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Ethanol
stogiemonger Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2009
Posts: 4,185
Heralded by Bush and now Obama as a good sustainable replacement fuel for gasoline. But is it?

A little quick research will clearly show that ethanol mandates by the government have already resulted in many unintended consequences. Here are just a few, increased ground ozone pollution directly as a result of burning ethanol fuels (ozone pollutant a byproduct of burning this fuel), increases of nitrogen pollution in waterways from fertilizers used to grow corn (contributes greatly to the annual dead zone (hypoxia) in the Gulf of Mexico), increases in food prices (due to gov. mandates that a percentage of all corn grown must go towards ethanol production= higher prices for consumable corn for humans as well as livestock), ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline, so to meet the same energy demands, more gallons of ethanol would have to be produced, damage done to many engines across the nation (especially outboard boat engines).

I'm no expert in this field, to say the least, but, the more I read about ethanol fuel, the angrier I get that our government is shoving another bad pill down our throats. I did not get My information from Fox, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck etc., This information can be had even at sources such as NPR, Scientific America, Climate Central, Green America etc. So, do some research of your own and inform your friends so that the U.S. Government can be pushed to stop this stupidity.

We should be rallying together from left to right to stop government ethanol mandates now!
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
ThumpUp
DrafterX Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
I recently drove and 400 miles and got 17.9 mpg on ethanol free gas.... had to burn ethanol on the return trip and got 15.2 mpg....
stogiemonger Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2009
Posts: 4,185
DrafterX wrote:
I recently drove and 400 miles and got 17.9 mpg on ethanol free gas.... had to burn ethanol on the return trip and got 15.2 mpg....


Yeah, but You helped saved the planet on the way back. lol!

Seriously, I've had the same experience as of late.16.6mpg on ethanol free fuel.....14.4mpg on the 10% ethanol laced garbage in the Guzzler. Think
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Ethanol is really good for small engines like chainsaws and lawnmowers.....
donutboy2000 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Soon we will all be driving electric vehicles so the ethanol debate will be moot.
HockeyDad Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Ethanol is the nectar of the gods!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
Couple that with...

HEMP

The world's PREMIER food source
...

and you'd have happy proles abound!
Gene363 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
ZRX1200 wrote:
Ethanol is really good for small engines like chainsaws and lawnmowers.....


My local Stil dealer said to avoid blended gasoline. Just like cars, not all parts will withstand alcohol.

IMO, we are using ethanol in gasoline for the same reason we use corn based sweeteners, corporations like ADM buy up enough politicians and scientists to get laws past that require us to buy their crap. Oh, and the 'gotta fight the man' and eco-nuts who believe just about anything but the facts are always ready to help them out.
rfenst Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,410
Aren't newer model cars designed and built to run on blended fuel
Gene363 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
donutboy2000 wrote:
Soon we will all be driving electric vehicles so the ethanol debate will be moot.





Great! as long as we make the power in a nuclear power plant,
not a dirt burner(coal).
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,410
Gene363 wrote:


Great! as long as we make the power in a nuclear power plant,
not a dirt burner(coal).


I think clean, safe (relatively) nuclear enrgy is the way to go.
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
85% ethanol, giant solar farms, and giant wind farms are the way to go. You people need to be thinking about all the green jobs you're helping to create!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
Gene363 wrote:

My local Stil dealer said to avoid blended gasoline. Just like cars, not all parts will withstand alcohol.

IMO, we are using ethanol in gasoline for the same reason we use corn based sweeteners, corporations like ADM buy up enough politicians and scientists to get laws past that require us to buy their crap. Oh, and the 'gotta fight the man' and eco-nuts who believe just about anything but the facts are always ready to help them out.



True dat...strip away the subsidies and govt. involvement and it wouldn't sustain itself.

It's a fraud perpetrated on the US citizenry.

END THE MADNESS!

STOP THE PORK SPENDING!!!!
DrafterX Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
HockeyDad wrote:
85% ethanol,




man, you really want to piss off the Mexicans huh..? Huh
Gene363 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
HockeyDad wrote:
85% ethanol, giant solar farms, and giant wind farms are the way to go. You people need to be thinking about all the green jobs you're helping to create!



Has LeDad gone to work for Archer Daniels Midland Company?
wheelrite Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
rfenst wrote:
Aren't newer model cars designed and built to run on blended fuel

NO ,not all... Not above a 10% blend...

If you wanna find out, run a tank of E85 through you car and see what happens...
HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Gene363 wrote:

Has LeDad gone to work for Archer Daniels Midland Company?




Hey...Hey...

Who said I have any vested interest in this. I just care about what's best for the USA! Go green, baby!
Gene363 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
HockeyDad wrote:
Hey...Hey...

Who said I have any vested interest in this. I just care about what's best for the USA! Go green, baby!



Go green? Yes of course, green in your wallet. So are you invested in corn production or ethanol production?



It's not "Who said...", it's what you said.Speak to the hand
ZRX1200 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,656
Gene I know, my post was 98.2% sarcasm......

We had a couple stations around that actually sold non ethanol for small motor tools......guess who didn't like it.....freaking wackos. Now there has been some talks at least locally to be able to do so.

And Wheel is right^.
Gene363 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
ZRX1200 wrote:
Gene I know, my post was 98.2% sarcasm......

We had a couple stations around that actually sold non ethanol for small motor tools......guess who didn't like it.....freaking wackos. Now there has been some talks at least locally to be able to do so.

And Wheel is right^.



Doh! Got it now.

Doesn't it feel funny to agree with Wheel, I'm just saying... BigGrin

Our local Citgo and some independents carry ethanol free gasoline. Even our local discount supplier is advertising their 93 octane gasoline as ethanol free.
wheelrite Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
Lexus Recalling 214,500 Cars for Possible Fuel Line Corrosion Caused by Ethanol

By John O'Dell | on 01/22/2009 03:15 AM
Now we know why GM has been so enthusiastic about ethanol. The often-corrosive alternative fuel has proven to be the undoing of nearly a quarter million of rival Toyota Motor corp.'s high-end Lexus luxury models.



Lexus LS 460 models from 2006 through 2008 are among the cars being recalled.


Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are launching a safety recall affecting about 214,500 Lexus GS 300, GS 350, IS 250 and IS 350 and LS 460 and LS 460L vehicles from the 2006 through 2008 model years because of a potential fuel line problem.
Seems that low-moisture ethanol blends can corrode the cars' fuel delivery pipes, causing a warning light to come on and possibly eating a pinhole through the pipe wall, causing a fuel leak.

The automaker said no other Lexus models are affected.
Gene363 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
wheelrite wrote:
Lexus Recalling 214,500 Cars for Possible Fuel Line Corrosion Caused by Ethanol

By John O'Dell | on 01/22/2009 03:15 AM
Now we know why GM has been so enthusiastic about ethanol. The often-corrosive alternative fuel has proven to be the undoing of nearly a quarter million of rival Toyota Motor corp.'s high-end Lexus luxury models.



Lexus LS 460 models from 2006 through 2008 are among the cars being recalled.


Toyota and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are launching a safety recall affecting about 214,500 Lexus GS 300, GS 350, IS 250 and IS 350 and LS 460 and LS 460L vehicles from the 2006 through 2008 model years because of a potential fuel line problem.
Seems that low-moisture ethanol blends can corrode the cars' fuel delivery pipes, causing a warning light to come on and possibly eating a pinhole through the pipe wall, causing a fuel leak.

The automaker said no other Lexus models are affected.


Perhaps rice based ethanol? Dancing
cbc812 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
^ #9 hit the nail on the head. Ethanol is a scam.
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
Mad Ethanol pisses me off!!!
HockeyDad Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
cbc812 wrote:
^ #9 hit the nail on the head. Ethanol is a scam.



Ethanol has the full support of President Obama and is wonderful for the nation.

Buy more ethanol!
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
HockeyDad wrote:
Ethanol has the full support of President Obama and is wonderful for the nation.

Buy more ethanol!




then why is oil over 90 per barrel..?? I'll tell ya why... cause Obama and all his big oil croonies are driving up the prices so they can line their pockets... that's why... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Under the Obama Cone of Protection is a great place to be!

(In Florida we import our ethanol)
DrafterX Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
HockeyDad wrote:
Under the Obama Cone of Protection is a great place to be!




Think I should be like a Czar or something....
daveincincy Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
Jim Bob's down at the station pumping Ethel.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550

By MIKE SALINERO | The Tampa Tribune

Published: January 2, 2011

Updated: 01/02/2011 05:34 pm

APOLLO BEACH - Two years after plans fell through for an ethanol plant at the Port of Tampa, another biofuels operation is proposed for a former fish farm in south Hillsborough County.

Carlos Macho, owner of Mad Dog Mulching in Tampa, said he and partner Jason Davis want to build the ethanol plant on an 120-acre site just north of Big Bend Road, between U.S. 41 and the Seaboard Coast Line railroad tracks. Macho estimates the plant would employ 200-250 people.

"Hopefully by this time next year we should be running if God helps us," Macho said last week as he and Davis were helping clear brush from the land in preparation for topographical mapping.

The project is just getting off the ground. Macho said he hopes to have purchased the land by the end of March. County records show that Hung Mai, a civil engineer, pulled a permit last week to clear undergrowth on the land. Mai could not be reached for comment.

"This is sort of in the due diligence phase," said Peter Aloutto, director of the county Planning and Growth Management Department, which issued the permit. "We've not seen a site development plan. This is still in the look-see stage."

Macho and Davis also got a permit from the county's Environmental Protection Commission on Dec. 21 that allows them to fill hundreds of old fish ponds. Normally, developers must mitigate wetlands they destroy by building another wetland or buying credits in a wetlands mitigation bank. The EPC permit will exempt the plant from that requirement.

Macho said the plant would consume 40 million bushels of corn a year. He declined to discuss how much the plant would cost to construct or where he is getting financing.

"I need 210,000 acres in the state of Florida to grow corn," Macho said. "If I can get the farmers in the state to get involved, I could create 5,000 jobs. We really would like to expand even bigger."

The plant is not receiving any tax breaks or other incentives, said Gene Gray, county economic development director.

"We've had a small amount of interaction on the permitting side," Gray said, "but that's the extent of our involvement at this point."

The partners face challenges. Questions have arisen about whether ethanol is really an environmentally friendly remedy for the nation's oil addiction. Many environmentalists say the energy consumption it takes to grow the corn, transport it, and then turn it into ethanol cancels any energy savings.

But the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, under pressure from the farm lobby and members of Congress, is considering allowing the amount of ethanol in gasoline to rise from the current 10 percent to 15 percent for cars made in 2007 and afterwards. A spokeswoman said Thursday the EPA is awaiting data from the Department of Energy on ethanol's fuel efficiency and should make a decision early this year.



DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
Brick wall
HockeyDad Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
210,000 acres of new corn in Florida.....We can do that by eliminating a wildlife preserve or even just use some of the old sugar land around the Everglades. Heck, we could replant the sugar and use that instead of corn!
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
HockeyDad wrote:
. Heck, we could replant the sugar and use that instead of corn!




then the mexicans will have to use artificial sweeteners in there coke.... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Let them eat cake.
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
no more sopapillas for the mexicans..... Sad
HockeyDad Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Florida was arranging to pruchase 1.7 billion USD in sugar cane land for Everglades restoration. It was scaled back to only 10% of the original land size. If we had an ethanol plant in Florida, these sugar farmers would have a new market!
DrafterX Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
doesn't Jimmy Smitts already have the sugar market cornered down there...??? Huh
HockeyDad Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
I think Jimmy Smitts once parachuted out of a plane over Miami.

daveincincy Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Macho and Davis also got a permit from the county's Environmental Protection Commission on Dec. 21 that allows them to fill hundreds of old fish ponds. Normally, developers must mitigate wetlands they destroy by building another wetland or buying credits in a wetlands mitigation bank. The EPC permit will exempt the plant from that requirement.


Buying credits in a wetlands mitigation bank?? That sounds like it has the same usefulness as adopting a star?
jackconrad Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
(\ /)
(.’.’.)
(")_(")" ETHANOL"


I thought Jughead dumped her....
DrMaddVibe Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
HockeyDad wrote:
I think Jimmy Smitts once parachuted out of a plane over Miami.



No, that was Agent Orange with Jimmy Dean (THE REAL ONE TOO!!!) at Ft. Lee!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
daveincincy wrote:
Buying credits in a wetlands mitigation bank?? That sounds like it has the same usefulness as adopting a star?


Yes...and Carbon credits too!
Gene363 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
HockeyDad wrote:
Florida was arranging to pruchase 1.7 billion USD in sugar cane land for Everglades restoration. It was scaled back to only 10% of the original land size. If we had an ethanol plant in Florida, these sugar farmers would have a new market!



If we didn't have sugar price controls we could buy it from other countries for pennies.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
Gene363 wrote:

If we didn't have sugar price controls we could buy it from other countries for pennies.


That's what they said about oil too!!!
Gene363 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
HockeyDad wrote:
...Heck, we could replant the sugar and use that instead of corn!


Except the corn lobby has a better deal. d'oh!
HockeyDad Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Gene363 wrote:

If we didn't have sugar price controls we could buy it from other countries for pennies.



Buy American!

Drill baby, drill!
Gene363 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,863
HockeyDad wrote:
Buy American!

Drill baby, drill!


Good point, but what about those plastic slippers you bought from China for the reeducation camps? Shame on you
HockeyDad Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
They hold a trillion dollars of our national debt. Payback.
jpotts Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
Michian has been on the front lines of green biofuels technology. And look at all the good things it has done for our economy!

(Ignore the little Canadian-born former female gov. behind the curtain.)
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