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The Best Pitcher in the Last 50 Years ???
wheelrite Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
IMHO,,

Nolan Ryan, the Best ever...



A Texan don't ya know !!


wheel,
8trackdisco Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,081
Bob Gibson
wheelrite Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Gibsaon was Great but Ryan was better...


wheel,
wheelrite Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Gibason = Gibson
8trackdisco Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,081
Gibson was so dominate, they lowered the mound after the 1968(?) season.

When they change the game because you are too good at it, that means you were The Man.

I did enjoy the babysitting job Ryan did on Robin Ventura.
bgramza Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-12-2006
Posts: 1,275
Pitcher of Margaritas
donutboy2000 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Greg Maddux
4 consecutive Cy Young Awards
During that time he had a 75-29 record with a 1.98 ERA. Won at least 15 games in 17 consecutive seasons.
jetblasted Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Ryan & Maddox were GREAT pitchers ...
plinytheelder Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2006
Posts: 8,838
I'll go with 8track.
Bob Gibson changed the game. Ryan had almost 300 LOSES. 'nuf said.
wheelrite Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Ryan played from 1966 till 1993,

Um, 300 loses over that time is a pretty good ratio,,,


wheel,
Charlie Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Hard to pick just one so I will give you some great oness:

Bob Gibson
Sandy Koufax
Nolan Ryan
Tom Seaver
Greg Maddux

All big game pitchers....any one of them would be a selection for "Greatest" ever.

Charlie
hank56 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2008
Posts: 13,167
Steve Carlton is a strong candidate as well, IMO
DrMaddVibe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,444
Great list Charlie.

I gotta add...

Andy Messerschmidt
Randy Johnson
Rollie Fingers
Jack Billingham


The tandem of Ryan and Tanana was awesome to watch as a kid.

Tom Seaver was always my favorite pitcher.
pacman357 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 02-27-2006
Posts: 42,596
Add Danielle Lawrie. 2009 pwnage of the NCAA. 42-8 record in 2009, 0.97 ERA, 521 SOs in 352.2 innings. Pitched back-to-back games in single days, including one that went something like 15 innings. 21 shutouts, including 2 no-hitters and 4 one-hitters. USA softball player of the year for 2009, leading the Huskies to their first ever national championship. Went 5-1 with an ERA of 1.88 in the Softball World Series, and also hit a grand slam and had five RBIs. Struck out 24 batters in a 15 inning game. Went 90 scoreless innings at one point.


How that woman's arm is even still attached to her body is a mystery to me. She just dominated other teams and kept throwing innings like she was a friggin' robot.

Thought I'd choose a more unconventional reply. Listing all of her stats would take several inches of space here. For the rest of the story, go to

http://www.gohuskies.com/sports/w-softbl/mtt/lawrie_danielle00.html
pacman357 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-27-2006
Posts: 42,596
Add Danielle Lawrie. 2009 pwnage of the NCAA. 42-8 record in 2009, 0.97 ERA, 521 SOs in 352.2 innings. Pitched back-to-back games in single days, including one that went something like 15 innings. 21 shutouts, including 2 no-hitters and 4 one-hitters. USA softball player of the year for 2009, leading the Huskies to their first ever national championship. Went 5-1 with an ERA of 1.88 in the Softball World Series, and also hit a grand slam and had five RBIs. Struck out 24 batters in a 15 inning game. Went 90 scoreless innings at one point.


How that woman's arm is even still attached to her body is a mystery to me. She just dominated other teams and kept throwing innings like she was a friggin' robot.

Thought I'd choose a more unconventional reply. Listing all of her stats would take several inches of space here. For the rest of the story, go to

http://www.gohuskies.com/sports/w-softbl/mtt/lawrie_danielle00.html
pacman357 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-27-2006
Posts: 42,596
*sigh* Just not my month...
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
" The Best Pitcher in the Last 50 Years ??? "

The one that is full of Mai Bock.
jackconrad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Steve Carlton, Luis Tiant, The Rocket..
MACS Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,791
Who has more Cy Young's than Roger Clemens?

Nobody. (7)

That said, who has more no hitters than Nolan Ryan?

Nobody. (7)

That said, who was more dominant (not dominate, mind you, that's a verb... dominant is an adjective, which is what previous posters were looking for... fcuking idiot douche nozzles who don't know their grammar)

Sandy Koufax?

Nobody.


There's your three, folks.
topper7788 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-21-2006
Posts: 4,719
Sandy Koufax - NO CONTEST of course you have to old enough to have seen him pitch to really appreciate him..

If they had managed his pitch count the way they do today heaven knows how many games he could have won... The guy used to pitch over 300 innings a season in his prime!!!

Then Gibson...
plinytheelder Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2006
Posts: 8,838
Koufax was a great pitcher, but he only played 11 years.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/koufasa01.shtml?redir

3 Cy Youngs
MVP
Go to the bottom and look at all the 1st's for season stats.

Ryan?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/ryanno01.shtml

No Cy Youngs
Only a .526 winning percentage
Not much of a big game pitcher
222 complete games


Gibson stats:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wsdot/sets/72157621006556309/

Notice the Gold Gloves at the bottom. 9 straight years
2 Cy Youngs
MVP
255 complete games

But, most importantly... 1 LOWERED MOUND TO MAKE IT FAIR FOR THE BATTERS.
plinytheelder Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2006
Posts: 8,838
Seriously, Ryan giving Ventura a knuckle-sandwich to the noggin notwithstanding, he doesn't even place in the top 5 in best-pitcher-of-all-time lists.
HockeyDad Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,135
Rock Hudson
gringococolo Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
WATERBOARD GERBILS!!
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
^
Thanks Gringo, you're a real pal.
JonR Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Jim Bunning, without a doubt!



JonR
fishinguitarman Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
Richard Simmons
JonR Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Re #27:

I heard he was a catcher.


JonR
fishinguitarman Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
wide receiver
big chief Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2008
Posts: 10,378
How cool to see my favorite pitcher--Sandy Koufax--get some respect.

I saw hime pitch once against the SF Giants when I was maybe 12-13 years old...Maury Wills was playing, too. What a game I saw!
donutboy2000 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
With the 15-inch mound a constant, good hitters hit, good pitchers thrived, and the pastime thrummed along through three wars, a cruel Great Depression, and crowned its World Series champions.

So why did the Lords of Baseball decide in a fit of panic after a 1968 season known as "The Year of the Pitcher" that after 65 years of baseball's rhythmic swings they needed to lower the mounds by 26.6 percent to 11 inches?

It's an easy answer when the third-most radical rule change of the 20th century - behind creation of the designated hitter and the ban of the spitball - is viewed through the prism of 40 years.

The mound was lowered in an attempt to restore competitive balance to a game where the once-mighty AL had become decidedly inferior to the National.

How and why? Well, let's take a look at that so-called "Year of the Pitcher":

* Five American League pitchers - Luis Tiant, Dave McNally, Sam McDowell, Denny McLain and Tommy John - had ERAs under 2.00. None is in the Hall of Fame.

Now, let's check the hitters they faced that season:

Carl Yastrzemski led the AL with a .301 batting average. At No. 10 at .274 was Rick Monday. Only Yaz is a Hall of Famer.

Now let's check the National League:

Pete Rose won the batting title at .335; Roberto Clemente was 10th at .291. The NL produced below-average but not anomalous offense in a season when Bob Gibson's ERA was a modern-era record 1.12. Willie McCovey led the NL with 36 homers.

But the most telling numbers in the power stats were these: Six of the top 10 NL home-run leaders that year went to the Hall of Fame; all six were players of color. Just two of the top 10 AL home-run leaders, Yaz and Reggie Jackson, are HOF members. Just two, Willie Horton and Jackson, were players of color. Therein lies the real story.

By the late 1960s, the integration of African-Americans and Hispanics into MLB had become imbalanced. The National League had more talent and diversity, pure and simple. A rare confluence of peaking pitchers had driven the AL's offensive wing to its knees. But it had damn little to do with a mound that was the same height in 1961, when Norm Cash hit .361, Roger Maris hit 61 homers and six AL sluggers hit more than 40 bombs.

Same damn 15 inches . . .

The Lords of Baseball wanted to restore offensive balance. That's what they said at the winter meetings. What they didn't mention was that they really wanted to prop up the AL.

And, wow, look how it worked. In 1969, five AL sluggers, led by Harmon Killebrew's 49, hit more than 40 homers. Offense was up in both leagues. What the Lords didn't say was that the diluted pitching supplied by expansion teams in Seattle, Kansas City (replacing the A's' carpetbag move to Oakland), Montreal and San Diego might have had as much effect as the lowered mounds.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20090812_Bill_Conlin__MLB_should_raise_the_mounds_and_lower_the_ERAs.html
haon123 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2008
Posts: 1,328
Mariano Rivera.

MLB's leader in career postseason ERA (0.77) and saves (34).
Buckwheat Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Sidd Finch
Charlie Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Don't forget ::::::


Billy Chapel.............pitched a no hitter in his final game.



Charlie
chukwagn Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 04-28-2007
Posts: 25
Billy Mays
gringococolo Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
WATERBOARD 1994 VOLVOS!!!!
pdxstogieman Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
1) Warren Spahn
2) Tom Seaver
3) Bob Gibson
4) Sandy Koufax
5) Robin Roberts
6) Steve Carlton
7) Nolan Ryan
8) Randy Johnson
9) Don Drysdale
10) Mariano Rivera
burgess_b Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-07-2005
Posts: 23,212
my vote goes to Ryan, but that is a vote from the heart. watched him pitch. going to the games and sitting in the bleachers to watch him dominate trumps stats.

taking down ventura (1/2 his age) after he charged the mound was big...

finishing out the inning and more innings after getting a line drive in the mouth off of Bo Jackson is so much bigger. he was a warrior.

and let's be honest, you gotta look at the teams that surround the pitcher when you look at wins and Big Games. i love the Rangers, but they NEVER had any big games. his other teams were not much better. imagine how many wins he would have gotten on the Sox (either) or the Yankees...............
DrMaddVibe Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,444
Rangers?

You BETTER go back to the Angels pal!
burgess_b Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-07-2005
Posts: 23,212
Mets...Astros...never a great team...and without run support, it is always a pressure situation, which affects pitching.

any pitcher for the yankees should have a reasonably good winning percentage.
burgess_b Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-07-2005
Posts: 23,212
Randy Johnson has 300 wins...nearly 5000 K's...5 Cy Youngs. ha also hit a homerun...just sayin'
pdxstogieman Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
Here's some interesting biography and stats that I think supports an argument that Warren Spahn may well be the greatest pitcher of the modern baseball era. All done pre-steroids and even losing 2 seasons to WWII military service.

-----------
Warren Edward Spahn (April 23, 1921 – November 24, 2003) was an American left-handed pitcher in Major League Baseball who played for 21 seasons, all in the National League. He won 20 games each in 13 seasons, including a 23-7 record when he was aged 42. Spahn was the 1957 Cy Young Award winner, and was the runner-up three times, all during the period when just one award was given. He was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1973, with 83% of the total vote. (His eligibility was delayed, under the rules of the time by 2 years of token minor league play).

Spahn was regarded as a "thinking man's" pitcher who liked to outwit batters. He once described his approach on the mound: "Hitting is timing. Pitching is upsetting timing."

Spahn won more games (363) than any other left-handed pitcher in history, and more than any other pitcher who played his entire career in the post-1920 live-ball era. He is acknowledged as one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball history. The Warren Spahn Award, given to the major leagues' best left-handed pitcher, is named after him.

His major league career began in 1942 with the Braves and he spent all but one year with that franchise, first in Boston and then in Milwaukee. He finished his career in 1965 with the New York Mets and the San Francisco Giants. With 363 wins, Spahn is the sixth-winningest pitcher in history, trailing only Cy Young (511), Walter Johnson (417), Grover Cleveland Alexander (373), and Christy Mathewson (373), and Pud Galvin (364) on MLB's all-time list.

Spahn also threw two no-hitters, and won 3 ERA titles. He appeared in 14 All-Star Games, the most of any pitcher in the 20th century.

Spahn acquired the nickname "Hooks", not so much because of his pitching, but due to the prominent shape of his nose. He had once been hit in the face by a thrown ball that he was not expecting, and his broken nose settled into a hook-like shape. In Spahn's final season, during his stint with the Mets, Yogi Berra came out of retirement briefly and caught 4 games, one of them with Spahn pitching. Yogi later told reporters, "I don't think we're the oldest battery, but we're certainly the ugliest."

Spahn was known for a very high leg kick in his delivery, surpassed perhaps only by eventual Giants teammate Juan Marichal.[citation needed] Photo sequences show that this high kick served a specific purpose. As a left-hander, Spahn was able not only to watch any runner on first base, but also to not telegraph whether he was delivering to the plate or to first base, thereby forcing the runner to stay close to the bag. As his fastball waned, Spahn adapted, and relied more on location, changing speeds and a good screwball. He led or shared the lead in the NL in wins from 1957-1961 (age 36 through 40).

Spahn was also a good hitter, hitting at least one home run in 17 straight seasons, and finishing with an NL career record for pitchers, with 35 home runs. Wes Ferrell, who spent most of his time in the American League, holds the overall record for pitchers, with 37.


[edit] Brief call-up
First signed by the Boston Braves before the 1940 season, Spahn reached the major leagues in 1942 at the age of 21. He clashed with Braves manager Casey Stengel, who sent him to the minors after Spahn refused to throw at a batter in an exhibition game. Spahn had pitched in only 4 games, allowing 15 runs (10 earned) in 15-2/3 innings. Stengel later said that it was the worst managing mistake he had ever made. The 1942 Braves finished next to last, and Stengel was fired the following year. Spahn was reunited with his first manager 23 years later, for the even more woeful last-place New York Mets, and later quipped, "I'm probably the only guy who worked with Stengel before and after he was a genius."[1]


[edit] World War II
Along with many other major leaguers, Spahn chose to enlist in the United States Army, after finishing the 1942 season in the minors. He served with distinction, and was awarded a Purple Heart[1] and the Bronze Star for bravery. He saw action in the Battle of the Bulge and at the Ludendorff Bridge as a combat engineer, and was awarded a battlefield commission[1].

Spahn returned to the major leagues in 1946 at the age of 25, having missed 3 full seasons. Had he played, it is possible that Spahn would have finished his career behind only Cy Young in all-time wins. Spahn was philosophical:

"People say that my absence from the big leagues may have cost me a chance to win 400 games. But I don't know about that. I matured a lot in three years, and I think I was better equipped to handle major league hitters at 25 than I was at 22. Also, I pitched until I was 44. Maybe I wouldn't have been able to do that otherwise."[1]

[edit] Boston Braves
In 1947, Spahn led the National League in ERA while posting a 21–10 record. It was the first of his thirteen 20-win seasons. Spahn also won two more ERA titles, in 1953 and 1961.

On June 11, 1950, Spahn and pitcher Bob Rush of the Cubs each stole a base against each other; no opposing pitchers again stole a base in the same game until May 3, 2004, when Jason Marquis and Greg Maddux repeated the feat.[2][3]

In 1951, Spahn allowed the first career hit to Willie Mays, a home run. Mays had begun his career 0-for-12, and Spahn joked, "I'll never forgive myself. We might have gotten rid of Willie forever if I'd only struck him out." (In 1962, another Hall of Famer hit his first career home run off Spahn: Sandy Koufax, who only hit one other.)


[edit] "Pray for rain"
Spahn's teammate Johnny Sain was the ace of the pennant-winning 1948 Braves staff, with a win-loss record of 24–15. Spahn went 15–12 while, contrary to legend,[citation needed] teammates Bill Voiselle (13–13), and Vern Bickford (11–5) also pitched well. In honor of the pitching duo, Boston Post sports editor Gerald V. Hern wrote this poem which the popular media eventually condensed to "Spahn and Sain and Pray for Rain":[4]

First we'll use Spahn
then we'll use Sain
Then an off day
followed by rain
Back will come Spahn
followed by Sain
And followed
we hope
by two days of rain.

The poem was inspired by the performance of Spahn and Sain during the Braves' 1948 pennant drive. The team swept a Labor Day doubleheader, with Spahn throwing a complete 14-inning win in the opener, and Sain pitching a shutout in the second game. Following two off days, it did rain. Spahn won the next day, and Sain won the day after that. Three days later, Spahn won again. Sain won the next day. After one more off day, the two pitchers were brought back, and won another doubleheader. The two pitchers had gone 8–0 in twelve days' time.[1]


[edit] Milwaukee Braves
In 1957, Spahn was the ace of the champion Milwaukee Braves. Spahn pitched on two other Braves pennant winners, in 1948 and 1958. He had 2,583 strikeouts, which at the time of his retirement was the highest total for a left-handed pitcher in baseball history.[5] Spahn led the NL in strikeouts for four consecutive seasons, from 1949 to 1952 (tied with Don Newcombe in 1951), which includes a single game high of 18 strike outs (then the NL record) in a 15-inning appearance on June 14, 1952. For several decades, Spahn's Hall of Fame plaque contained a typographical error, crediting him with 2,853 strikeouts.[6]

Spahn maintained that "A pitcher needs two pitches - one they're looking for, and one to cross 'em up." He was thus able to maintain his position as one of the game's top pitchers until his 19th season in the sport. This was exemplified by his start on July 2, 1963. Facing the San Francisco Giants, the 42-year-old Spahn became locked into a storied pitchers' duel with 25-year-old Juan Marichal. The score was still 0–0 after more than four hours when Willie Mays hit a game-winning solo home run off Spahn with one out in the bottom of the 16th inning.[7] Marichal's manager, Alvin Dark, visited the mound in the 9th, 10th, 11th, 13th, and 14th innings, and was talked out of removing Marichal each time. During the 14th-inning visit, Marichal told Dark, "Do you see that man pitching for the other side? Do you know that man is 42 years old? I'm only 25. If that man is on the mound, nobody is going to take me out of here."[8] Marichal ended up throwing 227 pitches in the complete game 1-0 win, while Spahn threw 201 in the loss, allowing nine hits and one walk. Hall of Famer Carl Hubbell, who was in attendance that night, said of Spahn, "He ought to will his body to medical science."

Spahn threw his first no-hitter in 1960, when he was 39. He pitched his second no-hitter the following year. By the last two seasons of his career, Spahn was the oldest active player in baseball. He lost this distinction for a single day: September 25, 1965, when 58-year-old Satchel Paige pitched three innings.[9]


[edit] Final season
Following the 1964 season, after 25 years with the franchise, Spahn was sold by the Braves to the New York Mets. Braves manager Bobby Bragan predicted, "Spahnie won't win six games with the Mets." Spahn took on the dual role of pitcher and pitching coach. Spahn won four and lost twelve at which point the Mets put Spahn on waivers.[10] He was put on waivers on July 15, 1965 and released on July 22, 1965. He immediately signed with the San Francisco Giants, with whom he finished the season.


[edit] Retirement
Spahn managed the Tulsa Oilers for five seasons, winning 372 games from 1967 to 1971. His 1968 club won the Pacific Coast League championship. He also coached for the Mexico City Tigers, and pitched a handful of games there. He was a pitching coach with the Cleveland Indians, in the minor leagues for the California Angels, and for six years, with Japan's Hiroshima Toyo Carp.


[edit] Death
Spahn died of natural causes, at his home in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. He is interred in the Elmwood Cemetery in Hartshorne. After his death a street was named after him in Buffalo, New York that connects Abbott Road with Seneca Street, through Cazenovia Park, in the heart of South Buffalo. The street is near South Park High School, Spahn's alma mater.

A few months before his death, Spahn attended the unveiling of a statue outside Atlanta's Turner Field. The statue depicts Spahn in the middle of one of his leg kicks. The statue was created by Shan Gray, who has sculpted numerous other statues of athletes which stand in Oklahoma, including another one of Spahn that resides in the Oklahoma Sports Hall of Fame.


[edit] See also
300 win club
List of Major League Baseball leaders in career wins
List of Major League Baseball ERA champions
List of Major League Baseball strikeout champions
List of Major League Baseball wins champions
Top 100 strikeout pitchers of all time
MLB all-time leaders in home runs by pitchers
Major League Baseball titles leaders
List of Major League Baseball no-hitters

Other
Spahn was selected for the all-time All-Star baseball team by Sports Illustrated magazine in 1991, as the left-handed pitcher. The other selections were: outfielders Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Willie Mays; shortstop Cal Ripken, third baseman Mike Schmidt, second baseman Jackie Robinson, first baseman Lou Gehrig, catcher Mickey Cochrane, right-handed pitcher Christy Mathewson, relief pitcher Dennis Eckersley, and manager Casey Stengel.
Kawak Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Tony Romo...oh wait he's the catcher
gringococolo Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2006
Posts: 4,626
Brian,

Randy Johnson also killed a dove in mid flight.

He clearly has a better killer instinct than other pitchers. He gets my vote.
uncleb Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Best pitcher of the last 50 years?

Easy... My Son.
Charlie Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Bill

You hope so.......LOL


Charlie
pacman357 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-27-2006
Posts: 42,596
#41 You forgot he's also in the Mullet Hall of Fame.
Charlie Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Randy is hands down the ugliest pitcher in the last 50 years.

Nobody has mentioned the best big game pitcher ever....Curt Schilling. You need a big win, he is your horse.

Charlie
Palama Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 02-05-2013
Posts: 23,704
8trackdisco wrote:
Bob Gibson


+1
Burner02 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
Palama wrote:
+1



+2
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