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Last post 19 years ago by usahog. 13 replies replies.
Navy Says Kerry's Service Awards OK'd
AVB Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
WASHINGTON - The Navy's chief investigator concluded Friday that procedures were followed properly in the approval of Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites)'s Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals, according to an internal Navy memo.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040917/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_navy_awards

For my friends on the Republican side, what say you now?
echo4alpha Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2003
Posts: 4,349
Aren't they the same guys that pay hundreds of $$$ for a hammer and put $1500 spillproof coffee pots on VC20s?
Just curious...
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
"I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country. We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation."

John Kerry, testifying before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, April 22, 1971


"There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals."

John Kerry, on NBC's "Meet the Press" April 18, 1971



Although not a Republican, I'll chime in and say that I believe the above two quotes are the bigger issue. The awards and any possible falsification of them pale in comparison. John Kerry has since described those statements as being " a little bit excessive" and "over the top". John Kerry wants/needs the military and veteran vote and these quotes won't go away.

usahog Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
How did you come up with a different scoop on the issue AVB??? couldn't be a bias site now could it???

I mean after all Newsmax and Fox reporting the Navy held short a full probe as was asked???

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/17/220915.shtml
Friday, Sept. 17, 2004 10:07 p.m. EDT

Navy Halts Kerry Medal Probe

The Navy's chief investigator has halted a formal investigation into questions about Sen. John Kerry's Vietnam combat decorations without answering key questions about the circumstances of those awards.

"Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed," Navy inspector general Vice Adm. R.A. Route said in a memo to Navy Secretary Gordon England.

"In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards."

But according to Judicial Watch, the legal watchdog group that requested the Kerry medals probe in August, Route's decision to pull the plug amounts to "a whitewash."

Among the concerns not addressed by Route's preliminary probe:

# The authenticity of the signature of former Navy Secretary John Lehman as it appears on Kerry's Silver Star citation. Lehman says he never signed the document and questioned its language.

# The "Silver Star with Combat V" notation appearing on Kerry DD214 form. A Navy official called the "Combat V" award "incorrect" last month before Route began his probe, saying that such an award has never been issued in Navy history.

# A 1971 trip by Kerry to Paris where Kerry met with senior North Vietnamese representatives to discuss a peace deal without U.S. approval. Kerry was a member of the Navy Reserve at the time.

# An account by a Navy doctor who treated Kerry for his first Purple Heart wound, who said it was so minor that he gave Kerry a Band-Aid and sent him on his way.

"The Navy IG obviously is afraid of the political ramifications of a thorough investigation into a presidential candidate’s service record," Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said, adding that he may appeal the decision.

and you call this concluded or Ok'd?? LMAO!!!

I Smell Shuffle...

Hog
AVB Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
Firstly, I don't call anything, I just reported the Yahoo link.
Secondly, you're shuffle idea would have to be a republican one. Think about it. A Vice Admiral (who has to be republican becuse you've told us all military are) who works for a republican president purposely glossing over rumor and innuendo? Hard to point the finger at the Democrates for this one.
usahog Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
"who has to be republican becuse you've told us all military are"

Please point out where I said this?

and you really tried your best to put a spin on this one ;0) not going to work... I view the person(s) who were looking up this info spin doctors like yourself...

and one more thing... A Vice Admaril wouldn't be the one getting ink on his fingers pulling up this "Partial" information he would be requesting it from the lower ranks... did you forget the rank and file of the military system?

Hog
AVB Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
I'm glad you think I'm high enough in anyone's system to be a "spin doctor". Maybe someday.

Have you ever heard of following orders? I have my doubts but when the man with the stars says "do this", most of us go ahead and do it. You may have performed differently in your career.
usahog Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LMAO @ AVB... keep chipping away best you can ;0)

You still did not answer the questions before you, and now want to direct your own thread away from the issue??

LMAO Typical!!!!

One Bourbon,One Scotch.... and One Beer!!!

Hog
CWFoster Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I still say,I'd like the Democrats to STOP the brouhaha over thiry-year old military records, and run on the performance of Bush as President, and Governor of Texas versus Kerrys past twenty years in the Senate!! Bush would be a sure bet!
johnfs Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-01-2003
Posts: 2,992
you guys are boooorrrrriiiiiinnnnngggggggggg!
AVB Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
You are asking me for things where I either don't have the knowledge nor resources to find out. It's the same thing as if I asked you where Bush was for his November 1972 drill. Was he there with his unit or with a different one? If he wasn't when and with whom did he make it up?

My previous reply answered the your point of the Admiral pulling records and that I'm glad you think I'm a spin doctor. I answer what I can unlike some.
usahog Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
"For my friends on the Republican side, what say you now?"
"Firstly, I don't call anything, I just reported the Yahoo link."

I believe the above contradicts what you wrote here??
asking what we have to say is basically what?

"who has to be republican becuse you've told us all military are"

Again Please point out where I said this? This would be called answering the question...

"My previous reply answered the your point of the Admiral pulling records and that I'm glad you think I'm a spin doctor. I answer what I can unlike some."

This one?
"Have you ever heard of following orders? I have my doubts but when the man with the stars says "do this", most of us go ahead and do it. You may have performed differently in your career."

I don't call that an answer, I call that a shot at myself and my past career... a slum shot at that ;0)

Personally I think you got a little pissy when your Thread was answered the way it should have been.. with the FACTS... Whoever it was that pulled Kerry's records and whoever it was that said this was all they were going to review... were WRONG.... Wrong to the American Public... Have you ever seen WRONG DOING in the Military Before AVB???

Hog
usahog Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Navy Rejects Probe of Kerry's War Medals
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&u=/nm/20040917/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_navy_dc_3&printer=1

We're a little disappointed, and we will look at other avenues to try to get the truth out here," said Judicial Watch spokesman Dave Warner.

"John Kerry has not released all of his military records. And we think he should."

They need to do like others have done with Bush.. Sue for FOIA... and let a Judge force them to be released.... what does Kerry have to hide??

and the Combat "V" is still improperly displayed on his website...

Hog
usahog Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
New Navy After-Action Report Backs Swiftvets
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/9/19/235421.shtml
Sunday, Sept. 19, 2004 11:49 p.m. EDT

New Navy After-Action Report Backs Swiftvets

A never-before-published after-action report obtained from Navy archives by "Unfit for Command" co-author Jerome Corsi confirms key contradictions cited by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth about John Kerry's Vietnam battle claims.

The documents contain battle damage reports from a March 1969 incident that show Kerry's PCF-94 Swift Boat sustained no bullet-hole damage after being exposed to what the report claims was "heavy A/W and S/A from both banks" of the Bay Hap River that lasted "for about 5000 meters."

The episode is the most famous of Kerry's combat exploits, the one where he claims to have rescued Special Forces officer James Rassmann while under heavy fire after PCF-94 was hit by a mine.

The explosion tossed Rassman overboard.

But despite the supposed barrage of gunfire, the after-action report lists damage to PCF-94 as follows:

"Two stbd and one port main cabin windows blown out. VRC-46 radio and all remote units pilot house inop. AC wiring shorted out. Onan generator inop. Steerage control after helm inop. Stbd bilge pump broken. Screws curled and chipped. Radar gear box frozen. Main engines experienced RPM drop."

Nowhere is any bullet-hole damage noted.

In an interview with NewsMax on Friday, Corsi said that the damage noted in the Navy report was consistent with the description of the event given in "Unifit for Command," where Kerry boatmates say there was no enemy fire after the mine explosion under another boat, PCF-3.

"PCF-94 would have been riddled with holes if it were being shot at for 5000 meters," he said.

The Navy documents also detail the wounds suffered by Kerry's crew during the Rassmann episode, including back injuries, abrasions and shrapnel wounds - some of which were sustained in the mine explosion.

The list makes no mention of any bullet wounds to any crewmember.

Kerry's injuries are chronicled in the report as "shrapnel wound left buttock and contusion abrasions [minor]." The Swiftvets have claimed taht Kerry's shrapnel wound was sustained not during the March 13 mine explosion but when Kerry tossed a hand grenade into a rice storage bin at close range earlier in the day.

Corsi echoed claims of the Swiftvets, who say that Kerry himself likely authored several of the key after-action reports, suggesting that the contradictions stem from the fact that he embellished parts of the story without making sure they were consistent with other parts of his report.

The documents were obtained by the best-selling author from Building 57 at The Naval Yard in Washington, D.C., where the Naval Historical Archives are available to the public.

Kerry's lies are imploding.... Last thing this Country Needs is Another Clinton...

Hog
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