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Last post 19 years ago by usahog. 14 replies replies.
Kerry Accused of Demeaning US Allies
usahog Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Kerry Accused of Demeaning US Allies

(CNSNews.com) - When Sen. John F. Kerry says he would involve America's allies in the war on Iraq, he's not talking about the allies that are currently helping the U.S. "When they talk about a coalition -- that's the phoniest thing I ever heard," Kerry said on Monday. "You've got about 500 troops here, 500 troops there, and it's American troops that are 90 percent of the combat casualties, and it's American taxpayers that are paying 90 percent of the cost of the war," Kerry said. Vice President ****** Cheney said Britain, Australia, and the other nations helping America "deserve our respect, not our insults." Cheney echoed General Tommy Franks, who once said that "Every contribution from every nation is important." Moreover, Cheney added, "Demeaning our allies is an interesting approach for someone seeking the office of the presidency. When it comes to diplomacy, it looks like John Kerry should stick to windsurfing," Cheney said.

Hog
CWFoster Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Isn't HE the guy who's bound and determined to regain the respect of our allies?
Charlie Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
LMAO

Charlie
Cavallo Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
cns news... the "right" news, it says. just checked it out and saw a bunch of pro-right wing blurbs. one about bush's records was just starkly contradicted. i've not heard a word about this statement in any mainstream news -- got any non-conservative sources for the blurb?
EI Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-29-2002
Posts: 5,069
"got any non-conservative sources for the blurb?"

Probably not Cav because the Liberal Leaning Media will not report it. So I guess its not a true statement made by Kerry, Huh?
penzt8 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
I'm just curious. The first gulf war was a coalition of our european allies. Just what percent of the fighting did they contribute then? I know a lot of them provided air forces. How much of the ground force was provided by France, germany, etc?
grond Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-07-2003
Posts: 738
Cavallo,

Here's the newsline from Reuters

Kerry on Iraq: Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time (Reuters)

Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry on Monday called the invasion of Iraq "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time" and said his goal was to withdraw U.S. troops in his first White House term. Under pressure from some Democrats to change the subject from national security -- regarded by many as President Bush's strongest issue -- Kerry tried to focus exclusively on the economy and other domestic topics at a neighborhood meeting but supporters raised Iraq.

The Massachusetts senator, who has said he would have voted to give Bush the authority to use force if necessary against Iraq even if he had known at the time that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, has struggled to draw clear contrasts with the president. "I would not have done just one thing differently than the president on Iraq, I would have done everything differently than the president on Iraq," Kerry said. He denied that he was "Monday morning quarterbacking."

"I said this from the beginning of the debate to the walk up to the war. I said, Mr. President don't rush to war, take the time to build a legitimate coalition and have a plan to win the peace." Kerry said Bush had failed on all three counts. He called the president's talk about a coalition fighting alongside about 125,000 U.S. troops "the phoniest thing I've ever heard." "You've about 500 troops here, 500 troops there and it's American troops that are 90 percent of the combat casualties and it's American taxpayers that are paying 90 percent of the cost of the war," he said. "It's the wrong war, in the wrong place at the wrong time."

Is Reuters a part of the evil Conservative machine or will you accept this source?

Cheers,

grond

Cavallo Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
thanks, grond! appreciate it. reuters is just peachy -- i just wanted to see it in the full context. :)

i think his wording was clumsy, considerably so. i do agree with the sentiment, though, that we should be able to call on our allies to pitch in a lot more. yes, every little bit helps, but still it's the USA and its citizens and troops who are taking the huge hit on this. we shouldn't have to go around, hat in hand, asking for help.

yes, i fully appreciate what troops from other countries are giving -- and god bless 'em for it bigtime. but let's open those wallets up a bit, too, allies. the USA is ALWAYS there for EVERYONE. when we're taking a hit, well, time to scratch our back for a change. little more help wouldn't be bad at all.
Cavallo Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
EI: looks like the liberal lefty media DID report it -- they just reported the WHOLE story, not just a blurb. :) i like to see things in context, not skewed -- to the right OR the left.

ps grond -- conservative media isn't evil, just biased (just like liberal media is). i do not think for a second that "the media" in general is either liberal or conservative, though. the general media (reuters, associated press et al) have actually done an outstanding job of supporting bush as a decisive president -- see the other thread on that (rick's flip-flop thread i think?).
usahog Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/gulf.war/facts/gulfwar/
Gulf War Facts
The Coalition
The Allied coalition consisted of 34 countries, including Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Honduras, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, The Netherlands, Niger, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, Spain, Syria, Turkey, The United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The U.S. had more than 500,000 troops in the Persian Gulf War, while the non-U.S. coalition forces equaled roughly 160,000, or 24 percent, of all forces. Here are some details about the forces in the Gulf:

U.S. casualties: 148 battle deaths, 145 nonbattle deaths

Army: 98 battle; 105 nonbattle
Navy: 6 battle; 8 nonbattle
Marines: 24 battle; 26 nonbattle
Air Force: 20 battle; 6 nonbattle
Women killed: 15

U.S. wounded in action: 467

British casualties: 24, nine by U.S. fire

British wounded in action: 10

French casualties: 2

French wounded in action: 25 (estimated)

Allied Arab casualties: 39

Allied combat air sorties flown: More than 116,000

Coalition aircraft losses: 75 (63 U.S., 12 Allied)

Fixed wing: 37 combat, 15 noncombat (U.S. losses -- 28 combat, 12 noncombat; no U.S. losses in air-to-air engagements)
Helicopters: 5 combat, 18 noncombat (all U.S.)
Iraq

In June 1991, the U.S. estimated that more than 100,000 Iraqi soldiers died, 300,000 were wounded, 150,000 deserted and 60,000 were taken prisoner. Many human rights groups claimed a much higher number of Iraqis were killed in action. According to Baghdad, civilian casualties numbered more than 35,000. However, since the war, some scholars have concluded that the number of Iraqi soldiers who were killed was significantly less than initially reported.

Estimated Iraqi Losses: (Reported by U.S. Central Command, March 7, 1991)

36 fixed-wing aircraft in air-to-air engagements
6 helicopters in air-to-air engagements
68 fixed- and 13 rotary-wing aircraft destroyed on the ground
137 Iraqi aircraft flown to Iran
3,700 of 4,280 battle tanks
2,400 of 2,870 assorted other armored vehicles
2,600 of 3,110 assorted artillery pieces
19 naval ships sunk, 6 damaged
42 divisions made combat-ineffective

Enemy prisoners of war captured: U.S. forces released 71,204 to Saudi control.
The Cost

The U.S. Department of Defense has estimated the cost of the Gulf War at $61 billion; however, other sources say that number could be as high as $71 billion. The operation was financed by more than $53 billion pledged by countries around the world, most of which came from Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States ($36 billion) and Germany and Japan ($16 billion). Some of the money pledged by countries such as Saudi Arabia was delivered in the form of in-kind services to troops, such as transportation and food.

Coalition crumbling?
The Gulf War coalition of nations disagrees on future policy toward Iraq

(CNN) -- The coalition that rallied the United Nations and fought the Gulf War is definitely showing signs of cracking. The most high-profile coalition member to defect is France, which has turned highly critical of the economic sanctions placed on Iraq.

France has openly opposed the continuation of sanctions and recently challenged the embargo by allowing flights from France to land at Baghdad's newly reopened Saddam International Airport without seeking authorization from the U.N. sanctions committee. France, along with Russia, which has allowed similar flights, says nations wishing to send humanitarian supplies to Iraq should only have to notify the committee instead of receiving its approval.

After the Russian and French flights, several Arab nations followed suit. In November, a Baghdad trade fair drew 12 foreign trade ministers and some 18,000 business people representing 45 countries. Last August, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez became the first head of state to visit Iraq since the war and meet Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

China also has voiced opposition to the continuation of the sanctions. Neither China nor Russia was a member of the Gulf War coalition that fought the war but both did not oppose the U.N. resolutions concerning the conflict.

Arab nations, except for Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, tend to favor either easing or ending the sanctions on Baghdad. Most Arab nations, except for Jordan, either backed the Gulf War or did not oppose it. In October, Iraqi officials traveled to Egypt and attended their first Arab League meeting in a decade.

In 1999, the League condemned the December 1998 U.S. and British air strikes on Iraq that were prompted by Baghdad's reported failure to cooperate with U.N. weapons inspectors and the League backed the lifting of the sanctions. But League members also called on Iraq to implement U.N. resolutions on weapons inspections and refrain from making any "provocative actions" toward its neighbors.

The United States and Great Britain continue to press for the sanctions to remain in place until Iraq is certified as complying with U.N. resolutions that say the sanctions cannot be lifted until U.N. inspectors report Iraq has surrendered all weapons of mass destruction. Iraq says it has already done so and insists the sanctions be lifted.

U.N. weapons inspections ended abruptly in December 1998, just before the United States and Britain launched air strikes to punish Baghdad for failing to cooperate with U.N. weapons searches. Attempts to resume inspections have repeatedly stalled. Talks between U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and Iraq to discuss the sanctions and a new weapons inspections team were scheduled to begin in January 2001 but were postponed until February at the earliest.


The Coalition was falling apart Long Before GWB took Office...

Hog

usahog Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/
Forces: U.S. & Coalition/Casualties
here have been 1,136 coalition deaths, 1,005 Americans, 65 Britons, six Bulgarians, one Dane, two Dutch, one Estonian, one Hungarian, 19 Italians, one Latvian, 10 Poles, one Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and eight Ukrainians, in the war in Iraq as of September 8, 2004 (Graphical breakdown of casualties). The list below is the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen, sailors and Coast Guardsmen whose families have been notified of their deaths by each country's government. At least 6,916 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon. The Pentagon does not report the number of non-hostile wounded. This list is updated regularly.


Hog
usahog Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://www.desert-storm.com/War/nations.html

Military Presence
Allied Forces


AFGHANISTAN - 300 troops

AUSTRALIA - See Australian Info Sheet

BAHRAIN - 400 personnel, 36 aircraft

BANGLADESH - 6,000 troops

BELGIUM - 1 frigate, 2 minesweepers, 2 landing
ships, 6 C-130 planes

BRITAIN - 43,000 troops, 6 destroyers, 4 frigates, 3 minesweepers, 168 tanks, 300 armored vehicles, 70 jets

CANADA - 2 destroyers, 12 C-130 planes, 24 CF-18 bombers, 4500 troops, Field Hospital (1 Canadian Field Hospital)

CZECHOSLVAKIA - 200 chemical warfare specialists

EGYPT - 40,000 troops (5,000 special forces
paratroopers)

FRANCE - 18,000 troops, 60 combat aircraft, 120
helicopters, 40 tanks, 1 missle cruiser, 3
destroyers, 4 frigates

GERMANY - Jagdbombergeschwader 43 consisting of 18
Alpha-Jets and 212 soldiers stationed in
Erhac/Turkey during the gulf war.

5 Minesweeper, 2 Supply Vessels, 500 sailors
altogether.

HONDURAS - 150 troops

HUNGARY - 1 medical unit

ITALY - 3 frigates, 4 minesweepers, 10 Tornado
Aircraft

KUWAIT - 11,000 troops, 2 missle boats, 1 barge, A-4 Skyhawks (exact # unknown)
Leaders:
Emir of Kuwait

NEW ZEALAND - 50 medical soldiers and 2 C-130's

NIGER - 500 troops

OMAN - 25,500 troops, 63 airplanes, 4 Exocet-armed
ships

POLAND - 1 Hospital Ship

QATAR - 1 squadron of Mirage F-1E fighters

ROMANIA - 180 chemical warfare experts

SAUDI ARABIA - 118,000 troops, 550 tanks, 180
airplanes

Leaders:
King Fahad Leader of Saudi Arabia

SOUTH KOREA - 5 C-130 transport planes, 1 medical
unit

SYRIA - 17,000 troops, 300 T-62 tanks

UNITED ARAB EMRIATES - 40,000 troops, 80 planes,
200 tanks

UNITED STATES - 540,000 troops, 6 aircraft carriers,
submarines, 4,000 tanks, 1,700
helicopters, 1,800 airplanes
Leaders:

George Bush President of the United States
Dan Quayle Vice President of the United States
Colin Powell Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff.
Norman Schwarzkopf CENTCOMM Commander
Jim Baker Secretary of State
John Sununu President's Chief of Staff
****** Cheney Secretary of Defense
Brent Scowcroft President's National Security Advisor
Bob Dole Republican Leader of the Senate
George Mitchell Democratic Leader of the Senate
Sam Nunn Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman
Les Aspin House Armed Services Committee Chairman


Info compiled from various sources


Hope this helps a bit Penzt...

Hog
usahog Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
^
penzt8 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
Thanks hog,

Just goes to show ya, the US has been the primary force provider with or without the european allies. Then you have to analyze the number of combat missions flown, the targets assigned, and the roles of the ground forces.
usahog Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
I got those Statistics somewheres also... let me dig them up... now this is just for GW I... I couldn't locate the info on GW II as yet...

I Know one thing... it pays to have your FOF working while flying these missions!!!! them Patriot Anti Missile Battaries play hell on Foe vehicles....

Hog
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