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Defector lied about WMD's...
DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
Think

Iraqi Defector Admits Lying About WMD to Topple Saddam Hussein

Published February 16, 2011

KARLSRUHE, Germany -- A defector whose claims that Iraq had biological weapons were used in justifying the 2003 U.S. invasion has admitted that he lied to help get rid of Saddam Hussein, The Guardian newspaper said Tuesday.

"Maybe I was right, maybe I was not right," Rafid Ahmed Alwan al-Janabi told the British newspaper.

"They gave me this chance. I had the chance to fabricate something to topple the regime. I and my sons are proud of that and we are proud that we were the reason to give Iraq the margin of democracy.

"I had to do something for my country, so I did this and I am satisfied because there is no dictator in Iraq any more," he added.

Janabi, codenamed Curveball by German and American intelligence officials, told the BND, Germany's secret service, that Iraq had mobile bio-weapons trucks and had built clandestine factories.

Even after he went back on his story after being confronted with denials from another source, his former boss, the BND continued to take him seriously, he said.

The BND confronted Janabi with a statement from Bassil Latif, his former boss at the Military Industries Commission in Iraq, who said there were no trucks or factories.

"OK, when [Latif says] there no trucks then [there are none]," the paper reported Janabi telling the BND.

Despite his admission, Janabi said security officials continued to take his claims seriously. They told him in 2002 that his pregnant wife might not be allowed to join him in Germany if he refused to cooperate.

The faulty information Janabi provided helped form the cornerstone of former U.S. secretary of state Colin Powell's key address to the United Nations on Feb. 5, 2003.

During the speech, Powell described Janabi as "an Iraqi chemical engineer" who "supervised one of these facilities."

"He actually was present during biological agent production runs and was also at the site when an accident occurred in 1998," Powell told the U.N..

Janabi said he was "shocked" by Powell's speech, but played down his role in the conflict.

"Powell didn't say I was the only reason for war, he talked about three things -- uranium, al Qaeda in Iraq and my story [biological weapons]," he said.

And he accused the BND of having broken an agreement that they would not hand over his information to other countries.

Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief in Europe, said Janabi's "fascinating" admissions "makes me feel better."

"I think there are still a number of people who still thought there was something in that, even now," Drumheller told The Guardian.

German authorities approached Janabi in 2000 after identifying him as a Baghdad-trained chemical engineer with possible inside intelligence of former leader Saddam's regime.

Janabi, who fled Iraq in 1995, denied that he lied to the BND in order to secure asylum, claiming he did it purely to topple Saddam.

"I had a problem with the Saddam regime, I wanted to get rid of him.

"Believe me, there was no other way to bring about freedom to Iraq. There were no other possibilities," he said.


Film at 11.... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,552
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfImiqpf6eo
cbc812 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
Wait - so the premise on which we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of soldiers' lives was BOGUS? Holy cow! Who could have seen this coming?!?!?

Well, at least it was worth it, because Iraqistan is now TOTALLY awesome.
HockeyDad Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
oops.
Kawak Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Can you imagine if Saddam was still in power these days. He would have Obama bent over while pulling his big dumbo ears asking what's my name b&%ch. The world is better off. If Barry wasn't POTUS we could move on to Iran, North Korea and the worst of the evil empires New York City.
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Nuke the Hamptons!
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
how do we know he's not lying now..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
This is why we need more water-boarding.

Or at least make him "pinkie promise" next time.
fishinguitarman Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
DrafterX wrote:
how do we know he's not lying now..?? Huh






He's GOT to be lying now! Now we can't blame all of it on Bush! What's a lefty to do!
cbc812 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
Iraq is the new black!!

That war was totally worth it....our country is better off for it.

Let's take over some other countries for no reason. After all, we have trillions to burn, and Americans don't mind their soldiers being killed and maimed for no reason, right?!?!?

I say we take out Madagascar next, unless they can PROVE that they have no WMD program-related activities and stuff.
fishinguitarman Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
Then On To Indonesia!!!
cbc812 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
You said it fishy.....we need to occupy some surf camps and seafood markets. I'll volunteer for that duty!
apachelm Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2008
Posts: 8,549
cbc812 wrote:
Iraq is the new black!!



I say we take out Madagascar next, unless they can PROVE that they have no WMD program-related activities and stuff.


How about some REAL critical thinking? I mean it wasn't like Saddam ACTUALLY EVER USED any chemical weapons right?
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
The Iraq war was for Israel. Besides, I already said "oops". What else you want? Sheesh.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,552
I miss Baghdad Bob's pressers...it was like watching Gibbs only with berets and military garb.whip whip


daveincincy Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I miss Baghdad Bob's pressers...it was like watching Gibbs only with berets and military garb.whip whip




I thought "berets" said "breasts." LOL

I'm not a WMD expert.
-Gibbs
Stinkdyr Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
cbc812 wrote:
Iraq is the new black!!

That war was totally worth it....our country is better off for it.

Let's take over some other countries for no reason. After all, we have trillions to burn, and Americans don't mind their soldiers being killed and maimed for no reason, right?!?!?

I say we take out Madagascar next, unless they can PROVE that they have no WMD program-related activities and stuff.



it's all to protect Israel.
rfenst Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,415
HockeyDad wrote:
The Iraq war was for Israel.



Bu11$hit!

We went to war in Iraq on the belief of WMD being in the "wrong" hands; to "protect" oil supplies and "oil allies' like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others, from Saddam's threat; to try to keep the region stable; to finish up what was never accomplished by Bush1; and to sell Iraqi society/government our stupid little dream that every one can and should live in a democracy- whether they like it or not. Israel was only of minor concern in the decision to attack- it still would have happened even if Israel was our enemy or there was no Israel.

Now, as to WMD: Unless intelligence was knowingly faked, I have no problem with what we did- just some of the reasons we did it for and how we did it. I cannot fault anyone for the start of the war if they unknowingly acted on inaccurate information.

However, I do not think that our current occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan is in our best interest. I don't want to see American soldiers risking and losing their lives. We have no business spending the billions and billions of dollars we already have spent and will continue to spend. After all these years, Iraq is a lost cause. And, will never be successful in the ground war. Hell, neither country even wants our "help" anymore. Then, there is the issue of Bin Laden. It is too late to do anything about him. There are plenty of dangerous radicals in the world we can work on. Who knows if he is even still alive. If we capture him, nothing will even change. The same threats will be there.

Mark my words, neither Iraq nor Afghanistan will ever become a stable democracy or long-term "friend" of the U.S., within our life times or our children's lifetimes.

Bring our soldiers home; quit pissing away money and bomb or nuke them into submission.
cbc812 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
rfenst, PUH-LEEZE

We went to war in Iraq to forestall the inevitable nuclear armageddon that Saddam would have visited on our great nation had we given that dweeb Hans Blix even a week longer to ****** around not finding anything.

You should consider yourself lucky that our leaders and their proxies had the foresight to launch a stupendously expensive war there so that we aren't having to engage in hand-to-han combat with Iraqi invaders here.

Since you think differently, you obviously hate:

America
The Troops
Jesus
American Idol
The Rich
Joe Lunchbox
Hockey Moms
Apple Pie
Everything else we hold dear

Why do you hate America, rfenst? Why do you wish Saddam had been able to take over our country?
tailgater Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
cbc812 wrote:
rfenst, PUH-LEEZE

We went to war in Iraq to forestall the inevitable nuclear armageddon that Saddam would have visited on our great nation had we given that dweeb Hans Blix even a week longer to ****** around not finding anything.

You should consider yourself lucky that our leaders and their proxies had the foresight to launch a stupendously expensive war there so that we aren't having to engage in hand-to-han combat with Iraqi invaders here.

Since you think differently, you obviously hate:

America
The Troops
Jesus
American Idol
The Rich
Joe Lunchbox
Hockey Moms
Apple Pie
Everything else we hold dear

Why do you hate America, rfenst? Why do you wish Saddam had been able to take over our country?


Sarcasm can stimulate a discussion, but it becomes borish when it remains the emphasis.
I give you credit, cbc, because you've always been against the war from day as far as I can remember. But before you blush uncontrollably realize that you were only against it because you were against everything-that-was-Bush.

In any event, without WMD's we're slowly watching the quiet minions arise from their slumber to point one last finger at Dubya before they have to make a determination regarding the current situation and "their guy" who's in the office now.

Or, we can look backwards and continue the blame game.
Because the present day is MUCH scarier than entering into a new war.
HockeyDad Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
rfenst wrote:
After all these years, Iraq is a lost cause. And, will never be successful in the ground war.


Do you realize that we already won the ground war and peace has broken out?



We weren't protecting Saudis, Kuwaitis, and oil supplies. Those nations were already packed full of US troops and weren't in danger. Turkey wasn't in danger. Iran wasn't in danger. Jordan wasn't in danger, Syria wasn't in danger. Europe wasn't months away from being in range of long range nukes.

The only thing that was in danger was maybe a SCUD missle hitting a US base in Kuwait......or Israel. Even US aircraft crisscrossing over Iraq daily weren't in any real danger other than metal fatigue on the airframe.

We eliminated a threat....just like we've been asked to do with Iran now.
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,245
Israel was asked by, and cooperated with, the US to stay out of this war. Somehow they remained restrained when scuds were bouncing on sidewalks in their cities. They laughed then at how pathetic Iraq was, knowing to a man that they could enter and end a war with Iraq in a couple of days...max! Do not buy that they needed us to protect them, I'm sure their intelligence had more info than ours about this great "threat". And if they needed protection, why shouldn't it be universally accepted foreign policy that the US aid the ONLY DEMOCRACY in the area, one of maybe a couple nations in the entire world that would assist us if we were attacked. Ya think Yes U Are A Fart would have helped us? Suuuuuure he would. And Osama is Saddam.

Hard to believe, but Clinton had Iraq and Saddam under control, they couldn't get a plane out of there to hurt us or Israel with the Fly Zones. His people were abused, but so are Chinese, N Koreans, etc etc. Let them revolt, just like many here advise Cubans to do.

We did not eliminate a threat because he was only a threat to his own people. But to our benefit, he kept the anti-US terrorists and the religious zanies out of Iraq...until the borders fell.




teedubbya Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
One thing we do know is that we should not consider the occupation of either Iraq or Afg. in terms of the impact on our economy. History has shown that the invasion of such countrries makes the superpower stronger economically and is never a drain.

and Hans Blix is an efftard.
cbc812 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
TG - I wasn't quite against everything Dubya did. I fully supported the Afghan invasion and pursuit of OBL, which happened to be one of the strongest strategic arguments against the misadventure in Iraq.

In any event, you must remember the hysteria in the time leading up to the Iraq invasion. Those who opposed the war for reasons strategic, fiscal, or just because they saw the reasoning for the bull**** it was were vilified as terrorist sympathizers, surrender monkeys, America-haters. Lack of support for the war was equated to lack of support for our troops. The rhetoric was childish and incredibly inaccurate, but had the desired effect on dissent among the decision makers.

So forgive those of us who accurately saw the Iraq invasion as a tragic mistake predicated on lies for taking a sardonic victory lap when we are once again proven absolutely correct.
HockeyDad Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
Eliminating a threat is not the same as "protection". Israel doesn't need military protection from any nation in the Middle East. What they need sometimes is politically viable military solutions which have someone else do their dirty work. What they need at ALL times is financial assistance. Although Israel could wipe out any of their neighbor's military, Israel can't afford the economic hit that happens every time they shut down the country to go to war and they can't afford to put troops on the ground. Israel truly can easily afford quick air wars. Beyond that things get very difficult.
teedubbya Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I voted for Bush and was behind him up until Iraq.... I even gave him the benefit of the doubt up until the Powell UN speach. Then it was oh **** we got nothin. It was pretty clear then...unless you just really wanted to believe.... which is ok I guess.

What is funny is the other day I caught myself wanting to give the big O the benefit of the doubt that he knew more about the situaiton in Egypt then we give credit for and thats what drove his decision making. bnnnnnn wrong answer. Sigh... Bush ruined me.

Funny though how the very people that defended that dolt to the end and kept claiming there was more we don't know as the rationale do the exact opposite to the Prez they don't like. I guess thats human nature. if you consider sheeple humans.
HockeyDad Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
teedubbya wrote:
I voted for Bush and was behind him up until Iraq.... I even gave him the benefit of the doubt up until the Powell UN speach. Then it was oh **** we got nothin. It was pretty clear then...unless you just really wanted to believe.... which is ok I guess.

What is funny is the other day I caught myself wanting to give the big O the benefit of the doubt that he knew more about the situaiton in Egypt then we give credit for and thats what drove his decision making. bnnnnnn wrong answer. Sigh... Bush ruined me.

Funny though how the very people that defended that dolt to the end and kept claiming there was more we don't know as the rationale do the exact opposite to the Prez they don't like. I guess thats human nature. if you consider sheeple humans.



It is OK. You can just say JPotts!
teedubbya Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
LMAO in my GHWB voice "nah gon doit"

I actually think about him when reading the recent reports on the toyota brake issue.
HockeyDad Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally.

But before everyone pats themselves too much on their backs, the "No war for oil" crowd were as equally wrong as the "Iraq will nuke us in less than a year" crowd.

In the end, the Iraqi threat to the world was eliminated. It just turns out that the threat was a lot more wimpy than many believed. Russia, Germany, and France got it right.
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Just say it. You would hug the UN if your arms were longer
frankj1 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,245
^
believe it or not, I agree with most of this. But this war had nothing to do with Israel. Iraq was not a serious threat. Countries and radical organizations that do not show Israel on their World maps are threats to their existence. How can one negotiate with those who live by a slogan of "from the river to the sea".

If I am correct in inferring a sort of "public relations" issue or world opinion angle for Israel from your words, I believe you misunderstand the mindset of a country under seige. They don't give a crap what the world thinks...they think "survive". Never Again is not a catchy marketing slogan. I apologize if I am putting words in your mouth.

Financial assistance to Israel makes sense for Americe, the payback far outweighs the dollars, many of which do come back. Has the roughly same aid to Eqypt paid off over the decades? Would they fight along side us if push came to shove?
DrafterX Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
I think Egypt hates us too.... at least one of them on tv last week said they did.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
"But before everyone pats themselves too much on their backs, the "No war for oil" crowd were as equally wrong as the "Iraq will nuke us in less than a year" crowd."

I'm ok with war for oil. But I also think the no war for oil crowd was wrong as well. They gave Cornwallace Bush too much credit. He is simply a dolt.
cbc812 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
"The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally."

I never thought I'd see the day that the HockeyDad would accuse the Bush Administration of committing acts of terrorism against the American people. Whooooooo boy!
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,245
31 for 25

Frank
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
cbc812 wrote:
"The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally."

I never thought I'd see the day that the HockeyDad would accuse the Bush Administration of committing acts of terrorism against the American people. Whooooooo boy!




the HockeyDad believes the 911 conspriracy..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
cbc812 wrote:
TG - I wasn't quite against everything Dubya did. I fully supported the Afghan invasion and pursuit of OBL, which happened to be one of the strongest strategic arguments against the misadventure in Iraq.

In any event, you must remember the hysteria in the time leading up to the Iraq invasion. Those who opposed the war for reasons strategic, fiscal, or just because they saw the reasoning for the bull**** it was were vilified as terrorist sympathizers, surrender monkeys, America-haters. Lack of support for the war was equated to lack of support for our troops. The rhetoric was childish and incredibly inaccurate, but had the desired effect on dissent among the decision makers.

So forgive those of us who accurately saw the Iraq invasion as a tragic mistake predicated on lies for taking a sardonic victory lap when we are once again proven absolutely correct.


Unfortunately, you're right about the "anti-American" BS.
But how did you personally "know" that the Iraq invasion was predicated on lies?
No one in congress knew, and the few countries who cried foul were proven to be in bed with Saddam to begin with.

HockeyDad Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
cbc812 wrote:
"The run-up to the war just goes to show that terrorism works. A scared nation sometimes reacts irrationally."

I never thought I'd see the day that the HockeyDad would accuse the Bush Administration of committing acts of terrorism against the American people. Whooooooo boy!



Actually if it weren't for terrorism on 9-11, the USA would have gone right along with the current plan of not really giving a rat's azz about Iraq.

But as far as terrorism against the American people.....

Patriot Act

....and soon the CyberTerrorism Act
frankj1 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,245
re 37

no weapons were found

and

No Iraquis were involved in 9/11.

That's how.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,552
tailgater wrote:
In any event, without WMD's we're slowly watching the quiet minions arise from their slumber to point one last finger at Dubya before they have to make a determination regarding the current situation and "their guy" who's in the office now.



Well, there's the rub.

The Kenyan King campaigned HARD that he would end the wars.

He's escalated them.

The finger pointing at W...for acting on the very same intel that previous administrations had is something that I don't understand.

9-11-01 changed the way we look at nations that harbor WMD, terrorists or even terrorists plots.

"Curveball" was known to be a liar a LONG time ago. Instead, they used part of his lies to package the war effort and gin up support.

My caveat in this is that we attacked the wrong nation. We should've gone after Saudi Arabia and taken the head off the "serpent".
cbc812 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 01-31-2007
Posts: 4,222
C'mon TG. The whole thing reeked of bull**** from the start. It's not a question of omniscience, partisan politics, idealogy, or anything else. Just basic common sense. The whole venture was "sold", badly, and when the sell job didn't go so well, we got the anti-American B.S. referenced above.

The mere fact that national leaders had to resort to that level of vitriol and insanity to ram this through was evidence enough that their "case" for war didn't hold water.
teedubbya Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
"But how did you personally "know" that the Iraq invasion was predicated on lies?
No one in congress knew, and the few countries who cried foul were proven to be in bed with Saddam to begin with."

I think it was pretty clear. Unfortunately proving it at the time was another issue. Prove the WMDs we say are there are not. Hans Blix was actually pretty compelling but if you didn't want to beleive him you simply didn't. Many folks fell into the beleiving what they wanted to beleive mode. In my case I wanted to beleive but it didn't add up. It was pretty clear at the time.
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
"The finger pointing at W...for acting on the very same intel that previous administrations had is something that I don't understand"

he acted on it. they didn't. *shrug*

teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Remeber... the rest the world was wrong or acting blindly in their own self interests.... we were simply going on facts.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,552
teedubbya wrote:
"The finger pointing at W...for acting on the very same intel that previous administrations had is something that I don't understand"

he acted on it. they didn't. *shrug*



Well, that's sheer hypocrisy!!!
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well, that's sheer hypocrisy!!!


no hypocracy involved. they were wiser. he is a dolt. There was no solid evidence. they didn't act. he did... based on BS.
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
teedubbya wrote:
"The finger pointing at W...for acting on the very same intel that previous administrations had is something that I don't understand"

he acted on it. they didn't. *shrug*




true... true...

here's a little something to refresh memories:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
DrMaddVibe Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,552
DrafterX wrote:
true... true...

here's a little something to refresh memories:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp



How dare you bring facts to the table!!!Applause
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Drafter... no doubt. the dems wrote a blank check and have no room to posture.


It was a bad move all the way around and Cbc is absolutely right.... to say so at the time was unamerican.
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The simple truth is the Bush was the decidernator. what I don't understand is the need not hold him and his admin accountable (and the congress for not excersizing their duty as a seperate but equal power and writing him a blank check.)
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