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some say very very old, millions and millions of years.

some people say it is 10,000 years old.

what do you say?

Millions of years ... anyone who imagines it to be no more than 10,000 years old is so uniformed that it is mind-boggling ...

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Author: 00camper Date: 12/09/2004 10:56 AM
I guess I'm among the severely misinformed.
I believe that Earth is far younger than what
the scientific establishment says is fact.
That said, I also believe that Earth is older
than what the religious fundamentalists believe
to be true.
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So, you believe the earth to be more than 10,000 years old then ... meaning you're not among those I categorized as seriously uniformed ... let me ask you, do religious fundamentalists really believe that???

Do we all send a fiver to the EPA on earth day?

Closest estimates are 4 to 4.5 billion years. X

An interesting thing was discovered when man first landed on the moon. Baised on all scientific data saying the earth and moon were billions of years old the amount of dust they were to land in was projected to be several feet deep. However when they landed it was only several inches. When this data was recalculated the earth was said to be only around 10,000 years old, so of course according to scientist this was no longer a reliable means of dating the age of the blue planet.

Similiar scientific theory could be debunked and should be however we still teach the finding of the missing links skull years after the finder admitted to frabricating the skull from a man and an orangatang. This is still in the text books and has been since the 1950's and was disclosed as a hoax in the 60's.(spelling? sorry)

The universe is estimated to be about 15 billion years old, the earth about 5 billion, and modern humans about 200,000 years old; if you take archaic H. sapiens as a relative point. Cro magnon, modern H. sapiens, didn't appear till about 60,000 years ago. Since we hominids are such a new species, the fossil remains are fairly numerous; lots of intermediate phenotypes found, and hardly missing since they're stacked away in drawers and lockers in universities and museums around the world.

Jeepers! Next thing they'll be attributing infections to succubi and fevers to 'bilious humors.' Happy new years and welcome to 2005.

Rick’s creationism fireball fizzles out…

I'm with MACS! Is this the most important issue we have on our plates today? GREAT! LOL

a day is as a thousand years a thousand years is as a day...

If the earth's 5 billion years old, and a thousand years were a day, then the earth's 13,698 years old. Either way the good Archbishop Ussher is off his mark.

hear = Here... Fuggit

Hog

Always love this question... really shows the bias, blindness and plain non-thinking of the (insert your belief here).
There are many sources of evidence, scientific evidence and research on origins. Some are so whacko that you cannot help but laugh, due to faulty logic. Some back up their POV with assumptions they claim as fact, etc. Some back up thier claims with facts and evidence - you get to pick through the minefield.

For the thinking person out there, I have three questions:
(1) were you there at the beginning?
all we can do is make assumptions and theories based upon evidence we see. If the evidence we can see, or use true science to re-create/test our hypotheses, shows something different than our assumption, do we ignore the results because it doesn't fit our assumption, doctor the results to match our assumption, or re-evaluate our position? Our personal bias is always in play.

2) All Origins stories rely on faith. From the most bizzare, to the one that you like. You cannot prove macro-evolution any more than you can a six-day, young earth position, or the (e.g.) Navajo creation story, Japanese creation story, etc. Hopefully, you use reason, intellect, and evidence along with your faith. It takes incredible faith to believe that the evolutionary model brought you "from the goo thru the zoo to you".It also takes faith to believe God did it in 6 days.

3) Why do you believe what you believe? Because you were told "that's the way it is", did you reason thru both sides of the coin, read, study the pro and con books, etc., and choose? Or, like most, you just don't care? Do you believe it because the "other" side implies a different outcome, or even may require you to alter your life/lifestyle?

The Law of non-contradiction applies here, too. everybody's belief can be wrong, but only one belief is correct. Age of the earth/Origins is a fixed point. special creation/macro-evolution are mutually exclusive. Each belief system ultimately affects how you see yourself, how you live, and how you think you'll spend eternity - sometimes subtle, sometimes overt. as Pascal (if i remember correctly) implied in his letters, 'you'd better be right'.

rcpilotva

i like your dissertation. very nicely done.

Not sure, But I know the one who Does.

sorry for the jack

thx for the kind comments, ladies and gents, er BOTL/SOTL if i may use the term.
Steve's comments about "what's a day?" is a reasonable question, but the comment that creation/evolution are not mutually exclusive is not valid, when you take each belief system to it's logical end. the time argument (sp?) is just one example of attempted reconciliation of the two belief systems.
time as we measure it here on planet earth is effectivly as good as we can measure the passage of something we only rudimentally understand. we feel time pass in our bodies, see it in the mirror on our mugs, watch our kids turn into us (egad!),so we know it's there - can't collect it in a bottle (sorry jim croce), store it up,etc. time is a tool we use as measurement. imho, whether time is measured differently elsewhere in the universe is kinda irrelevent?
if you're attmpting to read the judeo-christian "day" as some other time segment than a 24 hr time cycle, it's pretty tough to come up with a different meaning than what it literally says in the historical records we have. the concept of "day" meaning something other than a 24+/- hr period of time is a relatively new one from those folks who try to reconcile the evolution/creation debate.
ultimately, i can only go whith what i believe to be absolutely true - fore example, it's time to go smoke a nice puros...

Yo rick what are we talking BC or AD, oh I'm sorry you don't believe it when people tell you that God is real but yet you believe it when people tell you that 6,000,000 Jews were kiled in the holocast (yeah right).

JonR

rcpilotva

jim croce? why you old bugger. i haven't heard that name for a long time. i'm glad to hear from someone who remembers him.

I don't pray, per se, but I Google. I can Google the bodies at Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Dachau. It's not a pretty picture, it makes you think. On the other hand, I can't google god, therefore it doesn't inspire much thinkage. There's a vast ocean between reality and fantasy; fact wise.

The earth would have to be billions of years old or it would get hard to explain fossils shells that are 405 million years old.Carbon dating shows Indian artifacts to be 40-50 thousand years old.I don't know if its 5 billion or 10 ,but it is not 10,000.

I do applaud some of the postings on this thread, And I respect rcpilot's logic of thought. The only problem with it is people look at a posting such as his (a good posting I might add) and it reads well to them and they are more confirmed that what they believe is truth.

People will make what's "out there" fit into the box of what they believe, and continue to try to make others feel stupid for believing otherwise.

I've got a challenge for anyone, can you "the christians" prove your case without the attempt of trying to make the evelutionist feel stupid? And can you "the evelutionist" prove your case without the attempt of trying to make the christians feel stupid?

Becuase if the only proof you have, is to cover up the insecurity that you feel about your particular belief by spending all your time saying why other people's belief can't be true, than you really don't have anything that I want to hear to begin with.

Country


I'm not exactly sure where the holocost comes into play here?

It has nothing to do with 'insecure feelings to make others look stupid.' Many facts can be looked up in tables: how old's the earth (google search: approximately 4.5 billion years old), how high is Mt. Everest (8,850 meters above sea level), what year was the US constitution signed (1787), etc. Ignoring the facts is stupid behavior, no one forces another to behave stupidly by discussing matters of fact. It is perfectly consistent to have spiritual or religious feelings, AND be aware of the facts of existence simultaneously. However, pursuing anything, including a religious philosophy, while ignoring simple facts is what's stupid. Pointing that out has zero to do with 'feeling insecure.' If you want to ad a creator back at the big bang, hey, more power to you I guess; seems improbable to me. But claiming the earth is only 10,000 is tantamount to pure idiocy. And you definitely would not want such a person teaching your kid's science class.

countryboy83

"I'm not exactly sure where the holocost comes into play here?"

it doesn't, but JonR thought it was worth saying. it wasn't.