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Attention Citizens: Overview of Changes to Legal R
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Sun, Sep 8 2002, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
By The Associated Press



Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:



* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.



* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.



* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.



* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.



* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.



* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.



* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.



--September 5, 2002
cigarsmoke Offline
#2 Posted: Sun, Sep 8 2002, 5:44 PM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 100
Well it aint that simple but it is still wrong. Sure will be glad when people quit twisting out of context so that facts can be heard.
tailgater Offline
#3 Posted: Sun, Sep 8 2002, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I guess because Rick is tucked safely away out on the west coast he has forgotten what happened back here on the East Coast almost one year ago to the day.

The Feds are not out to arrest Joe Public. They just don't want to be hindered in their efforts to thwart a repeat performance by the Islamic towel-head murderers.

If you don't understand that, please take the trip out to the former sight of the World Trade Center in NYC. You might learn something.

adroomi Offline
#4 Posted: Sun, Sep 8 2002, 11:34 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Hey Hey Hey now....easy on the racial slurs. I agree with everything you are saying Tailgator, including the Islamic and Murderer part, however your arguement would have been more effective had you left out the "towel-head" part. Don't forget that racism breeds hatred which in turn breeds violence. More of those "towel heads" have died helping OUR cause in the past 5 months than you would want to know.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#5 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 4:10 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
tailgater

the feds don't know who killed JFK, or martin luther king and remember that chap jewel that was the prime suspect in the bombing at the olympics.

do you remember waco or ruby ridge?
no one knows who this ideologue ashcroft is arresting, it's a secret.remember he spent $8,000. for drapes to cover the bare tit of the statue of justice and he thinks calico cats are a sign of the devil. i have recently invested in two calico kittens which i wear around my neck like garlic to protect me.

what the hell does the loss of civil liberty have to do with 9-11.

: adroomi is correct, your racial bias walks ahead of you like a beacon of narrow mindness. please make a list of all the groups you don't like based on race, or religion, or gender, or sexual preference,like gays and lesbians, who i'm sure you do not have a personal affinity for or weight, or anything else you feel is devient or not to your liking, fold the list twice and it put the where the moon don't shine.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#6 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 4:13 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
tailgator
did you at least read the article.
by the way, the feds did a grand job anticipating the hijacking.
FINMANDAN Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 4:30 AM EST
Joined: 09-02-2002
Posts: 42
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR ANYONE ELSE, BUT I DEFINETLY HAVE A PERSONAL AFFINITY FOR LESBIANS.

ESPECIALY THE TOPLESS JELLO WRESTLING VARITY!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 6:56 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
FINMANDAN

sounds like a healthy attitude to me.
personally i like the pudding and the tapioca wrestling a little better.
xibbumbero Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 11:44 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 12,535
I don't know about anybody else,but FINMANDAN is a man after my own heart. Myself I'm a Lesbian in a man's body. X
Charlie Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 12:13 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Adroomi, I guess the fact that Tailgater threw the "towel head" on to the description of the Islamic nuts that flew the planes into our buildings, etc, makes it Politically Incorrect! However, I am middle eastern on my fathers side of the family and Irish on my mothers side and I think racial profiling and any other method to catch the nuts and whackos that are out to destroy us should be allowed. I personally think that Saudi Arabia (lays claim to 15 of the nuts) is no friend to the USA. I will never forget September 11, 2001 and I think we should quit allowing folks from the Middle East to invade this country until this mess is cleared up and the "nuts" are all crushed! Charlie
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Sep 9 2002, 4:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Charlie
what is going on?
i agree with everything you said.
el al profiles starting at the entrance to the airport.
el al has undercover marshals on all flights.
el al airplanes are not hijacked.

wow, i agree with charlie. i am going to have a beer and watch the game. i feel warm and fuzzy inside.
adroomi Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 2:25 AM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
Rick, this takes us back to your original thread concerning the loss of our civil rights. Make up your mind sir, please.
lgates4 Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 2:44 AM EST
Joined: 12-10-2001
Posts: 16
If it qwacks like a duck, looks like a duck, smells like a duck, it probably is a duck. Civil liberties must equal the maturity of the population. The life of one AMERICAN CHILD is more important than a individual's civil liberties. Stop the politics and develop a love for AMERICA.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 5:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
adroomi
i'm sorry. i'm not being a smart ass, but i can't find the inconsistency. you have found some and i would appreciate your pointing them out to me.

if i see a bunch of old men and women, and a bunch of men and their wives and children and a few men in their 20's or 30's, without american passports, and appearing to be of arabic descent. i select the last group for a little more checking before they get on my plane.
weatherman98 Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 5:29 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 22
When I read the original post, I am frightened. Almost to the point of shivers. That is just a small sample of what the Government can/will do to U.S. citizens.

When I think of the alternative, I am frightened. Almost to the point of shivers. Imagine what would happen if the Government remained blind and impotent in regard to terror investigations!

This is the "Catch 22" that always has (to some degree) and always will plague our Nation (while it exists.) Civil liberties Vs. potent and effective security/governing. It's a fine line that's being redrawn constantly. So long as we have intelligent, strong willed persons (like yourselves) on both sides of the line, it'll continue to run fairly down the middle of the road. Remember, many of these items already existed and have just been brought back into the light of politcal debate because terror investigations have been added to the verbage.
Charlie Offline
#16 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 7:47 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
"They" (the Terrorist Scum) use our freedoms to attack us and then stand behind the ACLU to get their "civil rights" and protect the cells and other groups that mean to do harm to any American citizen regardless of race, color, creed or age! Profile and catch the bastards! Charlie
Charlie Offline
#17 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 7:54 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
I have visited the USS Arizona Memorial and I cried on all occassions that I was there! I have not visited the "Ground Zero" site as I have not been to New York since 9/11/2001 but I am sure that I will cry when I visit Ground Zero! I cannot even understand the mentality of those who would perpetrate such an evil and horrible deed to innocent people! The Arizona and all the other ships were US Naval vessels and not civilian targets.............big difference! Japan had a military that had trained to attack us and go to war, the Middle Eastern based Al Queda and their brothers are nothing but trash and need to be destroyed at all costs!

Rick, it is not uncommon for us to agree on lots of things and every now and then even a political view can be mutually shared, but I do not see how anyone can disagree with this view point that the Terrorist must be stopped and stomped out and off of the face of the earth!

Charlie
sammydaddy Offline
#18 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 1:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-29-2001
Posts: 201
Rick, if you are angry at the lose of our civil liberties you are correct to be so, but if you are angry at the administration then your anger is misdirected. When those cowards did what they did one year ago THEY changed the world and THEY forced the loss of so many of our liberties, not just civil. We are at war and that will always entail extraordinary measures, always.
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 3:54 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Some good discussion for once.


Seems my shallow stereotype has offended a few of our readers. I make no appology.


As adroomi has correctly pointed out, my statement would hold more merit if I were to refrain from sophomoric name-calling. I agree. But the intended target of the offensive slur are only those involved with the murders and also those who justify their cause.


Let's not kid ourselves. A higher percentage of those followers of Islam hate America than that of any other religion. My disdain is directed at them.


I didn't feel this way back on September 10, 2001.


But I'm the bad guy because I took a verbal shot at their wardrobe.


Go Figure...
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 4:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Almost forgot.


Rick, seems you have more anger toward me than you do towards those murderers.


Get off your high horse. Our political views differ greatly, but how dare you judge me based on a simple post. You haven't been to Ground Zero or Oklahoma City. I've shed tears at both. And I've discovered a Great Love for people I've never met, and never will.

But I also found an anger and a hatred for those that are responsible. And despite your Anti-American bullsh*t, it ain't because of Ashcroft, or Bush, or anybody else in Washington.


I don't know if you need a reality check or a dope slap.
jjohnson28 Offline
#21 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
"I don't know if you need a reality check or a dope slap."

Excuse me T but do I get to vote? LOL
tailgater Offline
#22 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 4:30 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
No. This is a dictatorship. Didn't you read the original post?
adroomi Offline
#23 Posted: Tue, Sep 10 2002, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 05-10-2002
Posts: 10,143
I agree, we are finally having some decent discussion. Kudos to all! Yes, I too am very cautious when it comes to my trusting of people of certain ethnic heritage. I was at ground zero on April 19th at 9:02 am a few years back. I still carry the scars from that one (that's why I smoke cigars and chase Asian women today...life is too short-LOL). Regardless, I don't consider all white, middleclass, former GI's to be a terrorist threat to me. I do look twice at those of Arab descent though. Today is a special day, please take time to reflect on it.
Charlie Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2002, 7:25 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
I found out today that a friend of mine from college lost his son, a New York City Firefighter on 9/11. The lost firefighter's name is George DiPasquale, and I feel a deep loss due to the friendship his father and I had in college! God Bless all the Heroes of that tragic day! Hatred is a tough and bad thing and it is only manifested when someone does something as horrible as the 19 Terroist's did on 9/11. Sort of opens ones eyes when you see that 15 of the bast--d's were Saudi's! Friend or Foe..........I vote Foe!

Charlie
cigarsmoke Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2002, 8:23 AM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 100
The loss of civil liberties is horrendous. Some condone abuse of the majority so as not to offend the minority. Reasonable holdups to make things safer is understandable but denying any of the basic liberties that this country was founded on is totally uncalled for. History has shown that temporary and small injustices usually turn into the standard and big. (exam. Income Tax) I believe it was Franklin or Jefferson that said "He that gives up any part of his Liberty for a part of security deserves neither." This country was founded on free speech and religion yet, lately the liberals have done every thing to get rid of any type of reference to God in this country while trying to shove alternative lifestyles and such down our throats. The liberals in this country are the biggest threat in the world to our freedom. It may be time to start truly treating them as the enemy which they are.
SteveS Offline
#26 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2002, 8:32 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
"Any man willing to give up any part of his liberty for a false sense of safety deserves neither"

- Benjamin Franklin
cigarsmoke Offline
#27 Posted: Wed, Sep 11 2002, 6:28 PM EST
Joined: 07-14-2002
Posts: 100
Thank you steve
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