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Last post 21 years ago by eleltea. 13 replies replies.
When guns save lives
jjohnson28 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Friday, November 8, 2002

When guns save lives
Nov. 8, 2002 Orange County Register Editorial



One of the biggest fallacies of gun-control supporters is their idea that guns in and of themselves are an evil that needs to be wiped out. That idea motivates gun controllers to support any number of limitations and regulations geared toward reducing the raw number of guns in the public's hands.

But an attack in Laguna Hills recently shows how beneficial gun use can be, when used by potential victims protecting themselves against an armed attacker.

Dana Kiefer and her 10-year-old daughter, Hana, were at Ms. Kiefer's parents' house when Dana's ex-husband Eric Kiefer broke into the home wielding a hatchet. Mr. Kiefer had a history of drug abuse and of abusing Ms. Kiefer during their marriage. He had a restraining order placed on him to stay away from her.

The court decree didn't stop him from assaulting his ex-wife, and it certainly didn't stop him from breaking into his ex-in-laws' house, grabbing his daughter, then trying to force her to drink some form of caustic liquid, according to news reports.

Fortunately, Ms. Kiefer's boyfriend fatally shot Mr. Kiefer with a shotgun, thus ending a confrontation that could have cost five people their lives. It's the latest example of what John R. Lott Jr. calls the underreported story of citizens who use guns to protect themselves from criminals.

"When was the last time that you heard the national evening news reporting about a citizen using a gun to save lives?" Mr. Lott, author of "More Guns, Less Crime," wrote in a newspaper article. "Few realize that people use guns defensively to stop about 2 million crimes a year, according to national surveys."

That's an astounding statistic. In a sense, gun-controllers use a utopian argument for banning or limiting guns. They assume that if guns were eliminated, then people who would no longer be able to use them for evil. Therefore, there wouldn't be any need for average citizens to have guns to protect themselves and their families.

But guns will always be with us. There are millions of guns in the United States, so it's hard to imagine eliminating them all, especially from criminals.

Mr. Kiefer was attacking his ex-wife and daughter with a hatchet. Without guns, the attacker with the biggest knife or strongest physique would succeed. Guns are a great equalizer - which is why even some feminists are coming around to the pro-gun rights argument.

An Orange County judge told the Register that the Laguna Hills incident shows that some people who violate restraining orders need to be held in custody until a judge can evaluate their mental health.

That's a good point. But it's not enough. Innocent people shouldn't have to risk their lives and the lives of their loved ones by going unarmed and hoping the justice system will get its act together.

Guns can save lives. If you doubt that, think about what might have happened to Dana and Hana Kiefer had their household been unarmed.

What about this you anti gunners?Hmmmmmmmm
SteveS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
JJ, I've long been convinced that the fact that I CAN and MIGHT have a gun in my home serves to some extent as a deterrent ... a potential intruder must consider the possibility that he might be met with armed resistance.

If guns were not an option for law-abiding folks, that same potential intruder has far more free rein in opting to commit his crime.
cwilhelmi Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
That's why there's a loaded Sig .45 under my bed!! I hope I never have to use it on a person, but I won't hesitate if I need to!
joemar4 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-08-2002
Posts: 87
I was working at a check cashing facility part time. The job required you to carry a firearm. Being a licensed gun owner I thought here is a way for my license to make me a few extra bucks. While bringing out the paper garbage around the back of the shopping center, I noticed about 2 dozen lottery tickets that had been only partially played. While looking at them I had not noticed a young male coming upon me till he was about 10-15' away. He then spoke and told me he would take the tickets. He then said to give him my wallet. As he asked for the wallet he pulled a knife out (to make his point I guess!) Now, I carry my Beretta 9mm concealed (as required by NYS law) in a holster that fits in the small of my back. I told the dirtbag to take it easy and while he thought I was reaching around my back for the wallet, I instead grabbed my 9mm. When I came around with the gun and pointed it at him at point blank range, the look on his face was one I will remember forever. He had a total "attitude adjustment". Suddenly he was "just kidding" and he didn't want "no problems" Well, I informed him that it was to late and that he now had a BIG problem. Long story short, I restrained him with handcuffs and he was arrested and is currently serving time in a Long Island correctional facility. Thank God I had my gun. It felt so good to turn the tables on these dirtbag criminals!!

All the new gun laws in the world will do nothing to stop the criminals who by definition do not abide by the laws. It will only hurt you and I, the law abiding legal gun owner.

These kids know the law better than the police, they know what they can get away with or get ple-bargained down. You want to stop illegal guns? Make it a mandatory 5 year sentence if you get caught with an illegal gun. No 1st time offender crap, no plea bargaining, no parole, nothing, just a jail sentence. If these illegal gun holders know that if they get caught it's 5 years, no if, and or buts. That will make them think twice about having one. Hell if I know "hey if I get caught with this, I'm getting 5 years,no matter what I say or do and no lawyer in Gods good earth can do anything either", I'd sure as s**t think twice about having an illegal gun!!
eh3856 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-27-2001
Posts: 258
I couldn,t aggree with you all more.I am proud to say I have had my permit to carry a concealed weapon for over 20 years. As we all know if guns are outlawed the only people to have guns will be the criminals. I hope I am never in a situation where I will have to use it, but it is a comfort knowing that I have it. I would rather go to jail for shooting someone that is attacking me or my family and shoot them dead than have them go to jail for killing me.
GranpaTex Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-25-2002
Posts: 32
"...happiness is a warm gun..."
Rock & Roll Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2002
Posts: 23
amen
RknRmnd Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-16-2001
Posts: 407
Hi Guys, I'll tell you a story later on that will amke you a believer in owning a gun of your own. Just remember if you don't have one and they do, what happens to you?
rayder1 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Funny thing. I wear one all day long at work but I don't carry one around off duty. I used to. Man when I was a young pup, I felt like Dirty Harry. I felt that I better have my 'lil .38 with me everywhere...never know when some bad guy might want to take a shot at me.

Nowadays...I rarely carry off duty. Too much hassle trying to keep tabs on it (Is it showing? Did the clerk see it when I got my wallet out? Is it going to fall out of the holster on the floor in public? Can my kids or someone elses kids get to it?) Too much hassle. I have a home protection gun in the house, with a trigger lock, for the times my wife wakes me up at 0300 to check a noise in the garage/backyard/frontyard/living room/roof etc.

I put myself in way riskier positions at work every day then I ever do when I am off duty. And in 20 years of having a gun hanging off my hip 8-10 hours a day, I have probably had it out,pointed at someone, ready to go only a couple dozen times. Off duty, once.

One of the biggest factors to having a gun available is, do you keep it secured? If so, have you practiced in daylight, reduced light and pitch black darkness, how to get the lock off of it or to get it out of its place of safekeeping?

Have you gone to the range in the last 2-3 months and shot, at the very least, a box of ammo through it? Have you chosen a type and velocity of ammo to reduce penetration of walls. Have you practiced shooting in absolute darkness?

Jog in place for 2 minutes and try shooting accurately. This will mimic the stress you will feel when confronted with a life and death situation.

These are just a few considerations to mull over if you choose to have a firearm for protection and intend to keep at home.
GranpaTex Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-25-2002
Posts: 32
rader1, well said
rayder1 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
One last thought for having and keeping a gun. Everyone can say "Yeah" "Sure" "No problem". But really think this one over.



Are you willing to commit youself to killing someone?

Not to waffle, have second thoughts, not to delay. Are you willing to point your gun at another person, pull the trigger, and watch their life drain out in front of you...maybe even your wife /husband or kids?
drw2659 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 04-07-2008
Posts: 89
the job I do I must carry a gun ,but when I can I take it off .it can be heavy and gets in the way and pokes in the ribs some time ,I have people ask me all the time is fun to carry a hand gun I tell them no it is part of my job , it is just a tool I need . I be leave in the right to have guns .I worry to about some one who might get the gun away from me or the crew I work with and I would not be happy if that happened. I go back and remember time that I was glad I did have a gun on or who knows how things might have turned out . I say just be carful and use commonsense when you are wearing a side arm think first it will save you from getting in trouble
Teninx Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-24-2001
Posts: 138
I am completely and unhesitatingly prepared to shoot to death anyone who threatens my life or my family's life. I'm trained and prepared.
eleltea Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Rayder, if the choice is watching your wife and children's life draining out of them before you, maybe your agonizing decision would become a little easier. There are bad people in the world who will always have guns no matter what the laws are. They would feel a lot better knowing you didn't have one.
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