show his draft status changed after he joined the guard in 1968. The AP obtained the draft board records Aug. 27 under the Freedom of Information Act.
Records of a required investigation into why Bush lost flight status. When Bush skipped his 1972 physical, regulations required his Texas commanders to “direct an investigation as to why the individual failed to accomplish the medical examination,” according to the Air Force manual at the time. An investigative report was supposed to be forwarded “with the command recommendation” to Air Force officials “for final determination.”

Bush’s spokesmen have said he skipped the exam because he knew he would be doing desk duty in Alabama. But Bush was required to take the physical by the end of July 1972, more than a month before he won final approval to train in Alabama.

A written acknowledgment from Bush that he had received the orders grounding him. His Texas commanders were ordered to have Bush sign such a document; but none has been released.
Reports of formal counseling sessions Bush was required to have after missing more than three training sessions. Bush missed at least five months’ worth of National Guard training in 1972. No documents have surfaced indicating Bush was counseled or had written authorization to skip that training or make it up later. Commanders did have broad discretion to allow guardsmen to make up for missed training sessions, said Weaver and Lawrence Korb, Pentagon personnel chief during the Reagan administration from 1981 to 1985.
“If you missed it, you could make it up,” said Korb, who now works for the Center for American Progress, which supports Kerry.

A signed statement from Bush acknowledging he could be called to active duty if he did not promptly transfer to another guard unit after leaving Texas. The statement was required as part of a Vietnam-era crackdown on no-show guardsmen. Bush was approved in September 1972 to train with the Alabama unit, more than four months after he left Texas.
Bush was approved to train in September, October and November 1972 with the Alabama Air National Guard’s 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group. The only record tying Bush to that unit is a dental exam at the group’s Montgomery base in January 1973. No records have been released giving Bush permission to train with the 187th after November 1972.

Walls, the Air Force combat veteran, was assigned to the 187th in 1972 and 1973 to train its pilots to fly the F-4 Phantom. Walls and more than a dozen other members of the 187th say they never saw Bush. One member of the unit, retired Lt. Col. John Calhoun, has said he remembers Bush showing up for training with the 187th.

Pay records show Bush was credited for training in January, April and May 1973; other files indicate that service was outside Texas.

Pressing for answers
A May 1973 yearly evaluation from Bush’s Texas unit gives the future president no ratings and stated Bush had not been seen at the Texas base since April 1972. In a directive from June 29, 1973, an Air Force personnel official pressed Bush’s unit for information about his Alabama service.

“This officer should have been reassigned in May 1972,” wrote Master Sgt. Daniel P. Harkness, “since he no longer is training in his AFSC (Air Force Service Category, or job title) or with his unit of assignment.”

Then-Maj. Rufus G. Martin replied Nov. 12, 1973: “Not rated for the period 1 May 72 through 30 Apr 73. Report for this period not available for administrative reasons.”

By then, Texas Air National Guard officials had approved Bush’s request to leave the guard to attend Harvard Business School; his last days of duty were in July 1973.

usahog Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick this should clear a few things up for you...

Hog

http://liddyshow.us/liddyfile44.php

Bush and I Were Lieutenants
Posted August, 2004

George Bush and I were lieutenants and pilots in the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron (FIS), Texas Air National Guard (ANG) from 1970 to 1971. We had the same flight and squadron commanders (Maj. William Harris and Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, both now deceased). While we were not part of the same social circle outside the base, we were in the same fraternity of fighter pilots, and proudly wore the same squadron patch.

It is quite frustrating to hear the daily cacophony from the left and Sen. John Kerry, Massachusetts Democrat, et al., about Lt. Bush escaping his military responsibilities by hiding in the Texas ANG. In the Air Guard during the Vietnam War, you were always subject to call-up, as many Air National Guardsmen are finding out today. If the 111th FIS and Lt. Bush did not go to Vietnam, blame President Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara, not lowly Lt. Bush. They deliberately avoided use of the Guard and Reserves for domestic political calculations, knowing that a draftee only stirred up the concerns of one family, while a call-up got a whole community's attention.

The mission of the 147th Fighter Group and its subordinate 111th FIS, Texas ANG, and the airplane it possessed, the F-102, was air defense. It was focused on defending the continental United States from Soviet nuclear bombers. The F-102 could not drop bombs and would have been useless in Vietnam. A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert) was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding down and not accepting more volunteers.

If you check the 111th FIS records of 1970-72 and any other ANG squadron, you will find other pilots excused for career obligations and conflicts. The Bush excusal in 1972 was further facilitated by a change in the unit's mission, from an operational fighter squadron to a training squadron with a new airplane, the F-101, which required that more pilots be available for full-time instructor duty rather than part-time traditional reservists with outside employment.

The winding down of the Vietnam War in 1971 provided a flood of exiting active-duty pilots for these instructor jobs, making part-timers like Lt. Bush and me somewhat superfluous. There was a huge glut of pilots in the Air Force in 1972, and with no cockpits available to put them in, many were shoved into nonflying desk jobs. Any pilot could have left the Air Force or the Air Guard with ease after 1972 before his commitment was up because there just wasn't room for all of them anymore.

Sadly, few of today's partisan pundits know anything about the environment of service in the Reserves in the 1970s. The image of a reservist at that time is of one who joined, went off for six months' basic training, then came back and drilled weekly or monthly at home, with two weeks of "summer camp." With the knowledge that Mr. Johnson and Mr. McNamara were not going to call out the Reserves, it did become a place of refuge for many wanting to avoid Vietnam.

There was one big exception to this abusive use of the Guard to avoid the draft, and that was for those who wanted to fly, as pilots or crew members. Because of the training required, signing up for this duty meant up to 2½ years of active duty for training alone, plus a high probability of mobilization. A fighter-pilot candidate selected by the Guard (such as Lt. Bush and me) would be spending the next two years on active duty going through basic training (six weeks), flight training (one year), survival training (two weeks) and combat crew training for his aircraft (six to nine months), followed by local checkout (up to three more months) before he was even deemed combat-ready. Because the draft was just two years, you sure weren't getting out of duty being an Air Guard pilot. If the unit to which you were going back was an F-100, you were mobilized for Vietnam. Avoiding service? Yeah, tell that to those guys.

The Bush critics do not comprehend the dangers of fighter aviation at any time or place, in Vietnam or at home, when they say other such pilots were risking their lives or even dying while Lt. Bush was in Texas. Our Texas ANG unit lost several planes right there in Houston during Lt. Bush's tenure, with fatalities. Just strapping on one of those obsolescing F-102s was risking one's life.

Critics such as Mr. Kerry (who served in Vietnam, you know), Terry McAuliffe and Michael Moore (neither of whom served anywhere) say Lt. Bush abandoned his assignment as a jet fighter pilot without explanation or authorization and was AWOL from the Alabama Air Guard.

Well, as for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue. Lt. Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a Senate campaign.

Excusals for employment were common then and are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions, and most commanders (as I later was) are flexible in letting their charges take care of career affairs until they return or transfer to another unit near their new employment. Sometimes they will transfer temporarily to another unit to keep them on the active list until they can return home. The receiving unit often has little use for a transitory member, especially in a high-skills category like a pilot, because those slots usually are filled and, if not filled, would require extensive conversion training of up to six months, an unlikely option for a temporary hire.

As a commander, I would put such "visitors" in some minor administrative post until they went back home. There even were a few instances when I was unaware that they were on my roster because the paperwork often lagged. Today, I can't even recall their names. If a Lt. Bush came into my unit to "pull drills" for a couple of months, I wouldn't be too involved with him because I would have a lot more important things on my table keeping the unit combat ready.

Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:

First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's weekend drill assembly — the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves, it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.

If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical. Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not confront a drug user.

Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm "being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in The Washington Post in 2000.

Finally, the Kerrys, Moores and McAuliffes are casting a terrible slander on those who served in the Guard, then and now. My Guard career parallels Lt. Bush's, except that I stayed on for 33 years. As a guardsman, I even got to serve in two campaigns. In the Cold War, the air defense of the United States was borne primarily by the Air National Guard, by such people as Lt. Bush and me and a lot of others. Six of those with whom I served in those years never made their 30th birthdays because they died in crashes flying air-defense missions.

While most of America was sleeping and Mr. Kerry was playing antiwar games with Hanoi Jane Fonda, we were answering 3 a.m. scrambles for who knows what inbound threat over the Canadian subarctic, the cold North Atlantic and the shark-filled Gulf of Mexico. We were the pathfinders in showing that the Guard and Reserves could become reliable members of the first team in the total force, so proudly evidenced today in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It didn't happen by accident. It happened because back at the nadir of Guard fortunes in the early '70s, a lot of volunteer guardsman showed they were ready and able to accept the responsibilities of soldier and citizen — then and now. Lt. Bush was a kid whose congressman father encouraged him to serve in the Air National Guard. We served proudly in the Guard. Would that Mr. Kerry encourage his children and the children of his colleague senators and congressmen to serve now in the Guard.

In the fighter-pilot world, we have a phrase we use when things are starting to get out of hand and it's time to stop and reset before disaster strikes. We say, "Knock it off." So, Mr. Kerry and your friends who want to slander the Guard: Knock it off.


COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (retired)
U.S. Air Force/Air National Guard
Herndon, Va.5
usahog Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick, I myself as well as You yourself know how Records can mysteriously be misplaced or pulled anc changed around in the Military...

just in the last couple months I have had to file FOIA letters to retrieve information on my own files...

during the course of the last 26 months.. Much of my paperwork had been pulled from my medical files and re-written or just trashed... EVERYONE involved around my medical situation has either Retired out, been promoted up, given better jobs and or deployed...

Hell I am even sitting on some documentation where one Commander who was not commander at the time 1999-2000 went back into my personell paperwork and forged some documents taking away some awards/ribbons I had been awarded prior to 1999... he is now the Vice Commander of my old unit.. and he doesn't have one day of "War College" under his belt.. which is a requirement to hold this position...

You know as well as I do.. the Paperwork chase in the Military is virtually a Nightmare..and honestly I can attest to the fact allot of paperwork never did get done in the Air National Guard and those dates were from 1985-2004... it basically boiled down to if you didn't track it down and keep on top of it yourself you lost out... there were a few people who learning their job gave a ****... and allot of those people have moved on to somewhere else... I for one kept every peice of paper ever given me from the military...but I also told newer less ranking individuals to do the same.. after a weekend of training though I could go around the shop picking up after these folks and find allot of things they should have taken home with them and filed in their own personel folders or lock boxes...

donutboy2000 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Newsweek pool:

Bush 52%
Kerry 41%
CWFoster Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Hey Rick! Instead of beating this same old tired drum, why don't you do some research and find out why Kerry won't authorize release of HIS military records? Why no one in the press is clamoring to know what's to be done about his early rotation from a combat zone on the basis of three Purple Hearts, one of which was awarded for what has been admitted to be a self-inflicted wound, because by his own journal entry dated two weeks later, he wrote "We haven't been shot at yet". Doesn't this constitute cowardice and desertin in the face of the enemy? Isn't that worse than simple AWOL in a stateside unit? Oh, Kerry's YOUR boy, and you don't want to look at those facts! Accept it Rick Bush at worst is the lesser of two evils! How about we stop worrying about all this thirty year old crap and look at their records. granted Bush only has two terms as governor of Texas under his belt, but he got re-elected there, and the people of Texas haven't re-elected a governor in thirty years! Kerry on the other hand has a 70+% absentee rate from his Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee post (including meetings in 2001 dealing with terrorism) He hasn't released the attendance of the classified briefings. He claims to be the best choice for National security, but he's voted against every major weapons system upgrade in the past twenty years, and he voted against an appropriations bill to equip our troops with badly needed body armor. What nation is he proposing to be the best at providing security for? Surely not ours!
Charlie Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
The polls are going to widen, now that folks have seen how inept Kerry really is when it comes to running a campaign, how the hell do they expect that he can run the government? Ask France permission before he moves on anything and then go to the UN!!!LMAO.

Rick, thanks for the interesting cut and paste!

Charlie
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
CWFoster

i believe kerry will be better then any chicken, horse, or cactus i would vote for. remember ABB.
that means, anybody or anything but bush.

i also think i know why bush spends so much time at the "ranch."
usahog Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick, I answered my Sister the same way as I will answer your ABB thoughts...

10 out of 10 Terrorists Perfer Anybody But Bush....there's your ABB...

How soon we all forget...


Hog
eleltea Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Sorry, I don't have time to read this thread.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

when conducting survey of terrorists, does one call them on the phone or simply mail them a survey document to complete and return with 10 cents and a box top from any sugar free cereal.

do they complete the survey in the presence of a survey monitor, or is it an open book survey.

ten out of ten? i heard it was 4 out of 5 1/2. and if a terrorist and a half can destroy a house and a half in a day and a half, how many house or houses can one terrorist destroy in one day and a half.

silly isn't it.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
eleltea

i take exception to your post, except for an exceptable excuse, requiring a certified, by a notary sojac, note from your doctor.
drjothen Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-17-2003
Posts: 319
Does it really, really matter? Is this where we should talk about Clinton or new found political activist Bruce Springsteen? Hmmmm, I wonder what has happened to their military records? Oh that's right, they did no service of any kind. Off with their heads I say!!

DRJ
MACS Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,796
This is political. I have no comment. Off to the "anything but politics" thread I go.
eleltea Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Rick, my doctor said he doesnt have time to read it either, and the Notary Sojac is out fighting a fire.
JonR Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo MACS(SW):

Your statement:

"This is political. I have no comment. Off to the "anything but politics" thread I go."

Yo MACS:

By stating: "This is political. I have no comment.", you are making a comment.

2 entries found for comment.
To select an entry, click on it.
comment[1,noun]comment[2,verb]

Main Entry: 1com·ment
Pronunciation: 'kä-"ment
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin commentum, from Latin, invention, from neuter of commentus, past participle of comminisci to invent, from com- + -minisci (akin to ment-, mens mind) -- more at MIND
1 : COMMENTARY
2 : a note explaining, illustrating, or criticizing the meaning of a writing
3 a : an observation or remark expressing an opinion or attitude b : a judgment expressed indirectly


JonR

donutboy2000 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Charlie

why do you and others call it cut and paste? i use copy and paste.
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