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Last post 13 years ago by C99scrog. 16 replies replies.
Scott Walker (WI Gov) Making a Big Splash.
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8trackdisco Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Feb 12 2011, 11:13 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,103
If you are pro-union person, be prepared for outrage.

If not union inclined, enjoy.


Pension contributions

Requires employees who pay into the Wisconsin Retirement System to contribute 50 percent of their annual pension payment. That amount is estimated to be 5.8% of salary in 2011.
Health insurance contributions

Requires state employees to pay at least 12.6% of the average cost of annual premiums. Require changes to the plan design necessary to reduce current premiums by 5%. Local employers participating in the Public Employers Group Health Insurance plan would be prohibited from paying more than 88% of the lowest cost plan.
Collective bargaining

Makes various changes to limit collective bargaining for most public employees to wages. Total wage increases could not exceed a cap based on inflation unless approved by referendum. Contracts would be limited to one year and wages would be frozen until a new contract is settled. Collective bargaining units are required to take annual votes to maintain certification as a union. Employers would be prohibited from collecting union dues, and members of collective bargaining units would not be required to pay dues. Changes would be effective upon expiration of existing contracts. Law enforcement, fire employees and state troopers and inspectors would be exempt from the changes.
Limited term employees

Prohibits LTEs from being eligible for health insurance or participation in the Wisconsin Retirement System.
Absences and other work actions

Authorizes appointing agencies to terminate any employees who are absent for three days without approval or any employees participating in an organized action to stop or slow work if the governor has declared a state of emergency.
Health care, academic workers

Repeals the authority of home health care workers, family child care workers, UW Hospitals and Clinics employees, and UW faculty and academic staff to collectively bargain.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_3d93e6aa-363a-11e0-8493-001cc4c002e0.html
jackconrad Offline
#2 Posted: Sun, Feb 13 2011, 1:38 AM EST
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
What, That sounds like what average people have to do !





Not Even an Average Person OUTRAGE !!
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted: Sun, Feb 13 2011, 6:58 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
This types of things are also being proposed by the new Governor of Florida. The gravytrain might get cut off.
bloody spaniard Offline
#4 Posted: Sun, Feb 13 2011, 12:44 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
What Jack said- welcome to the all you can eat shiit buffet. The rest of us have been taking bites of the sandwich for years.
First, jobs are outsourced, now this. Welcome to the club. Stay tuned for more.
donutboy2000 Offline
#5 Posted: Sun, Feb 13 2011, 2:26 PM EST
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Too little too late.

The public employee unions have already bankrupted the states.
MACS Offline
#6 Posted: Sun, Feb 13 2011, 9:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
I am IN a union, but I am not necessarily PRO union. I actually think our retirement benefits ARE too generous. People should not be able to retire with 90% of their pay. I think it should be capped at 75%, myself (just like the military).

That being said... OUR county is being unreasonable in its demands. They want to cut our pay by 10%. On top of that... after 3 years of paying 9% of our pretax pay into the retirement system, the county picks that up. Now they want us to pay that, too. So, in essence, they want us to take a 19% pay cut.

That is absolutely ridiculous. They claim to be going bankrupt, but the last time they were audited they "found" 16 million dollars.

CalPERS is doing juuuuust fine. They want you to think they're not, because the 'higher-ups' in that same system are worried about their 200k a year pensions, so they want to rape the 40k a year folks. F*ck them.

The county board of supervisors, who make 140k for meeting 4-5 times a frickin month gave themselves a 10% raise last go round so they could take a 10% cut this go round and say they're doing their part. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTT (that was me pulling the bullshiite horn)
HockeyDad Offline
#7 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 3:38 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2010/04/05/daily15.html

Study: CalPERS and CalSTRS underfunded by almost $500B



Most state pension funds are more underfunded than Social Security and Medicare. In the private sector, retiring with 75% of your pay would be the sort of thing you might hear for executive VPs at Fortune 500 companies.
Stinkdyr Offline
#8 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
donutboy2000 wrote:
Too little too late.

The public employee unions have already bankrupted the states.



word.

but this is at least a start.

whip
MACS Offline
#9 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 10:43 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
Hockeydad, that was done by a student who looked at PUBLIC records. What they WANT you to see.

We contribute 9% of our pay for 3 yrs. We're not vested until 5 yrs. All those folks who work there and leave before the 5 yr mark contributed all that money and will never see a dime of it. The average calpers retirement is $36k a year.

It's the city officials and board of supervisors (et al) who are doing the damage. NOT the average worker. THEY need to take the larger pay cuts.
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 11:06 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
MACS wrote:
Hockeydad, that was done by a student who looked at PUBLIC records. What they WANT you to see.

We contribute 9% of our pay for 3 yrs. We're not vested until 5 yrs. All those folks who work there and leave before the 5 yr mark contributed all that money and will never see a dime of it. The average calpers retirement is $36k a year.

It's the city officials and board of supervisors (et al) who are doing the damage. NOT the average worker. THEY need to take the larger pay cuts.




It is more than just government records. It is also affected by how government has to account for long term liabilities versus corporations. The government rules allow them to not track shortfalls on their books whereas corporations go to jail for the exact same thing. There is a reason that companies dumped traditional pensions for 401Ks.

In a traditional pension, you are guaranteed a certain return after vesting. The government now has to take that amount you paid in and invest it and turn it into a much larger amount. If they are not successful, they have to make up the difference with taxpayer money. The employee takes zero risk and the pension fund takes all risk. In a 401K, the employee takes all risk.

Operators of traditional pensions have figured out that they generally lose unless they were incredibly good at investing. Corporations go bankrupt when this happens. Governments raise taxes or slash services.

The traditional sweetheart government pension for many years was viewed as in lieu of compensation. People could make far more money in the private sector but the pension is why they stayed. Over the last ten years, private sector pay has stalled while government pay kept increasing such that people can make more in government and also get the sweetheart pension. Globalization will keep private sector pay from leapfrogging again but it has no affect on the continuing growth of government pay. Only taxpayer outrage can affect government pay.

Government is the place to be....right up until the moment that it isn't.
MACS Offline
#11 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 11:23 AM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
Like I said before... I agree that our retirement benefits are too generous. But the fact remains that the majority of the damage being done is by the high paid folks in the system, not the entry level folks.

140k for meeting 4-5 times a month? REALLY?

Jobs and pay like that need to go.

There was one city in CA that was recently in the news... I think it was Baker? Where the Mayor or somebody was making $600k a year! More than the damn President. It's that problem that needs to be addressed, not some entry level CO that makes $20 an hour.
HockeyDad Offline
#12 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 11:36 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
MACS wrote:
Like I said before... I agree that our retirement benefits are too generous. But the fact remains that the majority of the damage being done is by the high paid folks in the system, not the entry level folks.

140k for meeting 4-5 times a month? REALLY?

Jobs and pay like that need to go.

There was one city in CA that was recently in the news... I think it was Baker? Where the Mayor or somebody was making $600k a year! More than the damn President. It's that problem that needs to be addressed, not some entry level CO that makes $20 an hour.





In the grand scheme of things 5-6 high paid commissioners are a tiny fraction of a pension that has thousands of members. You could zero out their salaries and not make a scratch. I would agree though that 140K for a county commissioner is high. I think here in Tampa our county commissioners make around $92K.

A salary of $140K should be reserved for the "suits like me" at companies like Geo Group and CCA that will come in and convince those commissioners that they can outsource their entire jail system and reap saving of $50 million a year and get out from under the pension liabilities. Taxpayers love to hear that kind of stuff rather than unions fighting over pay and pensions during the Great Recession. When the game of chicken starts, don't think those suits are not out there lurking and wining and dining.
MACS Offline
#13 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 12:12 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
Well, when you're done with the thrashing and slashing... how'z 'bout a cush job for your cigar buddy, eh?

I got suits and ties and stuff. And if I make 92k a year I could afford more... just saying.
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 12:44 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
We can figure something out! How 'bout plant security at an ethanol plant?

I just gotta get you thinking like me.....

When you see that "Contains 10% Ethanol" sticker on the gas pump, you need to think "I can't believe they fell for it...and subsidize it!".

When you stand under a high voltage electric transmission line and hear it hum and crackle you need to think "That is the sound of money rushing through those lines! How can I get more electric cars out there so I can push even more money through those lines! Tax credits for electric cars!"




My experience with unions is that they are suicidal parasitic organizations. Eventually they get so fat that they kill the host. A telltale indicator is to watch for who the union negotiators are. What is their "skin in the game". Who are their national level union advisors. These people tend to do just fine even when the union dies and they wind up in various high paying political jobs. When they start playing chicken, most often they are taking zero personal risk and transferring all that risk to the actual union membership who often doesn't understand the suicide mission.
MACS Offline
#15 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 1:11 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
Never been part of a union before. Membership in this job is mandatory. I pay $120+ a month in dues... money that I feel would better serve me going into my 457b account.

But... it's the job I picked when I retired from the Navy and because of the 3+ years I have invested, and the lack of opportunities at the present time, I'm stuck with it.
C99scrog Offline
#16 Posted: Mon, Feb 14 2011, 3:03 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2010
Posts: 221
So unstick yourself.
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