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carmine7075 Offline
#51 Posted: Mon, Jul 8 2002, 2:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-17-2001
Posts: 40
Rick: Sorry to say that no matter who is in office, Presidential powers do not change. The point on JFK's autonomy in the military decision makeing process is an excellent example (although JFK the man, and how won his office, is quite a different story). I feel that Bush has done an admirable job. I was suprised by his composure and wise decisions to unite the country in a common cause because until that very moment I did not have much faith in him. Now its a different story. I also feel that neither Clinton nor Gore could have done so as effectively. The best defense is a good offense mentality is too far removed from their thought patterns. As evidenced by their massive military cuts during Clinton's term in office.
If President, Gore would still be stuck on the amount of environmental damage that may be done if he ordered a single 500lb bomb to be dropped, or the fact that bullets fired from our soldiers guns may actually injure someone (the enemy) lol. He (Gore) is in fact the polar opposite of a strong leader IMO.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#52 Posted: Mon, Jul 8 2002, 5:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
SteveS ---win lose or draw, i look forward to smoking cigars with you and think about the old days.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#53 Posted: Mon, Jul 8 2002, 5:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
carmine7075 ---come join SteveS and i in our cigar future get together.
daveyg2 Offline
#54 Posted: Mon, Jul 8 2002, 8:20 PM EST
Joined: 04-24-2002
Posts: 288
Carmine, you are wrong. The president has the power but rarely EVER uses it. Have you been in the Forces before or in any sort of military strategic planning? If you have, then such words would have never come out of your mouth. The man does EXACTLY what he is told, and now for your Kennedy reference...WHO WANTS NUCLEAR WAR?

The man was able to hold off as long as he could. Do you really think that we would have pre-emptively struck on such a destructive level without pure fact that were we currently under attack? Cmon. There is a difference between conventional war and any sort of use of mass destructive weapon use. The president had the right of way in that instance because he was then responsible for the loss of life on AMERICAN SOIL. Of course he and many other people had thought of the reprocusions and held off. Dont tell me that he was the only person with an educated guess that we werent currently being attacked. By the way, our country's policy in nuclear war is what is called "mutual response" meaning tit for tat. We NEVER strike first in unconventional war cases.
daveyg2 Offline
#55 Posted: Mon, Jul 8 2002, 8:27 PM EST
Joined: 04-24-2002
Posts: 288
Yeah, im sure that Gore would have been really concerned with the welfare of the sand in Afganistan. Stop making up garbage. The Clinton administration was the first to put hits on top terrorist leaders including binladen. Im sure that you will say how we screwed up and didnt kill him under the Clinton administration. Im also sure that you wont mention how we STILL havent gotten him under the new administration. Im no Clinton groupie OR Bush groupie. I give credit where credit is due.

Clinton was concerned environmentally also but that didnt stop us from fighting in Somalia and the old Yugoslavian region. Were we concerned about the health of the enemy there? Tell me we were. I would love to hear it. We had a good cause in Somalia and Europe. We did a lot of cleaning up in both regions, believe me.
SteveS Offline
#56 Posted: Mon, Jul 8 2002, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Hell, Rick ... you and I are both old enough that we could sit down right now, light one up and talk about the old days ... no need to wait for a few years ... LOL ... come to think of it, that wouldn't be a half bad idea, either ... I'd like to make that happen sometime in the near future ...
carmine7075 Offline
#57 Posted: Tue, Jul 9 2002, 3:13 AM EST
Joined: 10-17-2001
Posts: 40
Rick and Steve: Sounds like a plan. Good cigar and good conversation.
carmine7075 Offline
#58 Posted: Tue, Jul 9 2002, 3:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-17-2001
Posts: 40
Davey: Interesting that you tell me I am wrong and then validate my point. JFK wasn't my example by the way. I simply stated that it was a good one. Yugoslavia was a peacekeeping mission that is quite a different story. Our abligations in the UN and NATO send our troops to many places they should never have been doing jobs that don't concern our national interest. Its part of the reason we have so much anti-american sentiment. These rebels view americans as the imperialists when in fact it is the UN or NATO or some other body using american military might for their gain. Somalia was another exmple of misuse. Your comments are very conflicting to each other. The President has the power and uses it everyday whether he is in agreement with his advisors or not. He is still making the final call. A military man should know that he is the commander in chief! Gore is not important anymore, and I would be suprised if he received the nomination in the next election.
daveyg2 Offline
#59 Posted: Tue, Jul 9 2002, 6:47 AM EST
Joined: 04-24-2002
Posts: 288
i didnt really validate anything. i was saying how the power that you speak of isnt the real muscle that is flexed in Washington. Its true, but not really true. A military man knows the who the real chiefs are. Call him what you want to. As far as Yugoslavia goes, i think i know what it was, i was there. It doesnt change the fact that our President supported us and knew it was for a good cause. Gore would have done the same im sure as would any President. Because the man's a stick doesnt mean hes dead.
Todog Offline
#60 Posted: Tue, Jul 9 2002, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 05-05-2001
Posts: 804
Unless he's a Lone Wolf!!!
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