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Last post 21 years ago by bullwinkle. 8 replies replies.
IS THERE AN ANSWER?
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 1:08 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
my questions have nothing to do with bush, cheny, clinton, gore, the republicans, the democrats,
the conservatives, the liberals, the aclu, or the freepers.

on july 28, 1945, in a rainy overcast sky, a b-25 struck the 79th floor of the empire state building.
the pilot erred flying at 913 feet when he should have been flying no lower than 2000 feet on his approach to newark airport. the pilot and his two crewmen died as a result of his error. 11 people working in the building were also killed and more then a dozen were injured. three months later the building had been repaired. the empire state building had been completed in 1931 using the best technology available. it was made with steel girders

when we heard the news on the radio, my friends and i went to the "new park" built for the people living in the projects in queens. we were all 12 and 13 years old. from the park we could see under the 59th street
bridge and over welfare island, the chrysler building and the empire state building.

we all said we could see the plane sticking out the side, but all we really saw was smoke around the area of impact.

on sep 11 2001, another "day of infamy" occurred. one hijacked plane struck each of the twin towers and 3000 people died. the twin towers were completed in the late 60's and early 70's. they were built with the latest technology available. they were made with "steel supports."

when the planes struck, at most a few hundred souls could have been lost. entirely too many, but
not the 3000 that were murdered

my question is why did the towers collapse? i know the fire was so hot it melted the steel supports. why wasn't it built as strong the the empire state building? why were all the staircases located right near each other so when one was no longer usable, the other 2 were no longer useable?

all the planes they hijacked were flying a long hop and were loaded with fuel. how did those murders know that they should crash a plane loaded with fuel that would cause a a hot fire. did they know a hot fire would collapse the building?

i don't think i will ever get an answer, but i am compelled to ask the questions.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 2:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
The insideous plot was devised after the botched bombing plan didn't have the results they sooooooooo desired.

The core of the plan was to "train" people to fly the planes. A plane that's going across the US would naturally carry more fuel. After all of the "peaceful" muslims completed their flight schools they communicated back on their progress. The plan was given the green light. They booked as many seats on the flights as they could. Giving them the advantage in numbers.

The reason the towers crumbled and the Empire State Building(ESB) didn't is misleading. In the case of the WTC Towers, they meant to fly the planes directly into them. Next time anyone plays Jenga...poke your finger 3/4 of the way up the tower and watch what happens. The second fact is that the WTC Towers construction was made with a glass facade where the ESB had steel reinforced concrete. The sheer size of the B-25 and the jumbo jets is staggering as well.

I welcome this type of post by you, Rick. It's more refreshing than the "cut and paste".
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 4:00 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
sorry i don't understand this part
"Next time anyone plays Jenga...poke your finger 3/4 of the way up the tower and watch what happenss"
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 4:14 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
It's a stacking game where players take turns taking blocks out of the tower. It's shape is similiar to the WTC.
Charlie Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 10:53 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
The WTC was designed to withstand a Boeing 707, a lot smaller aircraft than the 757's and carries a lot less JP-4. Charlie
SteveS Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 11:22 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
also, it was not the impact of the plane that brought the building down ... it was the fire, the intensity of which was higher than it would have otherwise been due to the volume of fuel on the planes....

It became so hot, it melted the steel structure of the building's core, causing them to collapse ...

The perps (more accurately, those pulling the perps string) were themselves surprised when the buildings fell ... they hadn't anticipated that would happen and when it did, it was the source of much jubilation for them ... (ergo, the joyfulness we saw and heard so much about on the news)
xrundog Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 12:52 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
The Empire State impact achieved nowhere near the penetration that was seen on the WTC. Less fuel too probably. Firemen got to it and put out the fire. There have been some good programs on TLC and the Discovery Channel about the mechanics of the collapse. I don't think you can build something that would be economically feasible to withstand that kind of impact and fire.
rookie139 Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 3:22 PM EST
Joined: 03-02-2000
Posts: 2,149
Also keep in mind that those planes (unlike the one that struck the Empire State Building) was going at full throttle (I think they said something like 240 mph) when they struck the towers...I doubt the plane that struck the Empire State Bldg was going at full throttle, especially in 1945...I doubt they could go that fast anyway
bullwinkle Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Sep 12 2002, 4:17 PM EST
Joined: 05-03-2001
Posts: 1,206
North American B-25 Mitchell weighs in at 16000lbs with empty bomb bays, and has a max. speed of 292mph. If the pilot was landing, chances are his bomb bays were empty, and he wasn't doing near max. speed. (as per Jane's fighting aircraft of WWII)

Boeing 757 255,000lbs max takeoff weight (roughly 80000lbs of that is fuel), I'm going to assume that the plane was within 20000lbs that wieght at the time of the impact..Cruising speed is mach .8, which, if I'm not mistaken in somewhere around 650-700mph...(as per Jane's civilian aircraft)
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