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So...those Clinton years weren't so good after all?

Reeeeeeeeeaaaaalllly Jack, you sure you wanna go that direction. I guess you didn't realize all those rich people had tax breaks during the Bush Administration. Guess that didn't lead to an economic meltdown. Look at the charts, you will see what it has cost the middle and lower classes. Give the rich their tax breaks again, and all they will do is keep them in the bank. The same way that bailing out the banks just led to them holding on to the bailout money.
Dr. Maddvibbe- if you look at the chart, you will see, it did come up for lower and middle classes under Clinton. Then started to drop off under Bush.

Raising taxes on the rich used to work...until we struck free trade agreements with a bunch of 3rd world countries.

The only people who are under taxed are people that reside in the bottom half of the income brackets.If you live here you should pay some sort of income tax.The only exception is for those that are truely poor.
If that would happen I would'nt have to pay as much as I do...

^ WAAAAY to simple.

Even Charlie Rangle could figure those taxes out.

Huck, do a little investigation, before you make yourself look like a fool, oops, too late.

National sales tax would be simple and everyone would be treated equally. We could eliminate the IRS. The size, power, and influence of government could be greatly reduced. For those reasons, it will never happen.

The complex progressive income tax system we now enjoy is by and large a construct of our legislators; by tweaking the tax code they are able to reward major supporters and various special interest groups. Not many legislators would vote to restrict or eliminate that ability.

^ kinda like buying a car in Europe....don't you like their soft tyrranical socialism?

No, actually, it didn't. No one denies that giving loans out to people who couldn't pay them back was THE root cause for the recent economic "meltdown." It was facilitated by government via Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Period. Tax braks to the rich had nothing to do with it.

You are either a complete idiot to make such a connection, or a willing lackey (or undoubtedly both).



It started to drop off mainly because we had a huge influx of illegals flooding over the border, working for next to nothing, and being subsidized by the federal government. With kind of competition, of course wages are going to come down, you frickin' moron.

And now the unions are looking to make those illegal immigrant slave laborers into new union "brothers" after they put so many of your beloved union henchmen...er..."workers" out of work. And guys like you will cheer the move.

It is little wonder you're barely making it in the drywall business...

Flat consumption tax would (or could) be closer to 20%. Add that to your local sales tax and you could be paying %30 in some areas. I like the idea, but implementation is a problem also.


When I add up all the sales and federal taxes I pay under the current system, it is not 20% of my income. I also save close to 20% of my income.

Example 100k income, which 50% in consumable (flat tax goods). 20% of 50k = 10K in taxes. That is less than a person that makes 100k a year pays right now. I don't see the math at 15% flat tax working.

But I am not an economist.

I do like the idea of everyone paying a fair share (equal percentage).

End welfare breeding.

You will be amazed at how many of our country's ills that will cure.

I don't have any kids. So I will argue politics with these asshats instead.

The thing with creating any real change is that not enough people are willing to harrass their representatives into actually CHANGING anything. If a couple of dozen of us posters called our representatives and voiced our desire for a flat sales tax, cutting welfare, whatever, we would get brushed off. But if a few hundred thousand people did it, they might actually listen.

I agree, we should all get together and march down to the....hey look, there's a bright shiny thing on tv!

A few hundred thousand went absoluetly apesh*t over health care "reform," and it got passed anyways.

A few hundred thousand went absoluetly apesh*t over amnesty for illegal aliens yet, and that has yet to have a stake driven through its heart.

A few hundred thousand went absoluetly apesh*t over out-of-control government spending (which, make no mistake, 2008's Democrat turnover was about deficit spending), and they keep spending like drunken sailors.

Pardon me if I'm a tad pessimistic about what it takes to get elected representitives to listen. My opinion is that until you start physically throwing out the members of Congress that have more than two terms under their belt (regardless of party affiliation), you're going to get a legislature that is controlled by ensconced interests whose main ideology is the historical failure known as Socialism.

And guys, please, please, please, PLEASE:

NEVER speak of ideas such as a federal sales tax.
Those in Washington may like the idea.

And then institute it IN ADDITION to our current taxes.

Funny how that work thing always seems to get in the way of change. Technology has created longer days for most of us, and now, like most of the world that is owned by the large corporations, our people, like many much less advanced country's peoples are working harder and harder for less and less. Less pay, benefits, travel perks, whatever. Just harder and harder trying to buy buy buy. Consumers thinking they can buy themselves into happiness. After all, everyone on the tv commercials seems to be having so much fun with the fancy stuff they just bought.

Meanwhile half of US housewives watch a show called Desperate Housewives.

JPOTTS is an IDIOT

You get what you give:

"You are either a complete idiot to make such a connection, or a willing lackey (or undoubtedly both)."
"With kind of competition, of course wages are going to come down, you frickin' moron."
"So, until Democrat-boot-licking morons like you, drywalldog..."

JPOTTS is an IDIOT

Huh what? Don't make me send my security detail after you!

(Greetings from Eastern Europe, at an undisclosed location behind the Iron Curtain.)

The "poor" who clean the swimming pool, maintain the grounds, wait on tables at restaurants, cater parties, etc etc wouldn't have a job if it weren't for the "rich" that don't want to clean their pool, cut their grass, eat at home, etc etc etc.

So while Drywalldog is wallowing in self-pity and bitterness, he should consider that before he thinks the "rich" just take their money and stick it in a mattress and hoard it. Anyone here ever work for a company/business owned by a poor person? I'm not saying that every business owner is rich, but I was just wondering if it was the poor or the rich that created jobs.

A couple of real economic geniuses I tell you.

so are you saying that this capitalism thing is a failed model that even on paper is intended to eventually destroy the USA, and will?

Who do you think will get eaten first?