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Last post 21 years ago by rayder1. 18 replies replies.
Keeping up the RH in a humidor
joemar4 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2002
Posts: 87
I am going to let my newbie-ness show here. When I first got my humidor and broke it in, it maintained 71% RH on the Digital Hygrometer. Now it keeps going down slowly even though I checked and made sure the humidification unit was ok. One week at 70%, then next week at 68%, next week at 67%. Now it's at 66% RH. What do I need to do?? The humidor holds about 50 cigars and I have about 42 in there. Thanks in advance!!
CulleyJC52 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-25-2002
Posts: 369
Maybe the Humidor was never really cured before you started using it, might also put small flashlight in and turn off lights to make sure humifor is sealing properly.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
joemar4

the hygrometer is measuring humidity, not rh, which doesn't mean squat. you will see about a bunch of posts telling me i am all wrong.

are you using pg and distilled water?

are you adding distilled water?

did you calibrate your hygrometer to know what it is really reading?

are you using a commercial humidifier or did you make your own?

do you know how tight the cover is?

[email protected]
eze Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 1,748
Also..depending on where you live, as winter approaches the air will become less humid and you will find it more difficult to keep up the humidity. Try adding another humidification device. The one you have may not be enough.
xrundog Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Humidifiers don't last forever. Could be yours is beat. The first cheap rectangle I had lasted about 2 years. I like the Paradigm and Diamond Crown line. I have some of both. I think they will last pretty well. If you don't want to spend the cash, make one. Check the archives. Lots of help on the subject.
joemar4 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2002
Posts: 87
Eze, I think you might have hit on it. The weather here has gotten colder & colder over the past two weeks - about the same time I started noticing the RH going down. The temp in the humidor has also gone down and is maintaining 68F.from 71F two weeks ago.
I did the flashlight test and have a good seal, the hygrometer was calibrated,I am using distilled water/pg mix, using a commercial humidor only 3 months old. So I am guessing it has to do with the colder weather.....I hope. Keep the suggestions coming though!! Thanks!!
GranpaTex Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-25-2002
Posts: 32
remove all the cigars, send to me. The humidity will go up overnight.
Trust me this really works.
Charlie Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Here I go asking for slams!!!! It ain't that critical! Just stay between 68-74 and all will be fine! If you had a humidor devoted to maduros, then stay 65 to 68 since they do not do well in mid 70's!!! Calibration? Do they smoke the way they should>???? That is calibration!

Enjoy your experimentation with adjusting settings, calibrations, etc!!! It just isn't that critical!

Charlie
bassithound Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2002
Posts: 118
No slams Charlie, you are absolutely right. 70/70 is a good guideline, but I found that 65-70 made smoking the 'gars much more enjoyable. Better to be lower than higher.
THL Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 3,044
I keep mine at 65%. At 70% the cigars burn unevenly.
I smoke mostly maduros and I read on an earlier post that they like it a little drier. It works well for me.
Tag23m Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-25-2002
Posts: 26
So Rick correct me if I am wrong but a digital Hygrometer that says RH is not measuring relative humidity??
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
i'm sorry, i always called the humidity just that. you are correct it is rh, the amount of moisture in the box relative to the amount of moisture that can vbe in the air in the box.

i have learned the correct definition and i sit corrected.

here is a long articler that should be informative:

5.0a The "Variable Humidity Myth...

Many self-proclaimed "authorities" have been making a serious mistake of confusing moisture content with relative humidity lately. At least one well-known Cigar
distributor has added strength to this legend by distributing a table recommendinging different relative humidities at different temperatures. Don't fall for this "urban legend"! Cigars should be kept at 70% RH REGARDLESS of temperature or you WILL ruin them...
The modern myth of varying humidity with temperature is based on an entirely false premise. Cigars don't care about absolute moisture content. They need just enough moisture to keep the tobacco pliable, but not so much to swell it. This occurs at 70-73% REGARDLESS of temperature.

Tobacco should be kept at a relative humidity which just keeps the leaves pliable without swelling them. Since that pliability is based on the interaction of the cellular membranes with the air surrounding them, *relative humidity*, not absolute moisture content is what's important. This isn't chemistry, it's mechanics - on a cellular level.
Ideally, the correct point is 70-73% regardless of temperature. At 70% relative humidity (a measure which by definition is independent of temperature) cigar leaves become pliable without swelling. at 75% or higher, the cells begin to swell. at 68% or lower, they can become brittle. These points are regardless of the ambient temperature or the absolute moisture content.

Does it make any sense to a rational person to keep their cigars at close to 100% humidity at 60 degrees? Anyone living in cold climates can attest to the fact that at 60 deg, their cigars are perfect at 70%, and (as they would at any temperature) their cigars are prone to mold and swelling at humidities above 80%. Those living in the tropics will tell you the same thing - their cigars MUST be kept at 70% humidity at
storage temperatures of 80 degrees. According to "the table", those cigars should be at 50% humidity? I'll tell you what... If the humidity drops below 68%, your cigars will become dry and crack - I couldn't even imagine how badly dried out they'd be at 50%!

Try it yourself. The "logic" of varying RH with temp falls apart in the real world. Moisture content is NOT why we keep cigars at 70% humidity...

Here's a more scientific explanation debunking the myth of varying humidity from David E. Patton, Ph.D. at the Department of Physiology, UCLA School of Medicine... "There has been extensive discussion on A.S.C. concerning the effects of temperature on humidity and its application to proper cigar storage. Much of the confusion concerning these concepts comes from not understanding what is happening at the
molecular level. My goal is to explain some of the relevant concepts and then to put the concepts together in such a way as to give an intuitive understanding of how they relate to cigar storage.
Cigars are made from tobacco leaves. Tobacco leaves (like most plant material) consist primarily of carbohydrates and proteins. Protein and carbohydrate molecules contain many binding sites for water molecules. A certain proportion of the water binding sites need to be occupied by water molecules in order for the tobacco leaves to be adequately pliable, to burn properly and to age properly. So when we think
about humidity as it relates to cigar storage, the most relavent factor to consider is: are the correct proportion of water binding sites occupied? Water molecules bind to other molecules via hydrogen bonds. Van der Waals interactions also participate. This
applies to water bound to protein and carbohydrate molecules (e.g. tobacco leaves) or to other water molecules (e.g. liquid water). For the purposes of this discussion, water bound to tobacco leaves will be treated like liquid water.

Temperature is the main factor determining whether a water molecule will be more likely to be in either the gas or liquid (or bound) phases. This is because at higher temperatures, water molecules (like any other molecule) will have more kinetic energy. The more kinetic energy a molecule has, the higher its probability of being in the gas phase. This is because it will have sufficient kinetic energy to break out of the hydrogen bonds and Van der Waals interactions that would otherwise keep it bound. At lower temperatures molecules have less kinetic energy so when they collide with a carbohydrate molecule, for example, its kinetic energy is insuficient to break away from it. The important point here is that at higher temperatures, a water molecule is more likely to be in the gas phase and less likely to be bound. At lower temperatures a water molecule is more likely to be bound and less likely to be in the gas phase.

Another point that needs to be explained here is the concept of relative humidity. Simply stated, relative humidity is the ratio of the concentration of water in the gas phase divided by the maximal concentration of water the air can hold (the saturating concentration) at a given temperature. Air holds more water at higher temperatures. Therefore, if you hold the relative humidity constant and increase the temperature, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase will increase. If you think about this superficially you may think that because the concentration of water
molecules increases in the gas phase as you increase the temperature (holding relative humidity constant)that your cigars will become over-humidified. This is
WRONG. Remember, as you increase the temperature, the water molecules are less likely to be bound to the tobacco and more likely to be in the gas phase. Thus, to keep the same proportion of water binding sites in the tobacco occupied by water molecules, the concentration of water molecules in the gas phase must be increased when temperature is increased."

Again, cigars should be stored at 70 - 73% relative humidity, regardless of temperature. Period.

if you are still here, pretty complicated for nothing more than keeping your cigars, not too wet, not to dry.

qball Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-07-2002
Posts: 250
Thanks Rick, the info was great however, I have the opposite problem. I was away for a while, and a friend who was house sitting thinking they were doing me a favor added water every day to all 3 of my humidors, raising the RH to around 83% - 87%. When I returned I removed the humidification devices, but the humidity is going down very slowly. I live in the North East and keep the house around 68, which according to your article shouldn't make a difference. The question is, are my smokes already ruined, and if not is there anything else I should be doing. I can tell you, they are a bit hard to smoke right now. Sort of like smoking under water. Thanks in advance.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
qball

don't use the micro method, it is just a joke.

open the lid of the humidor for an hour or so a day, and stirr the cigars. i have a dozen laying on my table near me that were very wet. now that they have dried a little there much better. better too wet than too dry if you have to chose.

try not to chose.
Torpedo1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 04-08-2001
Posts: 4,768
There seem to be quite a few digital hygrometers on the market. Anyone have any suggestions on which one works best? In addition to a few analog hygrometer's I have purchased about 5 of the Reindeer Slim Line Digital Hygrometer's (If this is any indication as to how many Smokes and Humidors I have.) All have since been introduced to the garbage can. The reason being is the digital screen becomes extremely distorted after about 30 days. I have even replaced the batteries. I now rely on how the cigars feel as oppossed to actual RH. As my collection increases so does my concern for my investment. No I will not send them to anyone for safekeeping. Any suggestions??
qball Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-07-2002
Posts: 250
Rick, thanks again. I'll be franticaly stirring so I can eventually get to these smokes. I wish I lived in the desert where it was dry. I swear I'll never trust my humi's to anyone again. I'll let you know how long this takes.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Torpedo1

radio shack, about $25. buy one, calibrate it and move it from humi to humi every day or so, while whistling dixie.
xrundog Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I have a Don Salvatore mini digital. I like it fine. C-bid sells 'em. I agree, better wet than dry. Once they start unraveling you are doing damage control. If too wet, you just wait them out. It was pointed out to me that it takes a while to dry all the way through. Make sure and give them some time. Sometimes a new box of smokes will raise the humidity. I am currently working on a footlocker type "ageing box". My goal is to put no cigar to my lips with less than a year in the box. Of course you always have to try one of the new ones!
rayder1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Absolute agreement on the humidity. The lower end humidity allows the cigars to smoke better. The ones I kept at 70% drew hard and burned uneven. I dropped the humidity to 66-67% and have way better smokability. Heck, I lit up a cigar that was in a tube but out of the humidor for a month that drew well, smoked slow and perfect.

I think higher humidity is more critical to the well being of a cigar than lower humidity. Just not too low.
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