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Last post 12 years ago by wheelrite. 45 replies replies.
The Tinderbox is Smoldering
jetblasted Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Turkey warships to guard Gaza-bound flotilla

12:43 pm September 12, 2011

Tensions in the Middle East are rising rapidly, with Israel increasingly isolated both within the region and across the globe. The specter of military confrontation is increasing.

In Turkey, a NATO ally, Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said last week that Israel’s interception of a Turkish flotilla bound for Gaza last year would have been “cause for war” if Turkey had decided to take that course. This week, the Turkish press reports that military preparations have begun to ensure that such an incident doesn’t happen again:

“The Turkish Navy is planning to dispatch three frigates to the Eastern Mediterranean to ensure freedom of navigation and to confront Israeli warships if necessary, a Turkish news report said on Monday.

The Turkish frigates, to be dispatched by the Navy’s Southern Sea Area Command, will provide protection to civilian ships carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza, blockaded by Israel since 2007, the Turkish daily Sabah reported. If the Turkish warships encounter an Israeli military ship outside Israel’s 12-mile territorial waters, they will advance up to 100 meters close to the ship and disable its weapon system, in a confrontation that resembles dogfights in the Aegean Sea with Greek jet fighters, according to the report.”

Erdogan is visiting Egypt this week and may seek to include a trip to Gaza on his agenda, a step that would further inflame Turkish-Israeli and Egyptian-Israeli relations.

Last week, an Egyptian mob stormed the Israeli Embassy in Cairo while government security forces stood aside. Most embassy personnel have now been airlifted back to Israel, leaving just one Israeli diplomat behind and producing the biggest crisis in Egyptian-Israeli relations in a generation.

Things are no better on the diplomatic front, where Israeli isolation is also the long-term trend. The United Nations will be presented with a petition next week seeking recognition of the Palestinian Authority, over strong protests from Israel.Russia has announced that it will support such recognition, and an online poll of citizens of Germany, France and Great Britain has found “that in Germany 84 percent supported Palestinian statehood and 76 percent believed Germany should act now to recognize; in the U.K. the figures were 71 percent and 59 percent; and in France the figures were 82 percent and 69 percent respectively.”

According to the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, “France and Spain, along with the European Union’s high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, Catherine Ashton, are in advanced stages of negotiations with the Palestinian Authority over a “package deal” that will enable the 27 member states of the EU to vote at the United Nations General Assembly in favor of upgrading the PA to the status of a non-permanent member of the UN.”

The United States has announced that it would try to block such a resolution and would veto it if it came before the Security Council. As a result, Palestinian officials are likely to introduce the resolution in the General Assembly instead. The United States cannot use its veto in the General Assembly, but GA approval is also less consequential.

In an op-ed in the New York Times today, a top Saudi Arabian official and former ambassador to the United States warned of serious consequences to U.S.-Saudi relations if the U.S. opposes recognition of the Palestinian Authority:

“Saudi Arabia would no longer be able to cooperate with America in the same way it historically has. With most of the Arab world in upheaval, the “special relationship” between Saudi Arabia and the United States would increasingly be seen as toxic by the vast majority of Arabs and Muslims, who demand justice for the Palestinian people.

Saudi leaders would be forced by domestic and regional pressures to adopt a far more independent and assertive foreign policy. Like our recent military support for Bahrain’s monarchy, which America opposed, Saudi Arabia would pursue other policies at odds with those of the United States, including opposing the government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki in Iraq and refusing to open an embassy there despite American pressure to do so. The Saudi government might part ways with Washington in Afghanistan and Yemen as well. “

That wording — “Saudi leaders would be forced by domestic and regional pressures to adopt a far more independent and assertive foreign policy” — is not chosen lightly. Arab regimes under pressure from their own people cannot be seen as placating the Israelis, and might even be tempted to provoke a confrontation as a way of diverting attention from their own many failings.
DadZilla3 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
America being mired currently in the God-forsaken unstable political powder keg called the Middle East almost makes one nostalgic for the Cold War of the 1950's and 1960's, when all we had to concern ourselves with was the imminent threat of nuclear destruction at the hands of the Soviet Union.
wheelrite Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
The Jews should spark off a couple nukes...

problem solved...
HockeyDad Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
The Jews should spark off a couple nukes...

problem solved...




I think that is a possibility. Right wing extremists in the West Bank have now expanded their terrorist attacks to include Israeli peace activists and Shin Bet now says they've organized into terrorist groups.

Meanwhile Israel now has political turmoil with Turkey and Egypt which are long-time US allies.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
I KNEW it was a mistake to let them off the hook on the War on Terror!

That way if they were with the coalition they could take out their neighbors for lobbing missiles into their border.

Meh.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
HockeyDad wrote:
Meanwhile Israel now has political turmoil with Turkey and Egypt which are long-time US allies.



Turkey has been playing both sides for well over 20 years now...a fact we know that they cannot be trusted...we USE them!

Egypt? Yeah, when the radical muslims were under control...not anymore.
HockeyDad Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
Turkey is a member of NATO and the USA has stored nuclear weapons there for decades. They also played ball during the Iraq wars. Pretty trustworthy. They even have orders in for the new F-35 fighter...part of which will be built in Turkey!

All US arms sales to Egypt have been unaffected by Mubarak's ouster from power. 84 F-15 fighters are on the way and they just requested another 125 M-1 Abrams tanks.

I wonder who Israel will piss off next.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
HockeyDad wrote:
Turkey is a member of NATO and the USA has stored nuclear weapons there for decades. They also played ball during the Iraq wars. Pretty trustworthy. They even have orders in for the new F-35 fighter...part of which will be built in Turkey!

All US arms sales to Egypt have been unaffected by Mubarak's ouster from power. 84 F-15 fighters are on the way and they just requested another 125 M-1 Abrams tanks.

I wonder who Israel will piss off next.


Turkey was made a NATO member quid pro quo. Play ball and we let you into the Big Boy Club. They were a listening post for decades and a staging area. They never really liked us...we just paid well for the usage.

Selling arms...yeah...makes me want to watch that Nic Cage movie and get all happy. Besides now that the fighters have killswitches and the tanks have identified weaknesses...makes ya think we've got the next year's model in the wings with a theater to test them out in...see Seal Team 6 helicopter crash...which Obama completely bungled!

That doesn't make them friends...that just makes us greedy...see Military Industrial Complex.

That needs to be gutted.

Israel can just sit there and do nothing and piss off the radical islamofascists!Frying pan
rfenst Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
HockeyDad wrote:
Turkey is a member of NATO and the USA has stored nuclear weapons there for decades. They also played ball during the Iraq wars. Pretty trustworthy. They even have orders in for the new F-35 fighter...part of which will be built in Turkey!

All US arms sales to Egypt have been unaffected by Mubarak's ouster from power. 84 F-15 fighters are on the way and they just requested another 125 M-1 Abrams tanks.

I wonder who Israel will piss off next.


Now that Egypt is on the fast-track towards soured relations (and probably lost peace) with Israel, that's just great news to hear. A couple more intrusions or attacks into Israel from Egypt's long Sinai border will do wonders for both countries. Right now, it looks like Egypt may get to test its new arms pretty soon... if they are delivered in time.

In the meantime, Israel's Navy is already off the coast in the Red Sea to deter/counter-attack should there be any additional cross-border incursions from Egypt. Ironically, this border is rather similar to the touted portion of Palestine that could make Gaza and the West Bank contiguous. When a country they are at peace with (Egypt) doesn't or can't prevent that border from being used for attacks against Israel, what are the Israelis supposed to do in their border negotiations with the Palestinians? Presume everything will work out well while its other decades long peace is falling over the cliff? Not good at all for anyone.

As to Turkey, their current tiff with Israel hasn't, to my knowledge, impaired commerce between the two. That, rather than saber rattling, will be the cue that something is truly wrong. However, Turkey shouldn't underestimate Israel's willingness (not necessarily the ability) to strike as it sees fit. It has happened before and will again. Likewise, Israel shouldn't underestimate Turkey either. Stupidity may very well rule the day. Keeping arms out of Gaza for the time-being, would be best for Israel- and probably Egypt, the West Bank Palestinians and the rest of this tired world too.

The idea of socio-political stability anywhere in the Middle East is a joke. The idea of real peace there is nothing but an(idealistic) sham.
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Selling arms...yeah...makes me want to watch that Nic Cage movie and get all happy.



Good movie!

There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?
HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:
When a country they are at peace with (Egypt) doesn't or can't prevent that border from being used for attacks against Israel, what are the Israelis supposed to do in their border negotiations with the Palestinians?


Egypt's Sinai desert is completely demilitarized as a requirement of the Egypt-Israel peace treaty. Israel won that part of the negotiation completely.


rfenst wrote:
However, Turkey shouldn't underestimate Israel's willingness (not necessarily the ability) to strike as it sees fit. It has happened before and will again.



I don't think anyone underestimates Israel's ability, willingness, and even desire from some elements to attack anyone anywhere. Yes, Israel probably would attack a NATO country.
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
HockeyDad wrote:
Egypt's Sinai desert is completely demilitarized as a requirement of the Egypt-Israel peace treaty. Israel won that part of the negotiation completely.





I don't think anyone underestimates Israel's ability, willingness, and even desire from some elements to attack anyone anywhere. Yes, Israel probably would attack a NATO country.


Demilitarized with the responsibility to keep non-Egypt attackers away from the boarder, which I am certain Israel must be patrolling on its own side. And, since when can Israel or any of the Arabic speaking countries truly keep their word?

Yeah, they probably would attack Turkey if they felt they were provoked, at risk and thought they would get get away with it. Bibi's reputation is not that of a dove and I wouldn't doubt his willingness to go "all in", rational or not. remember he too believes G-d is on his side.

Who do you think will bear the most pressure from NATO? Israel- not to "attack"; or Turkey- not to "provoke"? Remember, one NATO country being attacked requires the others to come to military aid. Can you see the U.S., Britain, France and some others striking or battling with Israel? I can't, unless there is such a tragic turn of events that they consider it an issue of self-defense.

Perhaps NATO will declare Turkey's ships exempt from the ZNATO Treaty. And, we all saw how all of NATO contributed and stuck together with resources in Libya. Sorry if I seem pessimistic, but I see some dark skies ahead.







BTW, are you in-town? I may need a big favor today.)
HockeyDad Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:
Demilitarized with the responsibility to keep non-Egypt attackers away from the boarder, which I am certain Israel must be patrolling on its own side. And, since when can Israel or any of the Arabic speaking countries truly keep their word?




Egypt has police there. Israel killed a bunch of them a couple of weeks ago. Israel expressed regret but did not apologize and then their embassy in Cairo got trashed and run out of town.

I would agree that Israel and the Arabic speaking countries are not particularly trustworthy. Egypt has been on the better end of that spectrum and Saudi I would consider duplicitous. Meanwhile Turkey is not arab or Arabic speaking. They speak Turkish.

There would be no issue with Turkey if Israel apologized for attacked the peace activist convoy and made restitution for the Turks that were killed. Turkey gave them months to apologize but they wouldn't.

Two incidents were Israel cannot bring itself to apologize for killing people. Now it is two full blown crises. Wonderful.


(Yes, I'm around this week)

HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:

Who do you think will bear the most pressure from NATO? Israel- not to "attack"; or Turkey- not to "provoke"? Remember, one NATO country being attacked requires the others to come to military aid. Can you see the U.S., Britain, France and some others striking or battling with Israel? I can't, unless there is such a tragic turn of events that they consider it an issue of self-defense.

Perhaps NATO will declare Turkey's ships exempt from the ZNATO Treaty. And, we all saw how all of NATO contributed and stuck together with resources in Libya. Sorry if I seem pessimistic, but I see some dark skies ahead.




Israel and Turkey won't get into a shooting match. Both will be under massive pressure not to escalate because the end result must be either the end and failure of NATO or the end of Israel. I do expect economic relations to grind to a halt.

There is a lot of power broking and muscle flexing going on right now between Turkey (turks), Egypt (arabs), Israel (jews), and Iran (persians) for dominance in the region. Israel's dominance is ending because the status quo has changed. Nobody listens to the USA anymore because we've been in bed with Israel and are not impartial. Russia has only marginal influence and is fine with that level of commitment/entanglement.

I have no doubt that of those power brokers, the ones with the finger on the trigger ready to start the glorious war is Israel. (unless they are told that the USA is not right there with them with manpower and material)
jetblasted Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
When Turks can’t get respect from Europe, and then climb into bed politically with losers like Iran and Syria, they blame Israel.
rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,349
HockeyDad wrote:
Egypt has police there. Israel killed a bunch of them a couple of weeks ago. Israel expressed regret but did not apologize and then their embassy in Cairo got trashed and run out of town.

...

There would be no issue with Turkey if Israel apologized for attacked the peace activist convoy and made restitution for the Turks that were killed. Turkey gave them months to apologize but they wouldn't.

Two incidents were Israel cannot bring itself to apologize for killing people. Now it is two full blown crises. Wonderful.

....




I think it is way too simplistic to blame the embassy destruction and deteriorated relations with Turkey on the killings, justified or not, excusable or not. There is a hell of a lot more to it than just that. And, I am sure we don't know everything either. None of this is a justification or excuse, but making it all that simple is wrong. I truly believe that even if apologies had been made, the same crap would be going on, perhaps just in different ways.


( I have access to several serious series of big-time speakers and political panels that might interest you. If you are want to come, just let me know. iwill forward the e-mail to you.0

HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
jetblasted wrote:
When Turks can’t get respect from Europe, and then climb into bed politically with losers like Iran and Syria, they blame Israel.




Interestingly enough, twice this year Turkey has intercepted arms shipments from Iran to Syria, seized the weapons, and reported it to the UN Security Council.

Turkey also stated they they would participate in a NATO operation to end the violent crackdown in Syria if it did not stop and Syria reinforced the border as a result. Turkey is calling for regime change in Syria and Iran is backing the regime.

This doesn't really sound like being in bed with each other politically.

HockeyDad Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
rfenst wrote:

( I have access to several serious series of big-time speakers and political panels that might interest you. If you are want to come, just let me know. iwill forward the e-mail to you.0




Sounds good....Is it Sarah Palin?!!!!
wheelrite Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
I think that is a possibility. Right wing extremists in the West Bank have now expanded their terrorist attacks to include Israeli peace activists and Shin Bet now says they've organized into terrorist groups.

Meanwhile Israel now has political turmoil with Turkey and Egypt which are long-time US allies.


Turkey is no longer a US ally. They have relented to the radicals,no longer a secular state the same with Egypt...

Israel should do whatever is needed to survive,,,
HockeyDad Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
Turkey is no longer a US alley. They have relented to the radicals,no longer a secular state the same with Egypt...

Isarael should do whatever is needed to survive,,,



You made all that up contrary to reality. The USA has enough enemies already without creating them out of thin air.

Turkey is a member of NATO. It is a secular state. We have a US Air Force base there. There are more US military personnel stationed in Turkey than in Israel.

SURPRISE!
wheelrite Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
You made all that up contrary to reality. The USA has enough enemies already without creating them out of thin air.

Turkey is a member of NATO. It is a secular state. We have a US Air Force base there. There are more US military personnel stationed in Turkey than in Israel.

SURPRISE!


Obviously you aren'nt aware with what is happening in Turkey,,,

ask the Kurds...
wheelrite Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119

HD,,
read and learn..

-
The Washington Times

It should come as no surprise that Turkey - while attempting to absolve itself of blame for the aggressive use of a flotilla to deliver supplies to the Hamas enclave in Gaza - is again the hub for a new effort to resupply the terrorist group (“Flotilla report clears Israel; new blockade break planned,” Geopolitics, Monday).

In contrast to the previous Turkish government, which considered Israel a friend, the current regime under Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has turned virulently anti-Israel with its support not only for Iran, but Hezbollah and Hamas.

HockeyDad Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
Obviously you aren'nt aware with what is happening in Turkey,,,

ask the Kurds...



The Kurds will tell you everything I wrote is true. They will also tell you they don't like Turks, don't like Iraqis, and want to set up their own country. If you dig a little further you will find out that a number of Kurdish separatist groups have been deemed to be terrorist organizations by the USA.

(You might want to be careful what you ask them!)
wheelrite Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
The Kurds will tell you everything I wrote is true. They will also tell you they don't like Turks, don't like Iraqis, and want to set up their own country. If you dig a little further you will find out that a number of Kurdish separatist groups have been deemed to be terrorist organizations by the USA.

(You might want to be careful what you ask them!)


well.
if my people were attacked with chemical weapons and constantly raided by Turks I doubt I would like them either.

You dislike the Kurds because the adore GWB,,

btw,,

why do you hate Israel ?
did you get a bad knish in Miami ?
HockeyDad Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
HD,,
read and learn..

-
The Washington Times

It should come as no surprise that Turkey - while attempting to absolve itself of blame for the aggressive use of a flotilla to deliver supplies to the Hamas enclave in Gaza - is again the hub for a new effort to resupply the terrorist group (“Flotilla report clears Israel; new blockade break planned,” Geopolitics, Monday).

In contrast to the previous Turkish government, which considered Israel a friend, the current regime under Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has turned virulently anti-Israel with its support not only for Iran, but Hezbollah and Hamas.





So you are denying everything I wrote because of an opinion piece from the Washington Times. You're from Texas so you aren't supposed to understand any of this. Let's start by keeping it simple......

Look up whether or not Turkey is a member of NATO.
wheelrite Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
So you are denying everything I wrote because of an opinion piece from the Washington Times. You're from Texas so you aren't supposed to understand any of this. Let's start by keeping it simple......

Look up whether or not Turkey is a member of NATO.


The Nato alliance with Turkey is nearly irrelevant now.
We'll be forced out of Turkey in short order.They used to want to be considered as part of Europe but with the collapse of the Euro Zone the zealots have assumed control...

You're not really the smartest person in the room,no matter how condescending you attempt to be.
HockeyDad Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
well.
if my people were attacked with chemical weapons and constantly raided by Turks I doubt I would like them either.

You dislike the Kurds because the adore GWB,,

btw,,

why do you hate Israel ?
did you get a bad knish in Miami ?




So are you defending the Kurdish terrorist groups? Kurdistan Freedom Falcons?....Kurdistan Workers Party? Not only are they terrorist groups but they are socialist/Marxist/Leninist. That's the bedfellows you just jumped in with.

Did you know that three days ago Israel's foreign minister stated that Israel may offer military aid to the Kurdish rebels to punish Turkey. Wouldn't it just be great with the USA funding 25% of Israel's military budget, Israel then takes that money and gives it to a terrorist group that attacks a USA/NATO ally? ...and you would excuse that?

I don't hate Israel but I do not blindly excuse everything and anything Israel does. With Israel, many people get stuck on the "you're either with us or you're against us and an anti-semite" mindset and are terrified to criticize Israel in any way for fear of the anti-semite police. Outside of the USA, this ploy has lost its effectiveness.
wheelrite Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119



Who’s Behind the Second Gaza Flotilla?


Within a few days, Israel will once again confront a flotilla of sea vessels designed to break Israel’s naval blockade on the Gaza Strip. But who are these people?

Ehud Rosen, a teacher at the Bar-Ilan University, wrote the following article for the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.

Rosen’s research pulls the curtain back on the “humanitarian” efforts of this second flotilla in just more than a year. He shows the main organizer is a radical Muslim group based in England:

"The second flotilla is coordinated by Muhammad Sawalha, a senior UK-based Muslim Brotherhood figure connected to Hamas. Many of the participating organizations can be directly linked with the Union of Good (UoG), a coalition of European charities affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, which in 2008 was designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S. Treasury for transferring funds to Hamas. The UoG was initiated by Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood on a global scale, shortly after the outbreak of the Second Intifada in 2000.”

The Muslim Brotherhood is closely aligned with radical leftist groups like the following:

“Other main organizers include the anti-Israel International Solidarity Movement (ISM), as well as far-left socialists from Europe and the United States. Many of the flotilla's main organizers have stated that its prime aim is to create provocations and harm Israel's image.”

This collusion between radical Islamist organizations and radical leftist groups has been called the “red-green alliance.” Rosen concludes that:

“ ... the flotilla is far from being a peaceful, humanitarian effort to support the Palestinians in Gaza. It should instead be seen as a major, pro-Hamas effort to delegitimize Israel by a "red-green alliance" of leftists and Islamists."

His article is well worth the read to see behind the facade of this "humanitarian" mission.


Hmmm?

Egypt ,Turkey(Nato Member LOl) and Muslim Brotherhood...

sound suspicious HD ?
HockeyDad Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
The Nato alliance with Turkey is nearly irrelevant now.
We'll be forced out of Turkey in short order.They used to want to be considered as part of Europe but with the collapse of the Euro Zone the zealots have assumed control...

You're not really the smartest person in the room,no matter how condescending you attempt to be.




So you just declare NATO irrelevant and that it will all fall apart! All you're going on is a prediction that everything I stated will one day be overturned.

I never said I was the smartest person in the room but face it, you couldn't find Turkey on a map and proved it!
wheelrite Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HD,,

obviously you are ignorant to the History of the Kurds..

wheelrite Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
So you just declare NATO irrelevant and that it will all fall apart! All you're going on is a prediction that everything I stated will one day be overturned.

I never said I was the smartest person in the room but face it, you couldn't find Turkey on a map and proved it!


NATO is irrelevant and has been for a long time.It sevres no real purpose now.Ask Libya..
HockeyDad Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
Who’s Behind the Second Gaza Flotilla?


Within a few days, Israel will once again confront a flotilla of sea vessels designed to break Israel’s naval blockade on the Gaza Strip. But who are these people?

Ehud Rosen, a teacher at the Bar-Ilan University, wrote the following article for the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs.

Rosen’s research pulls the curtain back on the “humanitarian” efforts of this second flotilla in just more than a year. He shows the main organizer is a radical Muslim group based in England:

"The second flotilla is coordinated by Muhammad Sawalha, a senior UK-based Muslim Brotherhood figure connected to Hamas. Many of the participating organizations can be directly linked with the Union of Good (UoG), a coalition of European charities affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood, which in 2008 was designated as a terrorist organization by the U.S. Treasury for transferring funds to Hamas. The UoG was initiated by Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood on a global scale, shortly after the outbreak of the Second Intifada in 2000.”

The Muslim Brotherhood is closely aligned with radical leftist groups like the following:

“Other main organizers include the anti-Israel International Solidarity Movement (ISM), as well as far-left socialists from Europe and the United States. Many of the flotilla's main organizers have stated that its prime aim is to create provocations and harm Israel's image.”

This collusion between radical Islamist organizations and radical leftist groups has been called the “red-green alliance.” Rosen concludes that:

“ ... the flotilla is far from being a peaceful, humanitarian effort to support the Palestinians in Gaza. It should instead be seen as a major, pro-Hamas effort to delegitimize Israel by a "red-green alliance" of leftists and Islamists."

His article is well worth the read to see behind the facade of this "humanitarian" mission.


Hmmm?

Egypt ,Turkey(Nato Member LOl) and Muslim Brotherhood...

sound suspicious HD ?




I didn't see any mention of Turkey in that! You made up a new enemy.

Look this up: Incirlik Air Force Base, Turkey

http://www.incirlik.af.mil/


(By the way, we store nuclear weapons there!)

HockeyDad Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
HD,,

obviously you are ignorant to the History of the Kurds..





Feel free to enlighten me! (But keep in mind a number of Kurdish groups are on the US list of terrorist organizations)
wheelrite Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
I didn't see any mention of Turkey in that! You made up a new enemy.

Look this up: Incirlik Air Force Base, Turkey

http://www.incirlik.af.mil/


(By the way, we store nuclear weapons there!)



Incirlik was established during the cold war,The Turks were terriffied of Russia.Those days are long past.
Turkey has degraded to a country overly influenced by The Muslim Brotherhood and their ilk..

They are no friend of America or Israel...
wheelrite Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
Feel free to enlighten me! (But keep in mind a number of Kurdish groups are on the US list of terrorist organizations)


So are the so called Palestinians you love.

The difference,
The Kurds have a valid claim to a recognized state.Hamas does not..
HockeyDad Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
Did you know that Turkey has Predator and Reaper drones that we sold them?! Yup, no friend of ours!

Someone told you that you've got a new enemy and you're "all in"!
HockeyDad Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
So are the so called Palestinians you love.

The difference,
The Kurds have a valid claim to a recognized state.Hamas does not..



So you support Kurdish terrorist organizations?

Personally, I do not support any terrorist organizations worldwide. Hamas is a terrorist organization and I don't see any sign of them ever renouncing that.
wheelrite Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
Did you know that Turkey has Predator and Reaper drones that we sold them?! Yup, no friend of ours!

Someone told you that you've got a new enemy and you're "all in"!



We also sold weapons to Mexican drug Lords,so what...
wheelrite Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
So you support Kurdish terrorist organizations?

Personally, I do not support any terrorist organizations worldwide. Hamas is a terrorist organization and I don't see any sign of them ever renouncing that.


whatever,,

you are so Pro Palestinan it's sickening.They're animals that the Arabs don't want either...
HockeyDad Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:
whatever,,

you are so Pro Palestinian it's sickening.



The funny thing is that isn't even correct but it's all you got. Enjoy the US-Turkish war! I'm just not going to buy into the idea that I have to hate everyone that Israel tells me to hate.
wheelrite Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
The funny thing is that isn't even correct but it's all you got. Enjoy the US-Turkish war! I'm just not going to buy into the idea that I have to hate everyone that Israel tells me to hate.


sweet dreams Akbar..
HockeyDad Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
Follow instructions to the letter and you will be awarded with Armageddon!
wheelrite Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
Follow instructions to the letter and you will be awarded with Armageddon!



I don't believe in Armageddon,,

The human filth will destroy each other in the Middle east. The Persians will decimate the Arabs,I'LL JUST ENJOY THE SHOW,,,
HockeyDad Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
wheelrite wrote:

The human filth will destroy each other in the Middle east. The Persians will decimate the Arabs,I'LL JUST ENJOY THE SHOW,,,



I think on all their report cards, the box that says "Does Not Get Along Well With Others" would be checked!
wheelrite Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
HockeyDad wrote:
I think on all their report cards, the box that says "Does Not Get Along Well With Others" would be checked!



agreed..
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